Comments on Co-op and the ignorant bigots

How would you like it Tim if someone deemed your left wing activites were deemed unacceptable and your were punished for it?
Your the most prejudiced person on this webboard. Your no different from Sierra.
Cooperators is B rated bank anyway.
eternal_damnation , 25.06.2005, 12:23am link
Thanks for letting me know Tim. I'll make a generous donation from my lottery winnings to Christian Voice ( I still work for fun).
Be careful what you announce in the future Tim.
Tim, you have to stop drinking and posting. It's half past midnight where you are, and you must have downed 30 kilkennys.
HOpe the red bull keeps you awake.

My brothers at Christian voice are going to be very happy soon.
I'll tell them on the cheque, this is thanks to Brother Tim.
eternal_damnation , 25.06.2005, 12:27am link
Sierra,CJ this is for you.
***************
"In other words, when the assumed evolutionary processes did not match the pattern of fossils that they were supposed to have generated, the pattern was judged to be 'wrong'.
A circular argument arises: interpret the fossil record in terms of a particular theory of evolution, inspect the interpretation, and note that it confirms the theory.
Well, it would, wouldn't it?" Tom S. Kemp,
'A Fresh Look at the Fossil Record', New Scientist, vol. 108, 1985, pp. 66-67
****************
There is no common ancestor. Get over it , and deal with reality gentlemen.

Read your bible, and you will know the truth. It hurts a lot (ask Brother Jeff,poor soul), but the truth will set you free.
eternal_damnation , 25.06.2005, 12:32am link
Nice one Co-operative :)

Christian Voice really pissed me off with that Jerry Springer Opera uproar, im not religious but i have to put up with songs of praise and other bad programming such as ALL reality TV shows, i dont want my license fee to go towards this but i recognise that other people want to watch these shows. I dont see why they cant recognise that the majority of the UK are not christian so have no problems with this show, they arent being forced to watch it, there are 4 other terrestrial channels to chose from.
It just shows their religion is dying when it cannot handle simple mockery.


e_d send all the money you want, its only going to buy Stephen Green a bigger house or a faster car, its not my money your wasting. Please stop with the crap about evolution being wrong, the truth has set us free, we are no longer constrained by your book of lies.
Dodge , 25.06.2005, 12:48am link
Wow. I just stumbled across this site during a Google search. It never ceases to amaze me how much bile and hatred some individuals can pour out over religion, Christianity in particular. More so even, it seems, than one could muster even if a loved one was brutalized or similar egregious affront was encountered. I mean, It's not enough for this individual (whoever owns this site) just to hate religion, or to say they hate religion, but he/she feels compelled to actually devote the time and energy to build a website and keep it updated purely as an altar to offer up their hate upon. This is more than most people would do for their greatest love. What could inspire this level of animosity, almost pathological in its intensity? My guess is fear and guilt. Nothing much on Earth will make a person angrier than to frighten them or make them feel guilty. It takes away that carefully constructed illusion of control and self-importance we so often enjoy coccooning ourselves in. This happens when one truly does, deep down, believe in God but chooses to rebel against Him. The very existence of religion and its place in the public eye are constant reminders to this person that he is turning his back on the Lord. Faithfulness to God and His commandments "cramps his style" "isn't cool" or "inhibits his pleasure". But the problem is, as I stated previously, he really does, in his heart of hearts, believe in God and the laws of God, and so he knows he has rejected Him and his soul is in mortal peril. Being reminded of this and made to feel shame and fear can really tick some people off, and what you wind up with is something like this website. All for vanity. All for the sick, temporary satisfaction of rebellion. At the risk of sounding patronizing, you know that Satan has a strong hold on you, don't you? You do know that, yet it is infinitely easier to be angry or indifferent than to admit your mistakes, admit your weaknesses and come home to God. I'm sincerely hoping that you do and soon, for the time is now. Let go of the anger and hatred. You will never know a more clean and peaceful feeling, my friend. I pray for you and send you my best wishes.
David , 25.06.2005, 2:37am link
i am set free. i threw your book of hatred and foul lies into the trash weeks ago. don't make me find another in my home. i can think of something to do with it, i have a fairly good imagination when it comes to disposing of hatred and lies. the fireplace is a rathre nice idea, but not original enough. maybe a paper shredder...

now to the topic at hand. i'm a little confused here, but it sounds as though someone doesn't like the bank becuase their teller might be gay or something. more hatred and predjudice absed off a religion filled with hatred and predjudice. when will the cycle end? i beleive there may be laws against discrimination in the workplace against others for being gay or jewish and the likes. i'd do the same thing as co-operative would, distance myself as much as possible from the ignorant protesters. i wouldn't want to be assocaited with these people.

if i choose the bible e_d, i'd be in a set of immoral shackles that i don't ahve as an atheist. the bible says to get to ehaven, kiss god's ass and do what he says, no amtter how many lives you may take. not worth it. i wouldn't kill anyone because a book says so. would you e_d?

[bible] t('-'t)
CJ , 25.06.2005, 2:42am link
e_d

Just to finish off the quote from Tom Kemp:

"Spearheaded by this extraordinary journal, palaeontology is now looking at what it actually finds, not what it is told that it is supposed to find. As is now well known, most fossil species appear instantaneously in the record, persist for some millions of years virtually unchanged, only to disappear abruptly - the "punctuated equilibrium" pattern of Eldredge and Gould. Irrespective of one's view of the biological causes of such a pattern (and there continues to be much debate about this), it leads in practice to description of long-term evolution, or macroevolution, in terms of the differential survival, extinction and proliferation of species. The species is the unit of evolution."

Hmm, doesn't really seem to be supprting creationism there, does he? Amazing what you can 'prove' by taking a quotation out of context, or indeed, neglecting to write the quotation in full
bogue , 25.06.2005, 4:44am link
And to comment on what David wrote - why is it that christians just cannot accept that some people might not believe? It is this sanctimonious "no, deep down you really do believe in God, you're just denying it" attitude that really, really hacks me off.

I especially liked the bit where you say "at the risk of sounding patronizing...", don't worry, you did sound very patronizing, but at least you are in good company, that is, every other christian the globe.
bogue , 25.06.2005, 4:51am link
David said:
"I just stumbled across this site during a Google search."

(Yep, type "religion is bullshit" and this site is first on the list. Imagine that. What exactly were you looking for?)

"It's not enough for this individual (whoever owns this site) just to hate religion, or to say they hate religion, but he/she feels compelled to actually devote the time and energy to build a website and keep it updated purely as an altar to offer up their hate upon."

(It's called free speech. Don't you just love it?)

"What could inspire this level of animosity, almost pathological in its intensity?"

(Well, duh....religion perhaps?)

" Nothing much on Earth will make a person angrier than to frighten them or make them feel guilty."

(Pretty much sums up most organizied religious factions.)

"The very existence of religion and its place in the public eye are constant reminders to this person that he is turning his back on the Lord."

(Or they're a constant reminder that it's the 21st century and superstitions are still alive, and maybe Tim is fed up with it.

See his intro at: http://www.religionisbullshit.net/intro.php)

"Faithfulness to God and His commandments "cramps his style" "isn't cool" or "inhibits his pleasure"."

(Speculation, you don't know what Tim thinks, and neither does your imaginary friend.)

"But the problem is, as I stated previously, he really does, in his heart of hearts, believe in God and the laws of God, and so he knows he has rejected Him and his soul is in mortal peril."

(B#\\sh*t, see above. You don't know what anyone believes except yourself. Of course Tim probably knows he's doomed to an eternity in a burning Hell for not kissing all-loving god's narcissistic ass, just like the rest of us heathens, told to us by "True Christian ®"'s all the time.)

"you know that Satan has a strong hold on you, don't you?"

(Your kidding. No way. Satan, that imaginary being with horns and cloven feet, etc. Probably. Yeah. Of course. <satanic mode on> Nos diligo vos Satanis, oh powerful one keep us deluded into not believing.<satanic mode off> Like I said, yeah. As a side question, why is it that some "True Christian ®"'s seem to think that atheists are devil-loving, child-sacrificing satanists? Seriously, some really have called me something along those lines.)

"You will never know a more clean and peaceful feeling,"

(I know it wouldn't work for me. I get that feeling from other things in life.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 25.06.2005, 5:52am link
yeah, david is ok. one of the reasons david i don't follow this god person/thing is because a good deal of his followers are unfortunately like e_d. they claim to have a loving god and that they themselves are kind people, when they have the emotional (and mental capacity for learning) or a four year old.

i am sorry to say david that as atheists not only do we not beleive in hell (there goes your best and only scare tactic, out the window) but that we do not beleive ins aatan. i will educate you right now taht satan was stolen actually from pagan religions. the horned god represented nature, and when witches were imtimidated into serving the supposedly good church, they secretly decorated their own gods into the church during construction so they could worship their gods under the christians noses without fear. one day, when the numbers were dindling, some dude found this horned god, got his homies together and decided to sue it as a scare tactic.

i do not follow this god thing because he is not a very loving person as all his automatosn make him out to be. he has killed millions, supports the idea of rape, demeans women, beats and kills children, and best of all, the supposedly perfect eing has a habit of lying and emotional problems.

time to oepn your eyes david (sorry for the harshness) but this is the 21st century, christianity isn't alone, and ever since the freedom of speech, alot of other religions and the oppresed are looking for revenge. i would, our technology could be years ahead of our time if it weren't for the churchs intervention (can anyone say "goodbye" to AIDS? no they can't sadly)thanks to christianity we got hitler and the KKK and neo-nazis. way to keep the world together.

i will not worhsip a women hating child beating emotionally controlled lying power hungry ego freak (i always write this)

one more thing david: if you got married, and your wife gave birth to a baby girl (what else! ok, a boy, but you get what i mean) would you considder your wife unclean and untouchable for twoweeks? it says so in leviticus she's unclean. i say screw that.

i just escaped the shackles of an oppresive hateful violent religion david, called christianity, and i am not about to go kiss gods ass and blindly obey his cruel laws.

besides david, do you honestly think that anyone here, including yourself is deserving of heaven or hell? are you, a mortal flawed human being (we all are) who has at some time or another comitted cruel atrosities be deserving of eternal paradise? eternal torture? i think not. no one is.

and david, if you say we keep this website up out of fear and guilt, why the fuck were you doing a google search for it? gonna get your sack of heathens so you can go to heaven?
CJ , 25.06.2005, 6:29am link
Hi bogue,

It seems that all the creationist/IDer sites can do is a thing called "quote mining", probably due to their familiarity with using whatever verses out of the buybull they use to proclaim their 'Flintstone' science, or 'morals' or "True Christian ®" values, etc to begin with. As to E_D's claim of no common ancestor, science has proven that fact (Fossils are no longer the only way to prove evolution). The cretinist 'scientists' just are a little behind the times when it comes to disputing the fact of evolution, evolutionary bioligists are using cutting edge DNA sequencing techniques to date all of life's 'ancestors' back to the origin of life. It seems that the creationists numbers get smaller with every fact that advancing technology verifies regarding evolution.
AccursedAtheist , 25.06.2005, 6:34am link
Ok,

First of all, I think the bank is wrong. If the point is DIVERSITY then I think EVERYONEs views should be included. You are not celebrating diversity by excluding people who do not celebrate diversity.

In the US, the United Way (a big charity) stopped giving money to the Boy Scouts of America because they did not allow gay leaders. Some charity.

Now, on to E_D and his failed scientific argument.

Let me explain it this way.

I have a bolt in my hand. I think its a 3/8 in bolt.
To test this I will try to fit a 3/8 inch nut on it.

Hmmm....does not fit.

Ok, I try a 5/8 nut. Hmmm.....still does not fit.

On I go. I try 1/2, 7/16ths, 9/16th, 3/4,....none fit.

Maybe its metric. Maybe its stripped. The point is....

JUST BECAUSE I HAVEN'T FOUND A NUT THAT FITS DOES NOT MEAN THE THING IN MY HAND IS NOT A BOLT.

Just because we don't have all the evolution answers worked out yet does not mean that an invisible man is watching everything we do.

There is no god. (You jackass).

D
Sierra [Email], 25.06.2005, 6:39am link
Hi CJ,

"gonna get your sack of heathens so you can go to heaven? "

I like that! That's pretty funny. It's always amazed me how the most hardcore "True Christian ®"'s are always the ones trying to save souls the easy way - by proselityzing door to door, or on TV, or the internet, but never do the dirty work directly. Like helping the hungry or homeless in a major urban centre, or looking after orphans, assisting the sick, etc. No, they wouldn't want to get their hands dirty now would they? Knocking on a few clean suburban middle-class neighbourhood doors should get them a front row seat on judgement day though.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 25.06.2005, 7:09am link
Hi Sierra,

Maybe to make it fit the cretinists could use a hammer instead of a wrench, like that 'fossilized' one they found. See link below.

For a laugh at the chretinists check out :

http://paleo.cc/paluxy/hammer.htm

Also check out the rest of the debunking at the site. The site's author does a good job hacking apart the "dino/man" alledged footprint fossils. F#cking 'Flintstone' science.

I agree there is NO god, and no need to make one up, nor make up B#\\shit to disprove the fact of evolution. In the court of science, they perjure themselves constantly.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 25.06.2005, 7:14am link
cj you are full of shit!!!! you read GAY into everything,but then again you are just a child.. a little word of wisdom " Don't bend over"
MAD MONK , 25.06.2005, 3:33pm link
Tim have you ever been to the USA? you talk against us all the time, as if there are people running around screaming biblical Quotes!! This is what is total bullshit!! and by the way there is more beauty in the sierra mountains then in your whole Ilse...
MAD MONK , 25.06.2005, 3:37pm link
also beware while you are screaming about the christians in your country, the population of Islamists is growing rapidly and they will attack you sooner or later and who will you turn to for help? oh yes the good old USA!!!!
MAD MONK , 25.06.2005, 3:41pm link
and for you sierra, I can't believe someone living in those beautifull mountains can deny Gods Exsistance.. Forget all the religous bullshit and FEEL that cool breeze!!! take a deep breath,that breeze IS the breath of GOD!! and you just realized it!! Wish I was standing their with you only been there a couple of times!!
MAD MONK , 25.06.2005, 3:50pm link
im just using the terms to get the point across. im straight. it's kinda like being an atheist and saying "holy crap" you know?

and apparently mad monk, you have never been to california. there's alot of bad religous crap going on there, biblethumpers, predjudice, and of course, hate crimes. my friends get kicked at a public high school left and right for either supporting gay rights or for being wiccan. i could not helo but to reaize that a good deal of these people were wearing "faith factor" T-shirts or giant bed posts with a man stapled to 'em (jezus)

not all chrisitans are bad, i am in fact friends with a good deal of them. they never bring god into a political conversation and they don't give a shit that am an atheist. it's the people who run around with bibles screaming to little kids five minutes late to church: YOU GO TO HELL! YOU GO TO HELL AND DIE! that kinda stuff jsut realy gets me angry. not to mention goerge bush and billy graham are abhorred by the thought that saying prayers in public schools to the christian god may be removed. kinda scary that they get so worked up over these things...

oh yes, let us fear the growing islam population as we fear the growing atheist, buhddist (i can never spell that right!) jew, and pagan population! fear them! the buhddist are massing for an attack jut like the propaganda bullshit Jack Chick vomits out! oh wait, jack is a predjudiced SOB who can't stand the idea of more then one god in his life! why listen to him? his stories are inaccurate as the next guy who says we should fear the jews, the have anthrax bombs! very loving god indeed. our world is growing, no shit there's going ot be more people, all with different ways of running their lives. i'm just tired of bible thumpers scaring/ abusing people into THEIR way of life.

i my self live in a very nice calm part of california (save for the bible thumpers that ran through the streets and the occasional gang war. just had a few murders a few month ago.) it's right now sunny, calm, birds are singing, i'm lsitening to music to fit the mood, and i think i'll go vist my wiccan friend later today with some other friends for D&D. yes, the sheer beauty of america can make one wonder about the existance of a god thing, but i somehow doubt that god made this.

all thing small and ugly, creatures short and squat, putrid foul gangrenous, god made the lot (monty python!)

yes it's a beautiful country, but i don't feel bound to worship god. in my mind, if this god thing existed, he isn't worthy of worship. look at all his followers, like the KKK and his inventions, like AIDs (never was a gay thing.) to much blood and torture for me to want to have any relations with this hating god.

and thanks AA. don't knwo where i got that, but it was kinda funny :)

later days, i'm gonna go get me a dragon head!
CJ , 25.06.2005, 7:53pm link
Mad monk, you have to forgive Tim, there is no way he has ever visited the US or Canada. He's arrogant and thinks he knows everything like his welfare collecting comrade Brother Jeff. American people are wonderful and I love visiting the US. The women in the sports bars are much friendlier than their canadian counterparts.
I can't stand the arrogance of some people in the UK.
Only an ignorant, uneducated person would make the claim America is a country full of fundementalists.
Tim, dodge, after you sleep off your drunken stupor, be aware and afraid of the growing Muslim population in your country. They don't take too kindly of someone putting down their religion. They have something called a "fatwa", ask Salaman Rushdie what that is.
I'd be very careful putting down their religon.
eternal_damnation , 25.06.2005, 8:11pm link
"One of the most specious analogies that cosmologists have come up with is between the origin of the Universe and the North Pole.
'Just as there is nothing north of the North Pole, so there was nothing before the Big Bang.'
Voila! We are supposed to be convinced by that, especially since it was Stephen Hawking who dreamt it up. But it will not do. The Earth did not grow from its North Pole.
There was not ever a disembodied point from which the material of the planet sprang. The North Pole only exists because the Earth exists-not the other way around."

EVOLUTION IS DEAD, DEAL WITH IT.
eternal_damantion , 25.06.2005, 8:13pm link
The "North Pole" is a concept created by humans to help them navigate and conceptualize the earth (something they could not see all of).
Its an imaginary axis (magentic or actual) on which the earth rotates. Actually its a lot like religion in that respect!!

When you say "there is nothing north of the north pole" which pole are you speaking of - magnetting north or true north?

Technically in each case there is something north of the other.

The earth formed from a dust cloud. The "poles" formed later.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 25.06.2005, 10:17pm link
Gentlemen,
I declare my victory over all of you.
I used to believe evolution and argue against the christians. Fortunately I had a very good friend who showed me the christianity is right.
If you open your mind and read the bible , you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

The choice is yours. You are doomed to make this choice. No running away or being neutral. Make the right choice. Choose Jesus, your eternal life depends on it. Don't be fooled, hell is real,and God is not mocked. He will not turn his back on sin. Hope to see you one day on the other side of eternity.


***************** "I myself am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially the extent to which it's been applied, will be one of the great jokes in the history books of the future.
Posterity will marvel that so very flimsy and dubious an hypothesis could be accepted with the incredible credulity that it has." Malcolm Muggeridge,
Well-known Journalist and philosopher. Pascal Lectures, University of Waterloo

*****************


I need to spend time saving people.
eternal_damnation , 26.06.2005, 12:26am link
e_d i am aware of the muslim population in my country, and am friends with alot of them. Just because they are of a different faith does not make them a threat to me or my way of life. They have just as much a right to be here as anyone else. Your going off the Al Qieda stereotype thinking every muslim is out to kill non-believers, well let me tell you that isnt true. If were going off stereotypes then what about christians in the middle ages torturing and hanging non-believers, are you going to hang me? should i be afraid of the christian presence in my country too ??
If your god was the one true god then you shouldnt have anything to worry about should you.


AHAHA e_d i now declare victory on you because you are blinded by faith and cannot see clearly.

*********************************
"There is no god" - Sierra, person off this message board who has the ability to think.

(look i can use quotes too)
*********************************
Dodge , 26.06.2005, 1:13am link
Declare your victory?

You are absolutely out of your mind.

The only thing you are victorius in is displaying what a small, frightened peasant you are.

I urinate in the face of your god-farce.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 26.06.2005, 3:02am link
Dodge,
"Sierra has the ability to think"? This is an oxymoron. If you read anything this ignorant, racist,right wing fascist writes, you will realize it's nonsense. Sierra should be hospitalized and quarrantined in a mental institution.
This idiot promotes genocide against people of islam or any religious faith. I'm shocked that you would quote or agree with this nut job. Go read the crap he (must be a man) writes. He is so out it, he always ends his statements with "there is no god" even whne talking to atheists.
ED makes more sense that Sierra.
Timnot4me , 26.06.2005, 4:58am link
Hey Sierra,
BITE THIS, i.e my middle index finger.

Does "D" at the end of your postings stand for "Dickhead"?
Timnot4me , 26.06.2005, 5:01am link
Hey Timnot...

I don't PROMOTE genocide. I'm simply stating that as the population grows it is probably going to come to that.

Then, in the grand tradition of religion, when you can't beat my arguments and have no proof of your silly beliefs, you resort to insults.

I'm sure 600 years ago you would have tried to put me to death (stoning? rack? burning?)in the name of your god.

The truly sad part is you won't live long enough to see your beliefs fail. Too bad.

As far as your finger goes, shove that up the ass of mr jesus-farce.

The D is my name . You can guess.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 26.06.2005, 5:17am link
there is too much testosterone here, "i declare victory"!!!why is it that men have to win at something and fight each other? there is also too much stereotyping going on here, mainly from E_D who thinks all brits are drunks which is like me saying all Americans are fat (been to orlando and must say alot were obese down there!) and all this about evolution/creationism= none of it is fact, just theory which has proof and crticism for both sides. in all honesty i don't give a flying crap how the universe began/didn't begin and what happens when we die. the only things which are 100% certain in our lives is we are all born and will all die! its what we do inbetween which counts. so if christians want to pray to jesus, let them, and let the rest of us get on with whatever were supposed to be doing! (oh, sorry E_D, am actually still abit pissed from last night, was on malibu not kilkennys!!!!!!!!)he he he!
uk girl , 26.06.2005, 12:49pm link
Tim not 4 me- what else was sierra supposed to bite if not your middle finger? ;-)
uk girl , 26.06.2005, 12:53pm link
I am a leftwing christian activist who belongs to a group that promotes equality, social justice, and human rights.
We promote the spirit of christ, not the religion of christ. We do not go door to door and try to convert people.
Sierra, thinks people like me should be nuked.
Timnot4me , 26.06.2005, 10:53pm link
Well said UK girl.
Never tried Malibu, but I have tried Guiness. Can't drink because I'm on nexium (purple pill for excess stomach acidity). I have dealt with brother ED types. Compared to Sierra, I'll take brother ED anyday. Sierra is scary, wouldn't want to go anywhere near him.
Timnot4me , 27.06.2005, 1:01am link
Sierra, D stands for dickfor brains.
You should be banned from this website, you nut!!!
Timnot4me , 27.06.2005, 1:03am link
David: "Wow. I just stumbled across this site during a Google search. It never ceases to amaze me how much bile and hatred some individuals can pour out over religion, Christianity in particular."--

Its a little lesson on "do unto others" that Jesus tried to teach you. Problem is, you have to be nice first.

Mad Monk: "also beware while you are screaming about the christians in your country, the population of Islamists is growing rapidly and they will attack you sooner or later and who will you turn to for help? oh yes the good old USA!!!!"

Hate to tell you this...in the good old USA, Islam is one of the fasting growing faiths, along with Atheism, Deism, and Witchcraft, while Christianity is steadily declining. And church attendance is even lousier...it was up for a while after 9/11, but when people found open palms but no words of comfort, they left...now attendence is lower than pre-9/11 stats. Sorry.

To E_D...So...when was the last time you saw a four-footed insect (one you haven't pulled the legs off of, that is), or a camel with hooves? How fast does coral run, and why does some run faster than others?

Timnot4me: "Sierra, thinks people like me should be nuked."

If you truly are a liberal Christian, then good. I hope you can wrestle your faith from the fundamentalist *&^#$@!* who are ruining your faith with their religion. But you were the one who made the nuke suggestion the other day, not Sierra. Its a diservice to yourself to make false accusations (and its against one of the ten commandments.)

UK Girl: "there is too much testosterone here, "i declare victory"!!!why is it that men have to win at something and fight each other?"

You already said it...testosterone. That's why the Hebrews say that women are closer to God, and the matriarchs are more powerful than the patriarchs...funny how they both look at the same book, isn't it?
Dropinin , 27.06.2005, 1:36am link
how the hell ahve you won anyhting but ym ever lasting loathing? you ahve done nothing to claim any sort of victory (it's not a fucking contest dumb ass)

i already claimed a sort of victory over "God" when i gave him the finger, kciked the bible i was given into the street,a dn watched a rather nice mercedes run it over. later that day, it rained. i'm very ahppy i am not bound by a set of rules that say anyone not like me is going straight to hell.

e_d, grab a paddle and go beat your children in your spare time, god commands you.

[Bible] t('-'t)

down with the hatred, no god, know peace
CJ , 27.06.2005, 2:24am link
Timnotforme...

I'll tell you why you should PROBABLY be killed.

When you say "I am a leftwing christian activist who belongs to a group that promotes equality, social justice, and human rights.
We promote the spirit of christ, not the religion of christ. We do not go door to door and try to convert people.
Sierra...."


First - you see this as a christian nation and feel that christian value should be the centerpiece of our political system. You want prayer in the schools but somehow manage to envision that as a christian prayer. As soon as I tried to open a meeting with an invocation to satan you would get all upset.

Second - your values on consumption and resources are liekly inconsistent with reality. You advocate more more more people with the idea that your loving god will provide for them. God forbid we have anything like abortion or any real means to reduce the population. You people are destroying the planet.

Lastly - you seek to force your views on others (banning lotter tickets, no alcohol on sunday) and a host of other "blue laws" to control MY behavior - someone who does not follow your silly faith.

Those are just my top three. I have many more. For instance, perhaps I don't want to hear your goddammed church bells ringing out all over town on sunday.

Worship as you will you silly idiot, but you are wasting you time.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 27.06.2005, 2:28am link
"If there were a basic principle of matter which somehow drove organic systems toward life, its existence should easily be demonstrable in the laboratory. One could, for instance, take a swimming bath to represent the primordial soup. Fill it with any chemicals of a non-biological nature you please. Pump any gases over it, or through it, you please, and shine any kind of radiation on it that takes your fancy.

Let the experiment proceed for a year and see how many of those 2,000 enzymes [proteins produced by living cells] have appeared in the bath. I will give the answer, and so save the time and trouble and expense of actually doing the experiment. You would find nothing at all, except possibly for a tarry sludge composed of amino acids and other simple organic chemicals.

How can I be so confident of this statement? Well, if it were otherwise, the experiment would long since have been done and would be well-known and famous throughout the world. The cost of it would be trivial compared to the cost of landing a man on the Moon.......In short there is not a shred of objective evidence to support the hypothesis that life began in an organic soup here on the Earth."
Sir Fred Hoyle,
British physicist and astronomer, The Intelligent Universe, Michael Joseph, London, pp. 20-21, 23.


Take that CJ!!!


ITS SIMPLE, EVOLUTION NEVER HAPPENED.
eternal_damantion , 27.06.2005, 3:52am link
IQ OF FRED HOYLE > (CJ + SIERRA + TIM + DODGE + MR.X) ^ 100.


GENTLEMEN, IT'S SIMPLE.
THERE IS NO COMMON ANCESTOR, AND EVOLUTION NEVER HAPPENED.
eternal_damantion , 27.06.2005, 3:54am link
Boy that was beautiful. I love the math too.

E_D is a genius.

I live in a town with a main railroad going though it. You hear trains all the time.

E_D would conduct his "experiment" by walking down to the tracks and looking both ways. If he did not see a train I'm sure he would declare that trains don't run on that line.

Run your "soup" experiment for about a billion years you shithead and by the time it is done its products can help you analyze the results.

There is no god. I piss on him.

D
Sierra [Email], 27.06.2005, 4:19am link
actually eternal dumbass, they did a similar expirement like the one you described. a man filled a beaker with gases and chemicals found on early earth to simulate earths early atmosphere, added electricity to simulate a lightning strike and waited. few weeks later, he found a sludge in the beaker filled with amino acids, like the stuff in your DNA. life explained in a bottle. literally. holy crap e_d, read a book that isn't adorned with a man nailed to a bedpost. even when i was ten i knew of the expirement.

no god required, just add sparks! tons of fun for the family!
CJ , 27.06.2005, 4:58am link
i love your math e_d. do note that if your equation was true, my IQ would not be high enough to use this keyboard i type away on right now. i have an IQ of 140 and love to learn. i am not a meat-headed jock who beats the crap out of his laptop to make it work, though the emotional maturity of both the jock and you are terrifyingly similar. you don't understand it, so you promptly beat the crap out of it till the dimmest flicker of intelligence in your mind suggests you may be doing something wrong. however, you e_d squash the thought that you may be wrong because it may hurt your feelings and mental stability, so you go and promptly start hooting and slamming objects like a monkey till something begins to register, and the cycle starts over. very similar indeed...
CJ , 27.06.2005, 5:06am link
and just curious e_d, wouldn't mr.x. kinda be on your side? he's a creationist (the loving kind i figure) or do you hate him because his method isn't violent enough?
CJ , 27.06.2005, 5:07am link
E_D,

Where in Hoyle's quote above does it say anything about evolution. Hoyle is talking about the origins of life NOT evolution. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. No matter how much you believe they are. Science doesn't state that the origin of life=origin of species.

Sir Fred was a brilliant astrophysicist, in fact he helped to develop the theory of stellar evolution and elemental synthesis in stellar novae, but he wasn't a biologist or paleotologist. He also thought life on earth might have come from aliens or alien civilizations ( so do the Raelian UFO cultists). He did say this regarding the EVOLUTION of life on earth, in the following quote I provided before, see

http://www.religionisbullshit.net/2005/05/its-number-is-six-hundred-and-sixty.php?show_id=111706019537431421#a353a3339616d


from his book on his hypothesis on how life on earth began(Capital emphasis added is mine);
"We are INESCAPABLY the RESULT of a long heritage of learning, adaptation, mutation and EVOLUTION, the product of a history which predates our birth as a biological species and stretches back over many thousand millennia.... Going further back, we share a COMMON ANCESTRY with our fellow PRIMATES; and going still further back, we share a COMMON ANCESTRY with ALL OTHER LIVING creatures and plants down to the simplest microbe. The further back we go, the greater the difference from external appearances and behavior patterns which we observe today.... Darwin's theory, which is now accepted without dissent, is the cornerstone of modern biology. Our own links with the simplest forms of microbial life are well-nigh proven." --Fred Hoyle & Chandra Wickramasinghe, Lifecloud: The Origin of Life in the Universe, p.15-16"

Notice, E_D the reference to "COMMON ANCESTRY"


COMMON ANCESTOR!
COMMON ANCESTOR!
COMMON ANCESTOR!
COMMON ANCESTOR!
Hoyle said it!
Hoyle knew it back in 1978 when he wrote this book! And today with cutting edge DNA sequencing techniques molecular and biological evolutionists are proving it.


In Hoyle's book Our Place in the Cosmos, on p.14 he says "The creationist is a sham religious person who, curiously, has no true sense of religion. In the language of religion, it is the facts we observe in the world around us that must be seen to constitute the words of God. Documents, whether the Bible, Qu'ran or those writings that held such force for Velikovsky, are only the words of men. To prefer the words of men to those of God is what one can mean by blasphemy. This, we think, is the instinctive point of view of most scientists who, curiously again, have a deeper understanding of the real nature of religion than have the many who delude themselves into a frenzied belief in the words, often the meaningless words, of men. Indeed, the lesser the meaning, the greater the frenzy, in something like inverse proportion."

Like you say E_D he's the greatest scientist of all time. I said it before, I AGREE, when he describes creationists, at least.

And by the way E_D, I AM right now SMARTER than Sir Fred Hoyle, seeing as he's been dead a couple of years now. (I guess your equation that compared his IQ to CJ's + SIERRA's + TIM's + DODGE's + MR.X's is now falsefied along with your view of evolution, since they too are smarter than Hoyle is now) A few years back though it'd be no contest with all due respect, he was a great thinker, always imaginative and entertaining.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 27.06.2005, 6:29am link
Do you think I will go to hell if I order one of these t-shirts?

See :

http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=494

AA
AccursedAtheist , 27.06.2005, 6:32am link
Sierra your wrong! Sorry there hasn't been billions of years. With an infinite amount of a time a monkey or series of monkeys can type out the webster's dictionary. It's ok Sierra, just create enough time for your pathetic experiment.
One thing that delights me is how you guys continue to attack the truth. You know the truth , it's harsh, but the truth is the truth.
BIBLE = ULTIMATE TRUTH.

SIERRA's IQ = -100.
eternal_damnation , 27.06.2005, 11:33am link
"THERE IS NO COMMON ANCESTOR"

Kind of puts the whole "Adam and Eve" and "Noah and his son's only survivors" thing out in the cold, doesn't that E_D? Or, did you forget those portions of the Bible? Kind of like...forgetting that Coral don't run....

And, we'll go ahead and play the quote game:

"A major function of fundamentalist religion is to bolster deeply insecure and fearful people. This is done by justifying a way of life with all of its defining prejudices. It thereby provides an appropriate and legitimate outlet for one's anger. The authority of an inerrant Bible that can be readily quoted to buttress this point of view becomes an essential ingredient to such a life. When that Bible is challenged, or relativized, the resulting anger proves the point categorically."-- Bishop John Shelby Spong, "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism"
Dropinin , 27.06.2005, 12:10pm link
e_d

Could you respond to AccursedAtheist's comments about about Fred Hoyle and his opinions regarding evolution?

I, along with others, would be fascinated to know what you think, seeing as how he is a scientist you have quoted on numerous occasions but seems, according to the quotes above, to hardly be in favour of creationism.

Thanks in advance.
bogue , 27.06.2005, 12:23pm link
Dropinin;
What is your point? I live near Dearborn, Mi. The largest Arab population in the US, and believe me I know how the population is growing!! that doesn't change the fact that its growing in Britian just as fast!! You say you have Islamic friends?? The Koran states that you should die if you don't follow what is said within its pages, your so-called friends will sacrifice you to save their own skin.. With friends like that you don't need enemies!!
MAD MONK , 27.06.2005, 2:59pm link
e-d
If God is the all in all, the alpha and Omega, then who is being damned?? damnation is an Illusion!! It does not exist in the MIND OF GOD!! it is a human idea, that sits at the core of the belief in separation!! The Father of Rightousness!! after all you only condemn those who are wrong!! (in your opinion) this is what happens when you try to percieve God instead of just observing!!
MAD MONK , 27.06.2005, 3:25pm link
also please find me a statement of truth in the OLD TESTAMENT!! The believers of the old testament are the ones who tried to kill Jesus, but they could not!! Read the teaching of Jesus and put the rest in the bathroom where it belongs! Death is an Illusion!! only life exists!! and that my friend is the CORE of CHRISTS teachings
MAD MONK , 27.06.2005, 3:34pm link
Intellectual honesty would compel you to consider the following:

Take Belief C and Belief H. Belief C and Belief H are at odds for various reasons (conflicting views of the moral condition of life). Belief H actively defames the teachings of C through speech and practice. Belief C proclaims the fallibility of Belief H. Neither C nor H would have much to do with one another, except that H would never show compassion toward C because of its criticism of H; however, C would show compassion and care while proclaiming what it believes is true about H. Institution X, which purports to be "neutral," takes a position that C is discriminating against H.

What can the mechanics of Institution X's decisionmaking process possibly be? They are engaged by a superficial concept of discrimination which amounts to "criticism" or simple exercise of right of private association. Institution X is therefore not neutral; it is ignorant. It has been persuaded to interpret false law in examining the nature of prejudice.

Having a moral opinion and expressing it; even disassociating oneself on the basis of it from some people is not prohibitable discrimination. The point of anti-discrimination law is not to prohibit people from making decisions about their life, who they associate with, or from examining the partitions between mortal truth and error. The point of anti-discrimination law is to prevent false and superficial forms of dissection which would wrongly separate or merge things which have no mral basis for discrimination. However, there is a case to be made here for right discrimination.
intellectual advocate , 27.06.2005, 5:17pm link
i will agree with mad monk on one thing, hell was invented
(actually made very unfriendly) in the dark ages to scare the shit out of pagans and other non-chrisitans into beleiving. soon people only went to church as one would nowadays watch a scary movie to be scared.

and why are we still arguing about this? it's clear the other side (depending on yuor point of veiw) is not going to yeild, let's try to get back to the main topic of this thread.

oh, and e_d, the truth of the bible is that we're made of mud :) load of bullshit :)

and intellectual advocate does have a good point there.
CJ , 27.06.2005, 11:35pm link
I dearly wish we could find hell. It is supposed to be festering in the bowels of the earth and if we could locate it we would have an EXCELLENT source of geo-thermal energy that would (apparently) last for eternity.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 28.06.2005, 12:06am link
Bogue,
"'Fact' is a difficult word. I would never say 'the fact of evolution', but good biologists continue to say it.
I think this stems from their poor understanding of theory, from habit, and from their scientific fundamentalist outlook on the topic."

Aristotle believed that decaying material could be transformed by the 'spontaneous action of Nature' into living animals.

His hypothesis was ultimately rejected, but Aristotle’s hypothesis has been replaced by another spontaneous generation hypothesis, one that requires billions of years to go from the molecules of the universe to cells, and then, via random mutation/natural selection, from cells to the variety of organisms living today.

This version, which postulates chance happenings eventually leading to the phenomenon of life, is biology’s Theory of Evolution


E_D: Evolution is fantasy, fiction and uselss.


"Nine-tenths of the talk of evolutionists is sheer nonsense, not founded on observation and wholly unsupported by facts.
This museum is full of proofs of the utter falsity of their views. In all this great museum, there is not a particle of evidence of the transmutation of species." Dr. Etheridge,
World famous palaeontologist of the British Museum

E_D: Evolution has no facts. CJ, SIerra, Mr. X, Tim , BOgue, AA, Dropinin,
please show me one fact of evolution. If you can do so, there will be a financial reward for it.

For you bogue: From the mighty Fred Hoyle:

Hoyle infamously compared the random emergence of even the simplest cell to the likelihood that "a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein." Hoyle also compared the chance of obtaining even a single functioning protein by chance combination of amino acids to a solar system full of blind men solving Rubik's Cube simultaneously.

Evolution: it just doesn't work. You guys are so stupid to believe this nonsense.

But eventually he realised that even this would be woefully inadequate as a materialistic explanation of life’s origin. In his 1981 book Evolution from Space (co-authored with Chandra Wickramasinghe), he calculated that the chance of obtaining the required set of enzymes for even the simplest living cell was one in 10^40,000 (one followed by 40,000 zeroes). Since the number of atoms in the known universe is infinitesimally tiny by comparison (10^80), even a whole universe full of primordial soup wouldn’t have a chance.

Hey Bogue, CJ, do you have large a number this is?


Sierra, take all the time you want. You and your bullshit evolutionary process will never be able to do this.

Life was created by God. Read Genesis. That is the truth.
eternal_damnation , 28.06.2005, 12:13am link
EVOLUTION IS BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hell is real Sierra. You are going to find out one day. How sweet it will be to watch you on judgement day when God says "there is no sierra " and tosses you into the lake of fire.
eternal_damnation , 28.06.2005, 12:17am link
For CJ,
http://www.christiananswers.net/


now know the truth. I'll send you another bible.
eternal_damnation , 28.06.2005, 1:59am link
E_D, I think that you have finally lost your mind completely. 'Read Genesis. That is the truth.' I've read Genesis, and it is so full of contradictions and assorted idiocies that I can't believe that even a nutter such as yourself could actually claim it to be 'the truth.'
How is 'the truth' determined in any case, in your opinion? What is it about your evil little book (the bible) that makes you so convinced that it is 'the truth'? Is it because it says so? Are you one of those silly people who believe 'oh, if there are over one and a half billion christians in the world today it just HAS to be correct, because how can so many people be wrong?' By your 'reasoning' the Earth SHOULD be flat, because that is what everyone believed only a few centruies ago.
PA , 28.06.2005, 3:49am link
In a way you really have to feel sorry for the religous.

They live in a world that does not belong to them. Their very lives are not their own. Everything fun around them is look but don't touch because their lives are already pleadged to beg forgiveness for sins supposedly committed by those many generations before. Their lives are based on suffering, pennance and the constant threat of punnishment for a callous and unfriendly god.

If there IS a hell that must be it.

I on the other hand wake up in a day free from guilt. I belong to me and my life is mine to have fun with. The only bill I have to pay is the cost of the things I do. There is no invisible man telling me what to do, taking my money or demanding my constant attention. I pay the consequences of my actions and I am free to reap the rewards.

What could possibly be closer to heaven.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 28.06.2005, 6:48am link
yeah i looked at he website e_d. much calmer and loving thankfully then most other chrisitan sites, but i noticed " do not look upon me, god made me black, so they made me tend to the vineyards i do not own" very loving god indeed.

oh and e_d, if the chances of lightning striking someone are so slim as they are, would you say it's impossible? as long as there is a chance, it's bound to happen somewhere.


and at least i don't beleive the world was made in six 24-hour days. populated by four leged insects and flying mammals, and that our gense seed was spread by two human. the result of interbreeding from that would've garaunteed our early death. and as for the tree of knowledge, who's smartass idea was it to put it there in the first palce?
and according to genesis e_d, we're made of mud...i have blood and guts. what about you e_d? do you expel worms and dirt when you scrape your knee?

and e_d, i think i would've liked you more if you weren't so detemrined to save your own ass (you're still going to die. nothing cool is gonna happen)by spreading the hatred and self-absorbtion that is god. let's see...killed thousands of children in egypt (were the kids really deserving of that?) killed more kids for laughing at a bald man, says women are unclean, promotes slavery, is fine with beating kids when you're bored, comitted mass genocide, tells his followers to rape women, wiped the world clean of his mistakes when he is supposedly omnipitent. i simply question the fairytale logic of an all powerful, all knowing, loving god who creates faulty humans, then blames them for HIS mistakes and to solve the problem, eradicates them repeatedly while claiming to love them. his influence has already spread to his loving children, like Hitler and the KKK.

i'm fine with the chrisitans who rpomote the spreading of love and such, but i will say i despise the ones who run up to you, beat you with a bible, and scream "you're wrong! salvation! salvation! Hahahahaha...(descends into insane joyus laughter)"

come on e_d, spread love, not hatred of those different then you. we didn't get to the twenty first century by beating people with bibles. which reminds me, we could be years ahead of our time right now if it weren't for chrisitans evangilists (spell it right?) deeming anti-biotics unholy, and as such our medical system was horrible for many centuries, and still is in places around the world. the simple anti-biotic was lsot in the first crusades, and had to be rediscovered centuries later. a third of europes population was wiped out as such becuase already discovered (and then lost) information was destroyed beause it was "satans work." poor people, could've had longer lives but instead were to die slowly in pain.

done ranting now.
CJ , 28.06.2005, 6:55am link
"You say you have Islamic friends?? The Koran states that you should die if you don't follow what is said within its pages, your so-called friends will sacrifice you to save their own skin.. "

I've read the entire Koran. That isn't in there. In fact, there are certain non-Muslim groups that are praised in the Koran as being their "brothers". In fact, if you've studied any amount of theology concerning the Muslims, you would know that it was the followers of Molech (also known as Malcolm and Milcolm) that he particularly hated. Of course, its only those Muslims who have actually been taught to read who understand that.

"The believers of the old testament are the ones who tried to kill Jesus, but they could not!! "

The alledged Jesus was crucified, not stoned. Crucifixion was a Roman tool of execution, stoning was a Hebrew tool.

"I dearly wish we could find hell. It is supposed to be festering in the bowels of the earth and if we could locate it we would have an EXCELLENT source of geo-thermal energy that would (apparently) last for eternity."

Haven't you heard about the Hell-hole they found in Russia? The article ran in "Scientific American" in 1984...never mind that it was their April edition (April Fools), but...well, its still a Christian Urban Legend, and some still believe it. (Laughs hysterically).

"i'm fine with the chrisitans who rpomote the spreading of love and such, but i will say i despise the ones who run up to you, beat you with a bible, and scream "you're wrong! salvation! salvation! Hahahahaha...(descends into insane joyus laughter)"

I think most people reflect this. Half my family is Christian...so what? They don't bug those of us who aren't, and I don't bug them. Heck, I even teach my kids that certain churches are allright, if not actually helpful. (My mom's church is at the top of this list).

But you know what? My little old Lutheren granny made me proud a few months before she died. They always brought in guest preachers to her apartment. One day, they brought this pentacostal-style in who started spouting fire and brimestone, saying that God hated America. She walked out on him. This was a 95-year-old woman who used a walker half the time, a wheelchair the other half. Got up, told him he was full of crap, and walked out! *Sigh* And my mother wonders where I get it.
Dropinin , 28.06.2005, 7:08pm link
Ooops, forgot...

Hell (along with Satan) is actually a combination of things things. The Hell that Jesus knew was actually just a dark place (under the ground) where all the dead went to purified before rejoining their God. The lake of fire that Jesus spoke of was a place that surrounded paradise, and only demons were sent there (you'll note that the alledged Jesus said that God gave the judgement over to Jesus himself, and Jesus refused to judge any human.)

The ROMAN Christians took these ideas, along with the Greek ideal of the wicked being punished in Hades, and created "burning in Hell for all eternity" out of it. Paul was rather instrumental in this, as his mother was a Greek follower of Mithras. Which is where the early Christians got that duality of the good deity born on Dec. 21st that sacrificed himself and was resurrected (Mithras/Jesus) and the evil God that wanted to enslave all of mankind (Ahriman/Satan). And, of course, there are parallels between Ahriman and his demons, where they live, etc., and parallels between "choosing life or burning in Hell".

Now, take that...mix it good with the fact that his father was a Hebrew who believed the Messiah was going to come, mix in a little bit of upper-class-Roman prudishness and family traditions and BOOM! Modern Christianity.
Dropinin , 28.06.2005, 7:34pm link
where in the bible does Jesus speak of a Lake Of Fire?
MAD MONK , 28.06.2005, 9:35pm link
wow. your grandma sounds really awesome. kinda wish i could've met her. actually, sounds like your whole family is awesome. when my parents took me to church, i was always in the classroom where for some reason pentacles were considdered evil and other bull like that. kind of a shame the rest of the kids beleived that stuff.

yeah, and basically hell used to be like heaven where you could sit down with your friends, eat pizza, watch TV, except no angels flew overhead.

oh, and dropinin, i was talking about the bible-thumpers who would go out of their way to try to aggresively convert you. reminds me of an incident where women beated a high school student with bibles for wearing a pentacle. not all christians are bad, i'm just tired of the ones screaming about how i'm going to burn in hell. or for that matter, eat pizza, watch TV...
CJ , 28.06.2005, 9:41pm link
E_D im afraid i cant give you any factual evidence of evolution other than them fossil things (as you can tell anthropology isn't my specific subject area, and neither is maths!) but then again there is no evidence to creationism, except of course the old testament, which i cant believe is that accurate as it is too one sided. who wrote genesis anyway?
and as for the heaven and hell thing, i'll leave you with a quote (don't know who or where it came from!) "heaven and hell are here on earth, god and devil are in every man"
uk girl , 28.06.2005, 10:16pm link
Thanks UK girl, your the most honest atheist on this web-board.
Old speckled hen is a good beer, just bought a six pack from the local liquor store.
In university I was an evolutionist arguing against GOd and the bible. It's possible that life might just be a fluke event in this universe. If the universe is infinite even an event of probability of 1/10^40000
can occur if given enough time. I'm not sure how old the universe is.
Honestly, I just want to believe in something and know that we'll be taken care of after death. Don't you think there is more to us than just flesh and blood? Where do our thoughts come from? How and why do we think?
We must have been created.
The bible changed my life and made me a better person.
eternal_damnation , 29.06.2005, 12:15am link
well said. i used to wonder if after we died we sorta created our own paradise for ourselves. we'll just have to wait and see.
CJ , 29.06.2005, 3:40am link
So when exactly willt he demise of evolution happen?

150 yers and still waiting ;)

http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/demise.html

E_D A better person? Yikes, I'd hate to have met you before.. you're nuts.. I'm embarassed to be from the same country as you.


Ah, the retreat of the brain, unable to explain the world around him

Goddidit
goddidit
goddidit

*yawn*

Genisis 'evolved' from Sumerian beliefs. It's a load of superstitions crap.

languages did not develop by God tossign everyone out of the tower of babel.

genesis describes a flat pingpong shaped world covered ina glass dome, separating the water below from the water above.. exactly where is all this water, E_D? Doesnt exist.. made up from Sumerian beliefs.. a load of nonsense.

Can you change the color of your goats by putting striped reeds in a nearby river? The Bible says you can! Wow .. all this truth..

Nowhere in the Bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old. That was some fantasy thoguht up by a mideaval priest.. you may as well believe the worls is flat because he probably believed that too! Yup, flat 6000 year old world!
Gilgamesh , 29.06.2005, 4:19am link
err 'pingpong TABLE shapped world' hehe
Gilgamesh , 29.06.2005, 4:24am link
Exactly, CJ...faith and spirituality are fine by me, but the addicts ruin it for everyone else. (Not to mention that the addicts have a tendency to not behave themselves, whether on societies or their own religion's standards.

The story that I heard, Gilgamesh, was that this priest you spoke of went back through one of the geneologies of Jesus and counted up how many years those people lived and added it together. Never mind that the individuals listed in the Bible are just mythological literary tools to try and describe how the differing tribes and nations came into being.

E_D...if you came to the conclusion that you were created...great! But don't turn to the young Earth creationists...they don't know what they are talking about. Evolution might be taught without deference to the existence of a creator, but that doesn't mean that a deity, should a deity exist, didn't use evolution as a tool. The whole problem with YECreationism is that they are trying to use a natural science to prove the supernatural (which can't be done) and that should be left to the individual. More importantly, they are trying to prove innerrant a book that is extremely flawed scientifically, mathematically, and historically. Pope John Paul said in a Catholic Catechism that Evolution is more than likely the physical truth, wheras the Bible was the spiritual truth (not a direct quote, but pretty darn close to what he said). If its made you a better person, more power to you. I became a better person as a philosophical agnostic with no personal belief/worship of a deity (which makes me an atheist).

Hell is called the "Lake of Fire" in Revelations. That is...if you put any stock in Revelations.
Dropinin , 29.06.2005, 4:54am link
Dropinin, yep thats what I heard too, not to mention the list of geneologies probably isnt meant to be acomprehensive list. It lists the most important people.
Gilgamesh , 29.06.2005, 5:57am link
Hi E_D,

I see you're still "quote-mining" from the 'Flintsone' science sites.

Like this one:
"Nine-tenths of the talk of evolutionists is sheer nonsense, not founded on observation and wholly unsupported by facts.
This museum is full of proofs of the utter falsity of their views. In all this great museum, there is not a particle of evidence of the transmutation of species." Dr. Etheridge,
World famous palaeontologist of the British Museum

World Famous Palaeontologist? Like Stephen J. Gould. Or the generations of the Leaky family.
Or perhaps made up to be 'famous', hmmm.... there's that smell of B#\\sh*t.

Perhaps like the one with the credentials here:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/49be386df04bd03c?hl=en&safe=off&rnum=1

"There were two Etheridges at the British Museum
of Natural History. They were Robert Etheridge
and Robert Etheridge Jr. They were both there
as Assistant Keepers in the 1880's. The last
one, Robert Etheridge Jr., was there from 1881-1887
before leaving to move to Australia. I have yet to
find out when Robert Etheridge Senior left.
However, it was very likely before the turn of
the century.

The term "transmutation of species" is a dead
giveaway that this is probably a 19th century
quote. This quote is without any meaning as
far as current knowledge of evolution is
concerned. It is of only of interest to people
interested in what people thought of evolution
over a hundred years ago.


An apparent source of this quote is an anti-
evolution tract, Dr. Scott Huse's book "The
Collapse of Evolution." He cites a "Dr. Etheridge,
senior paleontologist of the British Museum of
Natural History." It is amazing how creationists
have promoted "Etheridge" from an assistant
keeper to senior paleontologist and, now,
world-famous paleontologist."

See E_D evolution even works in the minds of creationists, somewhere along these lines; starts with janitor, micro-evolves into custodian, transmutes into sanitation engineer, macro-evolves into rocket scientist, without leaving a fossil trace along the way and viola, qoute proves the universe is only 6017 years old.
Man, you have got to tell your 'creationist' scientists to MAKE up some new quotes. Send them some money, tell them it's from me, maybe they can hire better writers. I thought "True Christian ®"'s who come up with these facts you keep quoting are supposed to be honest. Oh right, my bad, not when pimping je$u$ or the £ord.


Evolution happens, god doesn't (except when money is to be scammed)

AA
AccursedAtheist , 29.06.2005, 6:11am link
dropinin Revelations was not written by Jesus!!!! You are talking out of class!! Your statements are pointless anyway. But I must say your granny sounds cool!!
MAD MONK , 29.06.2005, 4:40pm link
E_D still waiting for you to give me just one statement of truth in the old testament??
MAD MONK , 29.06.2005, 4:47pm link
Question: isn't life itself in its ever changing forms proof of evolution??
MAD MONK , 29.06.2005, 4:51pm link
There is no DEATH!!! only life changing form!! thus LIFE=GOD!! and the only thing in life that doesn't change is the fact that everything is changing!!
MAD MONK , 29.06.2005, 5:03pm link
to answer your question MAD MONK the fact that were always changing doesn't PROOVE (i don't know how to spell!) evolution but it does SUPPORT the THEORY of evolution.as evolution happens over millions of years it would be extremely difficult to proove it unless you had a time machine and could travel back in time to the begining of earth and note the changes. on the other hand maybe a higher power is responsible for these changes and adaptations which is why it is difficult for science to proove anything.
just trying to show both sides of the arguement here!!!
uk girl , 29.06.2005, 6:00pm link
personaly i don't think mankind will ever know the truth of how the universe began, and i don't think we are meant to.
uk girl , 29.06.2005, 6:01pm link
oh and MAD MONK, i'll give you a staement of truth from the Old testament: it's old!!!!
uk girl , 29.06.2005, 6:03pm link
thats all relative, compared to the earth its extremely young, so thats not really a truthful statement.
Dodge , 29.06.2005, 6:09pm link
well its older than me!!
uk girl , 29.06.2005, 6:12pm link
"dropinin Revelations was not written by Jesus!!!!"

Ummm...nothing in the Bible was written by Jesus. The closest anything IN the Bible to Jesus is that one little letter by his brother, James. But its alledgedly Jesus that the writer of Revelations was talking to and learning all of this stuff from....or, didn't you know that? However, I do agree with you that the only thing in life that isn't changing is that life itself changes. Cool statement...I may have to borrow it sometime.

A statement of truth from the old testament....ummm...okay, cows chew their cud. So we now have two true statements...It's old, and cows chew their cud, which still leaves...99.9999999% untrue. Unless, of course, you take the fact that the story of Moses was stolen from a true Egyptian story and messed with until it made the Asiatics come out the winners instead of the losers... Anyone else want to chip in?
Dropinin , 29.06.2005, 7:35pm link
Oops...as I was packing our vehicles for our camping trip, I realized that someone will probably yell at me for this...

HALF of the story of Moses was stolen from a true Egyptian story...the other elements were stolen from the Babylonians (both fact and myth), and there is a little admix of some Egyptian fairy tales.
Dropinin , 29.06.2005, 8:31pm link
Here is the ENTIRE problem with religion....

E_D said:

"Honestly, I just want to believe in something and know that we'll be taken care of after death...We must have been created.
The bible changed my life and made me a better person."

Thats really sweet.

Its fine if you WANT to believe in something. Do as you will. The problem is that you and the bastards like you start forcing your beliefs on others. Suddenly the idea of me working on Sunday, buying a bottle of liquor and a porno video and watching it at home "OFFENDS YOU".

Who the hell are you? Your silly faith stops at the outside of your head. How dare you goddammed people start trying to force your morality and beliefs on the world.

I'll have none of your diety crap and it is outrageous to suggest things like "its a christian nation" and that the behavior of others is a "sin".

Why must we have been "created"? Why is it so hard for you to accept that when your life is over its over? It changes nothing about the days you have, and you are aware of nothing after.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 29.06.2005, 8:56pm link
MAD MONK,
here is one truth in Genesis.
"In the beginning God created heaven and earth". That good enough for you?
Sierra, you have free will and can do as you wish. Don't forget who gave you that free will. What God giveth , God can taketh away.
Everyone will have to account for his/her actions.
eternal_damnation , 30.06.2005, 1:37am link
UK girl, thanks for helping me out. My life changed for the better thanks to the bible. It can change all of us. Your the most honest atheist on this web-board. Sierra, CJ, Tim, Dropinin, AA, Gilgamesh (who is really Brother Jeff -- Hi Jeff, hope everything is well with you and that your doing a great job spending the taxpayers hard earned money) think they know everything. How can anyone state that evolution is a fact. It's a theory, hypothesis, a conjecture of how complex forms developed.
I'll concede that an event of even miniscule probability could have happened if given enough time.
Look around you, life is a miracle and a gift from God. CJ, the elements in the dust of the earth are in our bodies. Do you have an explanation for that?
AA, your embarassed that I'm living in the same country as you? I'm not a criminal, welfare recipient, or a political trouble maker. I'm a law abiding citizen who pays his taxes. I work two jobs even though money is not an issue in my life. I love to work (Brother Jeff, try it , you might like it).
I trust Jesus, and know he will have an explanation for why things happened this way. Heaven will be a beautiful place, and I just want to get in the door. There is no way all those christians could be wrong and i'm going with them.
UK girl, if you see anyone walking down Oxford street with a hockey jersey on (Vancouver Canucks-- canada's best hockey team), in October that will be me.
eternal_damnation , 30.06.2005, 1:52am link
Oh, yea. Mad Monk doth surely listen to the words of Jesus. So far he's shown hate for just about everyone but himself.
Oh, and uh...Dropinin is right. Just because its counter to the hateful messages you espouse doesn't mean its pointless. He (She?) has made quite a few good points and is spreading information. Knowledge is power, knowledge leads to wisdom. And the knowledge that you and Eternal Damnation are nothing more than PAGANS makes me laugh.
Xiomburg , 30.06.2005, 2:00am link
AA, disturbed is a great band. David Draiman at vocals kicks butt.
I'm in my 30's and heavy metal is still the best music. I love driving my corvette down the freeway with soulfly or disturbed cranked up.
It's nice to cross the border and take highway down the coast. Bet none of you guys own a 90000 corvette, candy apple red, five speed, 6 speakers, 0-60 in 4 seconds. Hey CJ, work out the acceleration.
Not bad for a mental case.
eternal_damantion , 30.06.2005, 2:05am link
Ok guys, enough for tonight. Time to take out my beautiful vette for a ride. Wish you were with me UK girl. Canada is beautiful.
Taking my CD, primitive my Soul fly.
eternal_damnation , 30.06.2005, 2:10am link
WAIT A MINUTE.....

"Bet none of you guys own a 90000 corvette..."

Are you not coveting? Sounds like it to me.

Certainly loving that stupid vette is idolatry? You poor ignorant sinning bastard!!!

The bible tells you CLEARLY that: (Hebrews 13:5) Let your conversation be without covetousness......

Hmmmmm. Man are you a hypocrit. Typical goddammed christian.

Where is all that goddammed humility you are supposed to have?

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 30.06.2005, 5:20am link
Hi E_D,

WHOA man, I never personally attacked you on here man. I've never said anything about being embarrased that you also live in Canada, nobody should be, it's a great country, full of diverse people and wonderful places. Somebody else said that sh*t. I've never dissed you, just your information sources and belief systems. And maybe some of your taste in music and once when you said something about being not being impressed about an argument about evolution. I've not said anything about anybody's work ethic. I've worked most of my adult life since high school, saving for 6 years to go to college working sometimes 3 jobs at a time. Paid for in full at the time of enrollment including living expenses, for an education in electronics engineering, with $250 to spare when done (second in my class) and worked ever since the day I graduated. Haven't taken a real vacation since 1991, so don't think your the only hard working person here. I've been a janitor, delivery boy, factory labourer, owned a farm, worked as an electrician, electronics tech, and even ran my own business twice, and much more. I've already EARNED more than a million dollars so far in my life and will do so again. I am NOT SCARED of hard work. But I don't really care if others are. It gets me what I need.

Now onto cars.
I'm not much of a Vette fan, I like 60's and early 70's American muscle cars. Around here it's pretty flat, all about straight line acceleration.

North American Muscle Car Guy mode on.
Sorry in advance to those across the pond. And those who aren't into such sh*t.

I've owned a few.

1967 Firebird 400 V-8.

1974 Formula Firebird, Fastest but not quickest, car I ever owned.

1978 Trans-Am Firebird, this car could handle as good as most Vette's up until that time.

1968 Ford Falcon, 289 small block, 4.10:1 locker rear gears.

1969 Pontiac Acadian (Canadian only car- same as a Nova), 350 small block, my first car bought in high school with my own money.

And my favourite I just sold a few years back, believe it or not E_D, finished in Stryper's colours, a yellow and black, 1968 Charger, 383, about 400 hp, all work done by me (except paint by a good friend), that I owned for over 15 years. I regret selling it, since the price for a good one is about 30-40 g's today for one in the same shape as the one I had. Definetly the quickest ride I've owned, 13 second 1/4 mile Et's. 0-60 in about 5 seconds.
But it also seated 6, and had a big f#cking trunk that could carry a few sets of golf clubs, handled decently, and got a sh*tload of thumbs up's. At about a sixth of the price of your vette, another 5 or 6 grand and it'd smoke most of today's high priced supercars in the quarter. I'll probably do up another one day. The difference is I DID the work MYSELF, the old-fashioned way.

Car Guy mode off.

And yeah Disturbed kicks.About heavy metal, you're preaching to the choir here (just not some of those hair-metal bands). I've been listening to Tygers of Pantang today, older british metal. Sh*t E_D, you can't be all bad, you at least don't like the Leafs! And oh yeah, Evolution is still a fact.
AccursedAtheist , 30.06.2005, 7:25am link
"Gilgamesh (who is really Brother Jeff -- Hi Jeff, hope everything is well with you and that your doing a great job spending the taxpayers hard earned money) "

E_D, you are fucking idiot. Of course, everyone knows that for many many reasons.
Brother Jeff' has a unique posting style that I don't have, and I've never seen him deviate from it ;)

But hey think what ylou want, after all you believe a 2000+ year old book of fairy tales so you'll believe anything
Gilgamesh , 30.06.2005, 1:14pm link
"(Vancouver Canucks-- canada's best hockey team), in October that will be me.
"

Egads! He is even from the same city! lmao
Gilgamesh , 30.06.2005, 1:17pm link
AA- WHOA man, I never personally attacked you on here man. I've never said anything about being embarrased that you also live in Canada, nobody should be, it's a great country,



Yeah I said that and meant it tongue in cheek.. It takes all types I guess, even in Canada. :p
Gilgamesh , 30.06.2005, 1:19pm link
" your embarassed that I'm living in the same country as you? I'm not a criminal, welfare recipient, or a political trouble maker. I'm a law abiding citizen who pays his taxes. I work two jobs even though money is not an issue in my life. "


Good for you, you are still an embarassment to the Canadian school system ;)

Seriosuly.. you think 'Jesus' turned your life around? YOU did that, fool, and the people aroudn you. Good for you, congrats!

I on the other hand, have managed all those things without 'help' form an imaginary diety. I have never used drugs, smoked, drank too much, yada yada, never been in trouble with the law (besides a few speeding tickets :p) and work every day. big freaking deal.. welcome to the rest of the human race. This doesnt make us special or better than anyone and it doesn't give you the freaking right to lecture and talk down to people like you have been.

Troll.
Gilgamesh , 30.06.2005, 1:23pm link
E_D -"Evolution: it just doesn't work. You guys are so stupid to believe this nonsense.

"

Mt 7:3-5
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.



;)
Gilgamesh , 30.06.2005, 2:38pm link
Truths in the Bible:


1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

(Ah, there's that firmament)

7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, [b]and the windows of heaven were opened.[/b]

(There is an invisible dome above us with windows, keeping out the water, until God wants it to rain)

1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

(The moon is a light source)

1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

(Stars are little lights set in the firmament)


1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

(The bible supports evolution! Glory! (oopa slipped a Jeffism in there ;p))

11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

(God gets pissed off because humans are going to build a tower (that is not even as high as a typical lowrise today), that would reach heaven!)

11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

(Languages and cultures developed over time, leaving plenty of evidence of such.. God did not 'scatter' peoplea nd 'confound their languiages' to stop them from reaching heaven. its just silly)

Oh wait, forgot something!

10:31 These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.

11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

Contradict much? So which was it? Different languages or the same language? make up your mind Lord! lmao

30:37 And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods. (30:37-39) Jacob displays his (and God's) knowledge of biology by having goats copulate while looking at streaked rods. The result is streaked baby goats.
30:38 And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.
30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.


(Wow, genetic manipulation using striped rods! Yup, lots of 'truth' there.. lmao)

32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.

(Dragons?)

2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.

(The world is set on pillars!)

22:8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. (22:8-16) The earth shakes, the foundations of heaven move, smoke comes out of God's nostrils, and fire out of his mouth.

22:9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
22:10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.

(God makes volcanoes and earthquakes by shaking the earth on its pillars..)


OK thats enouogh 'truth' in the bible for now.. lmao
Gilgamesh , 30.06.2005, 2:57pm link
Hi Gilgamesh,

It freaked me out too that E_D's from Canada, but there seems to be a growing influence of so-cons (social conservatives)in our country like the USA is suffering through right now, too. I guess that's why I've become more vocal in my atheism. I wouldn't like to see our country become less educated, more dependant on government, and in the future, bankrupt like the US may become. It's a weird thing to have such a close perspective to our good neighbours to the south, and see them headed down the path to possibly a theocracy, and the way much of their media seems blinded or at least uncritical of it, and a large number of good people are gullible to it.

GW's down there, supposedly promoting a 'culture of life' while blocking innovational ideas (which is one of the reasons America was a great country and was admired more than they are presently) on stem cell research, which offers the potential to save millions of lives from suffering. Invading a country without really good reasons and now having almost 2000 young Americans die overseas, as well as Iraqi civilians, while Bin Laden still is alive and well in Afghanistan. I'm not against the fighting forces in Iraq, I just think there for the wrong reasons. Hell, over 50% of Americans thought that Saddam had something to do with the unjustified attacks on America by a religious group (whom to me as an atheist are the same as any other deity worshipping, imaginary heaven-seeking cult), which goes to show the power of the b#//sh*t spin the so-cons have put on the situation. Some 'culture of life' I'd say. All the while spending money like a bunch of drunken Liberals in our government's Human Resources Ministry. And I'd hate to see that happening here (by the way I'm neither right or left wing, I tend to view myself as fiscally conservative, and socially liberal when it comes to individual rights basically, to each their own, unless it directly harms me or my loved ones, and reasonably centrist in regards to most other issues in our country, ie. I understand the concept of taxation and representation for services which benefit society as a whole).

AA
AccursedAtheist , 30.06.2005, 3:46pm link
holy fuckin' crap e_d, i've already psoted several times that evolution is a theory with a CRAPLOAD of evidence to support it.

and i said e-d (read what we post, it makes life easier) that you have the EMOTIONAL MATURITY of a mental case. (
i'm getting tired of pointing out the painfully obvious)

and e_d, i will point out the PAINFULLY OBVIOUS again. yes, the elements of dirt our in our bodies. it's not like humans and dirt are made of different things. grass sucks up minerals from the dirt (dirt composition) cows eat the grass and while they're at it eat some dirt caught in the roots as well. the cows body assimilates all it can (including the minerals in dirt) then shits out the rest. we kill the cow, and eat it's meat (which is filled with and made of what it ate in life) and we consume it and thus assimilate the meat and all its components.

no fuckin' mystery there sherlok. we're all made of elements, you and me, grass and dirt.
CJ , 30.06.2005, 9:43pm link
Temper, Temper Brother Jeff (Gilgamesh). I know your brother Jeff, because it's so easy to get under your skin.
Gilgamesh, my middle index finger is for you and Jeff.
Sierra, your just jealous your not half the man I am. What's wrong with loving my vette? Just finished putting gas into the car tonight,when a hot blondie at the next pump checking out the car (no, it was me). I didn't lust after her so no sin was committed.
Gilgamesh:

1. we have a common ancestor with monkeys --NOT!!!
where's the common ancestor and what is it?
2. The fossil evidence doesn't support evolution. Where are all the intermediate sub species?
3. Genetics doesn't support evolution.
4. Palentology doesn't support evolution.

Gilgamesh, AA, you guys are not intelligent nor logical thinkers. A true rationalist would not accept evolution. Your so brainwashed, that you'll believe anything.
Get a life guys.

I'm off for a vacation at a nice cottage for the next week.

Don't cry CJ, I know you will miss my super intelligent postings.

Truth hurts Gilgamesh (jeff). You just have to face it.

UK girl, wish you were coming with me.
Just came back from a nice drive blasting metallica, Fuel and Incubus.

Take it easy Jeff (Gilgamesh). Wonder if you hate all the christians out there that your welfare cheque.
eternal_damnation , 01.07.2005, 4:49am link
"All the above (radiometric) methods for dating the age of the earth, its various strata, and its fossils are questionable, because the rates are likely to have fluctuated widely over earth history.
It is obvious that radiometric techniques may not be the absolute dating methods that they are claimed to be.
Age estimates on a given geological stratum by different radiometric methods are often quite different (sometimes by hundreds of millions of years). There is no absolutely reliable long-term radiological ‘clock.'
The uncertainties inherent in radiometric dating are disturbing to geologist and evolutionists."

W.D. Stansfield,
Ph.D., Instructor of Biology, California Polytech State University, The Science of Evolution, Macmillan, 1987


Is the earth really billions of years old?

EVOLUTION, IT JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN.

TOO BAD EH JEFF?
eternal_damnation , 01.07.2005, 4:53am link
I WIN!!!! YOU JUST CAN'T BEAT ME. NO ATHEIST IS A MATCH FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE A LIE.

SEEK THE TRUTH.
eternal_damnation , 01.07.2005, 4:54am link
You gotta love E_D....riding around, bragging about his corvette, toupee blowing in the wind, thanking an invisible man for all of it.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 01.07.2005, 6:23am link
And don't forget Sierra, while he's gassing up that spoiled rich kid's feminine car (red on top of it), some blonde transgendered dude with a mullet, who could be mistaken, when looking through deluded eyes, for a woman, looks him up and down.


Yikes.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 01.07.2005, 6:58am link
E_D,

you asked :
"Is the earth really billions of years old?"

Yes. Some very smart people have determined this to be true, and have provided evidence to prove it.


Now I need proof of something. Years ago, this supposed wandering, smelly, hippy-like, socialist-type, anti-intellectual, dude that liked hanging around mostly men, not that there's anything wrong with that, was wandering around the western shores of the Mediterrean Sea. Anyway, let's just call this hypothetical free-loading, jobless leech, 'smelly-hippy'. Well old 'smelly-hippy' had a minor defect in his brain that made him think he was better than anyone else. In fact 'smelly-hippy' imagined he was really the most important person to have ever lived. Since in the days that 'smelly-hippy' lived medicine was considered a practice to be done only by the clergy (they couldn't have some smart-ass scientific doctor to help poor old 'smelly-hippy' in those days), and the clergy were pretty strict about the proper treatment for this disease. It could only be cured by death. So they went to the authorities present and asked them to provide this cure for 'smelly-hippy' After some negotiations, it was agreed that 'smelly-hippy' would be cured of this mental disease. He was killed and then put a tomb. Now after 3 days somehow this tomb is open and 'smelly-hippy' isn't in it. Now this is where I need proof, I need you E_D to show me evidence that 'smelly-hippy' aka jesus became a zombie. I don't believe in zombies, no matter that many movies (or books) are made about them, I've never seen any evidence of EVEN ONE. I NEED PROOF that ZOMBISM OCCURS before I could ever believe that 'smelly-hippy' was one. Where are all the zombies in the geological record. I mean in 6000 years that the earth has existed, there must be from those know-it-all 'creationist' scientists proof that zombies exist? Or at least TRANSITIONAL zombies like ones that first at least died and then came back in just one day instead of three. Or maybe ones that drowned in say, a FLOOD and were resuscitated There must be, but the odds of one happening are 10 ^666 to 1. Oh, 'smelly-hippy' can't you just show me a sign. Maybe then I'd believe.

Waiting.

Still waiting.

Years later still waiting. Oh well,


The Jesus Cult, composed of deluded beliefs about zombies. And we the non-believers are what was it, brainwashed? Well I guess you at least need a brain to be brainwashed. But be careful fellow heathens, in all the zombie movies, that's what all the zombies are after.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 01.07.2005, 7:24am link
To all the Canadians on this board, including you E_D, have a safe and happy Canada Day. Enjoy the well-earned holiday with friends and family. Same to the Americans on here on the Fourth.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 01.07.2005, 7:28am link
@A-A "All the while spending money like a bunch of drunken Liberals in our government's Human Resources Ministry. And I'd hate to see that happening here (by the way I'm neither right or left wing, I tend to view myself as fiscally conservative, and socially liberal when it comes to individual rights basically, to each their own, unless it directly harms me or my loved ones, and reasonably centrist in regards to most other issues in our country, ie. I understand the concept of taxation and representation for services which benefit society as a whole).
"


Ahaha :)


Yeah politically I'm pretty much the same way.

CJ and the rest, please note E_D is doing this because he enjoys tweaking us, and getting a reaction. He is a troll. I'd say don't feed the trolls but people are enjoying doing it anyway.

Witness his claim that I'm Jeff.. He does it because I accused him (incorrectly) of being another poster. He knows it is not true but keeps harping on it because he thinks it will bug me.

His rants on evilution are the same thing.. There's a possibility that he doesnt even believe the nonsence he is spouting.
Gilgamesh , 01.07.2005, 11:50am link
--Hmmmmm. Man are you a hypocrit. Typical goddammed christian.--
He sure shows his love for Jesus by doing the exact opposite Jesus said. Hey, moron, why don't you do what Jesus said and give your money to the poor instead of raping them out of it? Oh thats right. You aren't a Christian. You're a pagan. Or an anti-Christ.
Xiomburg , 01.07.2005, 12:33pm link
"All the above (radiometric) methods for dating the age of the earth......

W.D. Stansfield,
Ph.D., Instructor of Biology, California Polytech State University, The Science of Evolution, Macmillan, 1987"

1897, jesus christ e_d, almost 20yrs old. Technology has progressed a long way since then, dating techniques are becoming more and more accurate. So what if some of the dateing results dont correspond by a few hundred million years, the earth is billions of years old so the percentage error isnt going to be that big. If your going to argue with quotes, at least get some relevant ones.

e_d it seems to me you cannot grasp the concept of time. You think that just because things have a slim chance of happening, they dont. The universe is thousands of billions of years old, the earth is (i think) approx. 6 billion years old. Im no biology expert but i think thats plenty of time for life to form from simple amino acids etc...

e_d i now challenge you to come up with evidence for creationism. I want no quote mining, only facts, and may i remind you that not having concrete proof for evolution is not evidence supporting creationism. If you believe in another theory there must be evidence to back it up. Also i want evidence that would normally be accepted by the scientific community i.e. no bible quotes.
Dodge , 01.07.2005, 12:34pm link
--I'd say don't feed the trolls but people are enjoying doing it anyway.--
Of course he's a troll, Gilgamesh. My buddy Dropinin and I have seen him and his little troll friends dozens of times. They like to pretend their wealthy, ultra-conservative, and Christian. HA HA HA! But I like fucking with trolls. Pardon my language if you have virgin eyes. Notice he won't argue with any point that goes way over his head? Its his typical M.O. Dropinin pointed him out to me here. He/She likes to fuck with them too. How ya doin buddy? Still trying to annoy people into turning off their message boards? Funny how youve turned into an ex-gay in the past five years.
Xiomburg , 01.07.2005, 12:42pm link
BTW Happy Canada Day! And Happy USA day in the US :)
Gilgamesh , 01.07.2005, 2:53pm link
LOL X.. yeah thats funny.. thanks for pointing that out
Gilgamesh , 01.07.2005, 2:55pm link
Thanks AA. If the Toronto Maple leafs ever win the cup, I will believe in evolution.
Time to get going to the cottage.
Happy Canada Day.


"The family tree of the horse is beautiful and continuous only in the textbooks.
Dodge: This one's for you:
***************
The construction of the whole Cenozoic family tree of the horse is therefore a very artificial one, since it is put together from non-equivalent parts." Prof N. Heribert Nilsson,
Lund University, Sweden. Famous botanist and evolutionist Synthetische Artbildung. Verlag CWE Gleerup Press .
****************

"Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great con-men, and the story they are telling may be the GREATEST HOAX ever."

**************


Dodge, deal with reality, evolution never happened.

The truth is in the bible
eternal_damnation , 01.07.2005, 3:02pm link
EVOLUTION IS BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EVOLUTION IS BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eternal_damnation , 01.07.2005, 3:05pm link
E_D what happened? Did the cottage burn down?

Lying troll ;)
Gilgamesh , 01.07.2005, 3:28pm link
The truth is in the bible

"30:37 And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods. (30:37-39) Jacob displays his (and God's) knowledge of biology by having goats copulate while looking at streaked rods. The result is streaked baby goats.
30:38 And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.
30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.
"

Yeah, look at all that truth.. lmao
Gilgamesh , 01.07.2005, 3:31pm link
"EVOLUTION IS BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EVOLUTION IS BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"


Saying it over and over doesn't make it true, skippy ;)
Gilgamesh , 01.07.2005, 3:35pm link
What does lmao stand for? Sorry for the dumb question.
Timnot4me , 01.07.2005, 5:25pm link
lmao=laughing my ass off. We've all asked stupid questions from time to time.

ED is a funny little man, isn't he? Guess thats why he has to tell everyone about his (equally nonexistant) phallic symbol of a car.
Xiomburg , 01.07.2005, 6:23pm link
I'm a leftwing christian working with a group that promotes human rights and social justice. We do not go door to door trying to convert anyone.
Lottery tickets are a tax on the poor. We should spending money on human needs and not on invading IRAQ.
I don't respond to ED and will not ever. Probably some spoiled rich kid. I used to teach those types when I was a teacher in a private school. I drive an 1985 pontiac 6000. The students would come to school driving BMW's, corvettes,lexus, etc. E_D is probably one of those types.
Don't respond to him/her.
Timnot4me , 01.07.2005, 8:25pm link
i wish i had a nice car, my metro has a hole in it now but it works!!! i agree with what Timnot4me said, instead of the US and UK spending money on a pointless war they should put it into africa, hope everyone will be supporting live 8!!!!
uk girl , 01.07.2005, 8:39pm link
for people in the US a metro is the worst car ever made in the UK!
uk girl , 01.07.2005, 8:40pm link
What amazes me about the UK is that people have lived there 2000 years (in large numbers) and still (from the air at least) its green, lush and it looks like everyone lives walking distance to a park.

Here in the US everything is paved over and everyone has a 2 hour communte to work.

I wish the British could teach the Americans here a thing or two about how to create a place that you actually want to live in.

I had to move a long way to get close to that. In the UK it seems to be everywhere.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 02.07.2005, 12:24am link
Sierra,
you need proper levels of taxation to have a place where people want to live.
US, you pay a price for not paying taxes.
Governments must fund human needs, not wars.
Timnot4me , 02.07.2005, 1:20am link
Thats bullshit.

People just need to be more mindful of greenspace.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 02.07.2005, 3:59am link
I wish the US wouldn't con the UK into fighting it's wars.
Paying taxes = civilized society.
Gun control = less crime.

At least people in the UK get medical treatment and don't go bankrupt.
Timnot4me , 02.07.2005, 4:09am link
You jackass. We saved your bacon in WWII. We backed you in the Falkland Islands mess. Past of being a ally is that you chip in even if you don't totally agree.

The UK may be full of people like you, but I would NEVER let anyone mess with the UK and would always support them - even if it came at a cost.

We pay taxes. We just believe we deserve to take some of our money home with us.

As far as gun control, the IRA does not seem to have any trouble getting them. Gun control does not equal less crime, just an unsafe population.

We have lots of guns. I own 7 - 1 shotgun, 3 rifles and 3 handguns. What we DON'T have is a monarchy or a "church of the USA". See how guns help you out.

I'm sure the royals still have in impresive armory.

Lastly, everyone here in the US gets medical care too. People only go bankrups if they spend foolishly.

On top of all that, we have things like Yosemite. Ever been there?

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 02.07.2005, 4:29am link
Hi Sierra,

"Gun control does not equal less crime, just an unsafe population."

I agree, you can see the results in Canada. Earlier this year, four brave Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers lost their lives in a raid on a grow-op in western Canada. Recently, at a cost of almost 2 BILLION dollars (originally estimated to cost only 2 million, then 50 million, then a few hundred million), a gun registry system has been implemented in Canada. The law enforcment agencies now, according to our government's wise decision to implement this system 'know' which households own guns. Except it doesn't work. It only shows data on law-abiding citizens who have registered their duck-hunting shotguns, etc. like myself. It didn't help save the lives of these brave police officers who were gunned down by a felon, who was already prohibited from owning a firearm, probably because his unregistered gun wasn't in the system. Gun control 0, criminal 4. Cost 2 billion, lives saved 0.

Earlier this week, we had the largest mass murder here in the 150 year history of our city. 4 dead (2 children, 1 women, 1 man - the gunman who was not a resident of where the incident took place), 2 police officers wounded and again responding to a 911 call by the lone surviving child, the officers probably approached the home where no guns were registered and they were caught off guard. Gun control 0, armed psycho 4 dead (he killed the woman and her kids with a knife - gun control would never prevent these deaths, therefore the statement by Timnot4me above "Gun control = less crime" might not be justified - and himself with the gun), 2 brave police officers wounded, lives saved by 2 billion wasted dollars gun registry still 0, and always will be 0. There are DOZENS of cases like this in our media since the gun registry has been in place the last 2 years. IT CAN NEVER WORK. But it's a feel-good law that the non-critically thinking public originally fell for. Now, most aren't so keen to it. NO SH*T!

The government has said it will cost even more to keep it running. All it's done is created a few bureaucratic jobs and possibly a list that an unscrupulous government or other party could use to confiscate the firearms from law-abiding hunters and target shooters like myself who aren't using their firearms in a menacing way to society and never will.

In many parts of Canada gun ownership of the populace is higher than the US rate of gun ownership, but the use of guns in violent crimes is lower by orders of magnitude than in most parts of the world. Does this prove or disprove that guns raise the crime rate. It probably does neither, since guns aren't animate objects that can do things on their own. It's the culture of a population that determines behaviour, not pieces of steel and wood. But by and by objects are easier to 'control' than people, and governments often take the lazy way out.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 03.07.2005, 5:16am link
First and foremost, widespread arms ownership was envisioned to protect a law abiding population from its government, not protect each citizen from its neighbor.

Secondly, the way most goverments implement "gun control" makes ownership and acqusition a pain in the butt for the law abiding but does nothing to stop crime.

Ready access to firearms makes a population safer, but only if a culture is prepared for their use.

I have spoken to people who unabashedly announced to me that "guns are inherently evil". With minds like that out there there can be no safety. Apparently knives, rope, bombs, poison etc. are "situation of use" items. OJ Simpson's knife, unlike a gun, was apparently not evil at the moment of manufacture.

The 9-11 terrorists had no guns, but if a passenger had had one and the courage to use it, we would probably have at lease one of the twin towers.
I suppose we should now enact a 15 day waiting period for box cutters and have people register small pocket knives.

The reality is that when violent crimes begin law enforcement brings guns to the scene and it is these guns that abate the threat.

If we adopted a culture where, when danger arose, people drew their firearms and came to the aid of a neighbor we would have a safer society. If posses of armed citizens (rather than lawyers) gathered at the courthouse when a serious crime was committed we would all be better off.

Instead we live in a "its not my fault" culture. After all, its not the killer who murdered those four mountys. It was the gun that made him do it. Had he not had access to that weapon everything would be alright. Right?

I say lets have guns everywhere. Lets execute (either on the spot or later) the people who kill with them.

In the old west they used to hand horse theives. Thus people learned not to steal horses.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 03.07.2005, 6:23am link
wow. late psot and all, but i just got back from seeing war of the worlds.

just wonderin' did anyone see the concert for africa? i saw it live 8 Uk girl. pretty awesome. couldn't actually be there because i woke up and the first thing in my mind is allergies and i spent the rest of the day with the mental capacity of a tomato. it was already a lazy day, but still, wasn't to bad. i had donuts!

and why do our conversations never include what the thread was originaly intended for?

i wish the USA was a little more enviromentelly concious. it's like the crazy texan from the simpsons: "enviroment? heck, we got rid of this enviroment years ago and we've been just fine!" it's funny cause we keep trying to save the planet while cutting down trees for desks so we can save the planet while cutting down trees for desks so we can save the planet while...i'm a little slow on the uptake, but i'm beginning to sense a pattern here. anyone else?

later days yo!
CJ , 03.07.2005, 6:34am link
"I have spoken to people who unabashedly announced to me that "guns are inherently evil". With minds like that out there there can be no safety. Apparently knives, rope, bombs, poison etc. are "situation of use" items. OJ Simpson's knife, unlike a gun, was apparently not evil at the moment of manufacture."

Sierra, the difference between knives and guns is that knives are necessary in everyday life. I do think there is a difference between guns and other lethal items because guns are designed specifically to kill. Rope is also necessary, and poison (albeit only certain types) are needed for pest control. I doubt you will find one gun control supporter who would advocate the public having bombs (exept mining companies etc.) but not guns.

"The reality is that when violent crimes begin law enforcement brings guns to the scene and it is these guns that abate the threat."
This is true, but if a population does not have accessto guns, then this hardly ever happens. Here in the UK, our police are not armed, and in extreme circumstances special armed squads are used. The average family does not have any guns, and needless to say, the murder rate is so much lower.

"I say lets have guns everywhere. Lets execute (either on the spot or later) the people who kill with them." So, you are advocating the abolishment of the fair trial. Wonderful idea. "Honest sir, I saw him shoot that guy! So I killed him! I didn't shoot them both!" Utter stupidity.

"In the old west they used to hand horse theives. Thus people learned not to steal horses." Great. Let's have the death penalty for petty crimes. Hooray for the police state! And if someone steals some bread, we can cut their hands off!
What next? The stocks? The rack? The Guillotine?
Latin_lover [Email], 03.07.2005, 1:29pm link
and why do our conversations never include what the thread was originaly intended for?


lmao.. was wondering the same thing.. :) Guess it got hopelessly derailed by trolls and now has moved on :p

I ahve no interest in owning a gun, and never will. However I agree with AA that the gun registry was a colossal waste of money, and will never work. When they first proposed it my first thought was 'how will that stop criminals from owning a gun?'
Gilgamesh , 03.07.2005, 3:34pm link
I'll hold on to their money for them ;).
wes [Email][Home], 03.07.2005, 5:41pm link
Latin:

"Sierra, the difference between knives and guns is that knives are necessary in everyday life."

So are guns. Guns are useful for self defense, and come in handy when one is hunting. Just because there are alternatives does not mean they are obsolete.

"I do think there is a difference between guns and other lethal items because guns are designed specifically to kill."

So. Are you saying that somehow makes them evil? Bug spray is designed to kill too.

"Here in the UK, our police are not armed, and in extreme circumstances special armed squads are used. The average family does not have any guns, and needless to say, the murder rate is so much lower."

Big deal. The population in large part is uable to defend themselves. If guns are a problem then without them the murder rate should be zero.


"So, you are advocating the abolishment of the fair trial. Wonderful idea. "Honest sir, I saw him shoot that guy! So I killed him! I didn't shoot them both!" Utter stupidity."

No, I advocate a society where we hold people accountable for their actions. I advocate the end to the "its not my fault" culture.

"Great. Let's have the death penalty for petty crimes. Hooray for the police state! And if someone steals some bread, we can cut their hands off! What next? The stocks? The rack? The Guillotine?"

Lets have the death penalty for appropriate circumstances AND enforce it quickly and publically.

I own 7 guns and plan on buying more. They will never be a threat to anyone. Gun control is bullshit.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 03.07.2005, 6:10pm link
Well done. You managed to miss my point on every issue. Insecticide is covered by my point on poisons. You can't kill a man with poison, I think it is a redundant point. Now, you have more of a point with knives which is why they are only sold to adults. They are dangerous, but they are neccesary. Guns are not. And you did advocate the end to fair trial by suggesting we execute people "on the spot".
As for your idea that the murder rate in the UK should be zero, I never made that claim. We do not need these things to defend ourselves, because we have seen that they cause so any more problems in reality than not having them does. You have ended up in a situation where you (think you) need guns to protect yourselves from those of you have bought guns!
Also, look at the statistics. The murder rate in countries which have banned the public ownership of guns without a license is so much lower. They do not help. Perhaps hudreds of years ago, when the government was less stable, they were more important, but now they are not.
Latin_lover [Email], 03.07.2005, 7:35pm link
"and why do our conversations never include what the thread was originaly intended for?" ... probably because some creationist cretin writes some total shit and everyone makes a big effort to answer them! Just ignore people like E_D (unless they're making some effort to say something intelligent).
But to answer previous questions -

Gun control wouldn't work in the US as there are already too many guns around (about three times the number of actual people I believe?). Things are different in the UK. There isn't a "gun culture" - because most people don't have guns, most criminals don't bother with them either (getting caught robbing someone's house will land you in fairly deep shit, but considerably less shit than if you end up shooting the occupants when discovered).
I've breifly written about this here:
http://www.timsellers.net/winston/2005/01/death-penalty-for-burglars.php
Tim [Home], 03.07.2005, 10:45pm link
... and pretty much anything CAN be used as a deadly weapon - but a gun's primary purpose is to kill people. It's more efficient than, say, a knife, and can be used at a distance.

And I'm 100% against the death "penalty" - for the reasons stated here (if you're interested):
http://www.timsellers.net/winston/2004/09/hang-em-and-flog-em.php
Tim [Home], 03.07.2005, 10:48pm link
Tim is right. If I need to defend my home I want to do it from a distance...through a wall or down a hall, not face to face with a knife. A gun is real useful thatway.

I am a competant gun owner. The most important thing is that they protect my neighbor too. By that I mean I stand ready to come to the aid of my neighbor. I will do so in a moments notice and have absolutely no problem using deadly force to protect them. I don't make up excuses how its not the bad guys fault (broken home, sad life, whatever).

I buy guns designed to kill and load them with the most lethal ammunition I can get.

The UK is probably tough on petty crime which probably gets a lot of people off the street early. In the US, if you haven't killed someone you pretty much are considered a petty criminal.

My entire philosophy toward the law is that people CAN behanve themselves if they are sufficiently well motivated to do so. By god I will motivate them.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 03.07.2005, 10:57pm link
The single most important thing guns do is they give people pause.

Most burglaries happen to people who the burglars became aware of.

Anyone who is aware of me knows I will blow their goddammed head off.

That gives them pause, they consider that possibility, and then pick another house...probably (sadly) of the guy who just moved here from the UK.

Therefore, my gun protects my home and does not even have to be removed from the holster.

Thats firearm efficiency!!!

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 03.07.2005, 11:01pm link
this reminds me of the gangs we have in my town. typical white side blue side red side sorta thing. we had a murder here a few months ago, and i'm pretty sure a gun was used.

oh and sierra, this reminds me of a story. one of my friends grandma took a cap pistol (the ones with the orange caps at the end of the barrel) took of the orange cap, and it looked so convincing after she touched it up a bit, two burglars decided to leave halfway through their crime when they find the old woman slept with a revolver six inches from her hand. the best part was she's a light sleeper.

if i'd own a gun, i'd use it as a scare tactic. maybe one bullet loaded if the SOB doesn't want to leave. then again, a bullet hole in their knee would only make it harder for them to leave.

reminds me of the family guy where they survive the nuclear winter after the Y2K thingy. they rebuild society and then peter decides to make guns. everyone calls him stupid for doing so, and his defense was "what would our founding fathers have done to solve their problems, hmm?"

Flash back: two presidenty looking guys take eleven steps, and then someone yells "TURN!" they promptly run up to eachother and begins to slap eachother senseless.

so, afer they burn the guns, they wonder what they would've used guns for anyways. as if to answer them, a billion mutated octopus tentacled stewies yell in unison VICTORY IS OURS! and promptly waste the entire town.

gun control in a nutshell :)
CJ , 04.07.2005, 2:45am link
A gun is just one part of a rational community.

Where do you want to live?...

1. Happyville. Happyville is "gods" country. There is a church on every corner. Criminals commit crimes because they haven't been shown enough love. Guns are inherently evil and seduce these poor lost sheep in gods flock. When they kill innocent people, the victims get to go to heaven for their reward. We can't judge the bad guy - thats gods role. We'll just confiscate the gun and get him some counseling.

or...

2. Realityville (where D lives). In realityville there are some bad people. Some are lazy, some are drug addicts and others just can't follow societys rules. Often, these people get guns or knives and try to commit crimes to forward their own ends. Fortunately D has a gun too. If one of these bad guys trys to take D's stuff or hurt him or his family, D will kill the bastard with his gun. He will not have any silly religous ideas about judgement and reward. There is just a bad guy and a good guy. If all goes well, D will kill the bad guy and, working with his neighbors, in that way we will have a safe town.

Lets live in realityville.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 04.07.2005, 5:05am link
Getting to this gun versus knives thing, I've always been amazed that people for some reason seem to associate guns with a higher degree of violence than knives. To me, it seems that a murder committed with a knife or bare hands, etc. is viciously personal, way more so than with a gun. It must take a lot of hatred or rage, to murder someone with your hands wielding a knife, or just punching the living sh*t out of somebody. I often wonder why in this country, these murderers are usually charged only with second degree murder or less, unlike murderers who use a gun who more often get charged with first degree murder.

A few years ago I did some of my own research into homocides in Canada with firearms versus other types, it seemed the most common factor in ALL was alcohol (over 60%), followed by domestic abuse(often a result of alcohol abuse). So does this mean we should ban alcohol? Obviously it's the biggest factor in Canada's murder rate. Again, see how it's easy to blame a 'thing' as the root cause of the 'problem'. The problem is the people in the equation, not the 'things'.

Guns, knives, poisons, ropes, even alcohol; all can be useful, all can be dangerous. It's how they are used that makes all the difference.

AA

PS. Happy 4th of July to my US neighbours from this Canadian. Please have a safe and happy secular holiday!
AccursedAtheist , 04.07.2005, 6:44am link
You are exactly right.

By the way, we get to celebrate the 4th because we had a lot of muskets and powder laying around when we needed them.

Thanks!!

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 04.07.2005, 7:17am link
Coming from the UK I cannot understand the US obsession with guns either. The problem, it seems to me from afar, is that in the US *anyone* can get a gun. Now Sierra says he is a responsible gun owner, fair enough, though promising to blow someone's head off sounds a mite extreme. But there are plenty of people out there who are, for want of a better expression, crazy. Now personally I would prefer to be attacked by a nutter with a knife because a) he has to be close to me so if I run away, I might live and, b) if he does get close to me I have a good opportunity to kick him as hard as I can in the balls, which will put him on the floor for a week. If said nutter has a gun it doesn't matter how far away he is, I'm still probably going to die.

I live in Japan now and curiously the police do carry guns but there is very little gun crime here, so I don't think it is a problem of arming the police means more violent gun crime. Maybe the Japanese have a more respectful attitude to life, or just prefer white collar crime, I don't know
bogue , 04.07.2005, 2:04pm link
Part of the problem with you guys is I think in the US you picture people all sitting on couches twirling their guns and shooting holes in the ceiling.

My 3 handguns are locked in a safe and come out about once a year for a good oiling/cleaning.

Occasionally I take the rifles camping deep in the Sierra Nevada mountains to target shoot.

Bogue talks about a guy attacking him with a knife. If, while this is happening, I can step out of a doorway with a gun, we can solve the problem.

The reality is that in many peoples perspective, mine included, one should not have to run. Many jurisdictions in the US are what they call no-retreat jurisdictions. It used to be that if you had a way out you had to take it (retreat) and only use deadly force as last resort. Very few of those are left.

Personally I will stand my ground and my guns ensure that you will stay on your side of the fence. Then we will all get along.

Again, if ONE person some of the planes had carried a gun on board we would not have lost nearly as much on 9-11.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 04.07.2005, 6:13pm link
actually (historical fix) our soldiers during the war when goege washington came into command was alerted each man had enoguh gun powder left for seven shots. that must've really sucked.

during a camping trip my cousin brought rifles and my dad explianed how powerful a rifle is. the overall human skull and all it's contents has the durability and strength of a head of lettuce. lettuce all over the place.

and just think, in a few more years, guns are going to become more powerful, and maybe even more illegal, but somehow a crazy psycho-path out there is going to get his hands on one. very secure country, isn't it?

happy fourth of july, and i don't know anything about cananada day! (lol! "cananada!")
CJ , 04.07.2005, 7:26pm link
"My 3 handguns are locked in a safe and come out about once a year for a good oiling/cleaning.
"

" If, while this is happening, I can step out of a doorway with a gun, we can solve the problem.
"

How can you do this when your guns are locked up? :p Sorry, couldn't resist.



There was a story in the news today taht someones house was broken into and their gun collection was stolen. Great.. now presumably registered guns are now in the hands of criminals.

1. The fellows guns didn't prevent the robbery.
2. The guns are now in the hands of the criminals.

Gun ownership? I don't get it personally..
Gilgamesh , 05.07.2005, 1:17am link
I can get to my guns in less than 30 sec. Only I can get them out of the house.

REMEMBER - a gun owning population was envisioned to protect that population from the government (hence the term militia). The British hated the militia but we won ourselves a country.

The rest is crap. I'm sure 200+ years ago from time to time one farmer took a shot at another too.

I know, I know....but times are not that different. People act like things like Hitler and the gestapo could not happen again.

Arm yourselves and be prepared to report when your contrymen call for the militia.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 05.07.2005, 2:21am link
Actually, there isn't so much of a gun obsession with the entire U.S....some individuals, yes. But to be honest, I know very few people who own firearms. Most are police officers, ex-military, or hunters. The rest of us don't own anything of higher caliber than a super-soaker or a paint-ball.

But...I think the ideals of gun ownership is more essential to the U.S. simply because of pioneer life. The U.K. had very few wild areas left before any European-human even reached California. So, for even the most pacifist of farmers, owning a firearm meant food on the table and keeping bears, wolves, cougars, fox, bobcats, coyote, badger, and wolverines out of your chicken coop. And its not just farms that are still being bothered by wild animals. My mom lives in an affluent area (higher salaries than our troll friends claim to have), and they've been terrorized by bobcats the past few years.
Dropinin , 05.07.2005, 8:54pm link
You are exactly right. Just because we have now adopted an "its not my fault" culture that absolves criminals of responsibility does not mean that guns are now "evil"

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 06.07.2005, 12:20am link
So God walks into a pub one day and says to Satan the Bartender, "Man that Dolly Parton has got some big tits!..." And Satan says...

Please add the punchline & post... Thanks!
anywherebutneverland [Email], 06.07.2005, 1:02am link
Sierra,
7 guns? Why so many? Militia's are not needed. Rule of law, and the courts is the better way.
Never been to yosmite, is it a nice place?
Gilgamesh,
you mentioned that trolls de-rail the issue in the blog and we shouldn't feed them. So why do you respond to brother ED? Trust me, he's a spoiled wealthy kid. I used to teach them when I taught high school math at a private school.
They think they are "hot shit" because of their fancy cars, homes and cottages.
timnot4me , 06.07.2005, 1:10am link
Hi Bogue,

you said "Now personally I would prefer to be attacked by a nutter with a knife because a) he has to be close to me so if I run away, I might live and, b) if he does get close to me I have a good opportunity to kick him as hard as I can in the balls, which will put him on the floor for a week. If said nutter has a gun it doesn't matter how far away he is, I'm still probably going to die."

I guess option #a is okay if you're 1)faster than the crazy with the knife or 2)far away with a big enough head start to get away. Option #b is okay if you're in physical shape to do so. But what if you are incapacitated, or perhaps suffer from a handicap ie., wheelchair bound. Remember the criminal element often picks the weaker, easier victim. Also you'd be suprised how poor most people are at hitting what they are aiming at, especially at a distance. I bet most murders with guns occur within a few yards of the shooter. Not saying guns aren't lethal at longer distances though.

I own guns, as do about 6-7 million other Canadians (about 20%), but only now for hunting. I'm a big enough guy 6'4", 220 pounds (193cm,100kg), in relatively good shape, that I'm probably not looked upon as a potential victim. However, I have no problem with people of smaller stature, or with physical detriments owning a firearm for self-defensive purposes. As an example, I used to own a farm, and the law in Canada at the time allowed for a loaded gun to be handy if certain wild animals could pose a hazard to life both human and livestock. We have a large number of coyotes in our area, and they hunt in packs, I've observed them running down a 200lb buck deer, and they attack livestock. My girlfriend is only 5'4", 120 lbs, and not physically strong and I often was away from the farm.She could easily be hurt or maybe even killed by a coyote. She has been trained in safe firearm use and has owned her own guns in the past. We kept a shotgun at the ready with buckshot in case of trouble with the coyotes. Luckily she never had to use it, but it's better to be prepared and not need it than the other way. I had to kill a coyote that was attacking a neighbour's newborn calf once though.I guess that's a difference in Canada (or the USA) than the UK or Japan, there are still numerous wild things here that can kill or hurt you.

I think the difference between our gun ownership and that in the US, is a culture thing. We Canadians seem a little calmer as a society, without the frontier attitude that some Americans have. We view guns more as a tool ie., to put food on the table or livestock protection, in our heritage, than as a weapon. Most guns in Canada are hunting rifles and shotguns (90%+), whereas about 50% of guns in the USA are handguns. I think that makes a big difference.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 06.07.2005, 5:51am link
Hi Dropinin,


you said:"My mom lives in an affluent area (higher salaries than our troll friends claim to have), and they've been terrorized by bobcats the past few years."

A good non-lethal way to keep bobcats away is a good hunting-type dog, like a hound or tree-walker as firearms are probably not a option in her neighbourhood. Bobcats are usually terrified of dogs like that. They'll probably leave the area with a dog like that around. Coyotes and wolves, especially in packs, however are often not deterred by any dogs.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 06.07.2005, 5:57am link
Hi AA

I take your point but I still think that a society that doesn't have ready access to firearms will be better for it. This is, I realise, because I am European and have been brought up in a specific culture that is different to the North American model, hence I do not want to get all 'evangelical' about guns, as some people do.

Though I like to try and understand it sometime, although I think this unlikely. Having said that, semi/fully automatic assault rifles? I cannot conceive how these could come under the hunting and/or self preservation banner but they are, from what I know, quite easily avaiable in the US. What is that all about?
bogue , 06.07.2005, 12:38pm link
Unfortunately, AA, poodles, dachshunds, and other toys are the preferred dogs in THAT neighborhood. I seriously doubt they wouldn't even look at getting a weapon. Some of those ladies probably don't even know where their kitchen knives are.

Okay...God walks into a bar and says to Satan the bartender, "Man that Dolly Parton has big tits!"
Satan says, "Thanks again, God. But I designed trees for you, too...couldn't you talk about them once in a while?"

(Lame, I know...best I could think of.)

Here's a better joke. Three nuns go to Heaven. St. Peter is standing by a pool of water before the pearly gates. Peter says to the three, "If you have committed a sin, please place the offending body part in the pool of water, and you shall be cleansed."
The first nun looks down, ashamed. "I touched a man."
"Then place your hand in the water, and you shall be cleansed of that sin."
The third nun taps the second nun on the shoulder. "Could I cut in line?" She asks.
"Sure." The second nun says. "But why?"
"Because I'd like to gargle before you sit in it."
Dropinin , 06.07.2005, 1:50pm link
Thank You DROPININ !

All, please keep the irreverent jokes posting. People need to laugh and religion is as good a topic as any.

Here's a joke I stole:

The Atheist, A Bear And God

An atheist was walking through the woods, admiring all that the
"accidents" that evolution had created.

"What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What beautiful animals!" he
said to himself.

As he was walking alongside the river he heard a rustling in the bushes
behind him. Turning to look, he saw a 7-foot grizzly bear charge towards
him.

He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder
and saw the grizzly was closing.

Somehow, he ran even faster, so scared that tears came to his eyes. He
looked again and the bear was even closer.

His heart was pounding and he tried to run faster. He tripped and fell
to the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up but the bear was right
over him, reaching for him with its left paw and raising its right paw
strike him.

At that instant the atheist cried, "Oh my God...!"

Time stopped. The bear froze. The forest was silent.
Even the river stopped moving.

As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky,
"You deny my existence for all these years, teach others that I don't exist
and even credit creation to a cosmic accident. Do you expect me to help
you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?"

The atheist looked directly into the light, "It would be hypocritical to
ask to be religious after all these years, but perhaps you could make
the bear religious?"

"Very well" said the voice.

The light went out. The river ran. The sounds of the forest resumed.

..and then the bear dropped his right paw, brought both paws together
and bowed its head and spoke: "Lord, for this food which I am about to
receive, I am truly thankful..."
anywherebutneverland [Email], 06.07.2005, 5:11pm link
The Godidiot, A Bear And God

An Godidiot was walking through the woods, admiring all that the
"Miricles" that god had created.

"What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What beautiful animals!" he
said to himself.

As he was walking alongside the river he heard a rustling in the bushes
behind him. Turning to look, he saw a 7-foot grizzly bear charge towards
him.

He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder
and saw the grizzly was closing.

Somehow, he ran even faster, so scared that tears came to his eyes. He
looked again and the bear was even closer.

His heart was pounding and he tried to run faster. He tripped and fell
to the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up but the bear was right
over him, reaching for him with its left paw and raising its right paw
strike him.

At that instant the atheist cried, "Oh my God...!"


And the bear ripped him to shreads because GOD DOES NOT EXIST....

Well I laughed!
redfred [Home], 06.07.2005, 5:45pm link
Jesus and Peter are celebrating Jesus’ recent reincarnation with a spot of bass fishing on the sea of Galilee. They get out into the middle of the lake and Peter suddenly exclaims “shit, I forgot the beer” pointing at the cooler on the shore. “No worries” replied Jesus calmly “I’ll get them”. Jesus stands up mutters a short prayer to his dad and steps off the boat onto the surface of the water. Voom he sinks like a stone, 30 seconds latter he comes spluttering back to the surface and Peter grabs him and drags him back onto the boat, coughing and spluttering. “Jesus! What the hell were you thinking?” Jesus looked blank, “I don’t understand” muttered the messiah “it worked perfectly well before they put these fucking holes in my feet”
redfred [Home], 06.07.2005, 7:43pm link
on a serious note, We have a malitia in the US, it is called the national guard, while I am not an anti gun proponent, I don't think the Malitia is a good reason for owning a gun.
redfred [Home], 06.07.2005, 8:03pm link
Thank you redfred for the laughs!

Life is so serious that laughing at it helps me get through the tough times. People who can't laugh are the true lost souls.

Speaking of lost souls... where's eternal_damnation? His comments are the funniest. E_D! Come home!

On gun control... In a Republic (aka democracy), the will of the people should regionally decide what is right for them. Any & all referendums should be put to a popular vote. If the city of L.A. votes "own a gun - go to jail," then maybe gun owners will have to move out of LA. If the state of Arizona votes "don't wear a sidearm - go to jail," well then maybe the pussies will have to move out of Arizona.

Thanks Tim (again) for this website. It's a lot of fun.
anywherebutneverland [Email], 07.07.2005, 12:30am link
For you Brother ED. I shouldn't be doing this , but this is for everyone on this webboard.

Bible translations that do not teach eternal torment:


http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
Timnot4me , 07.07.2005, 12:50am link
ok, my turn for a joke.

one day, jesus and satan get into an argument about who has more influence in todays world, so god sets them a challenge to determine who is the master of today. the challenge is who can write the best computer program in an hour, so god gives them both computers, turns them on, and the minute they're done starting up, they begin to write the best program they can.

about fifteen mintues before they run out of time, tradgedy strikes, and their power goes out. when they reboot, satan notices he has lost all his progress on his program. looking over, he sees jesus has a huge website with angels singing, all that jesusy crap.

after they run out of time, satan has a wimpy flaming "join me in my quest for power" sign, while jesus has already ahd a hundred visits to his website.
satan asks god "how did jesus write such a huge program after the black out? all my stuff was erased!" god smiles and says "jesus saves"

don't know about you, but i thought that was pretty funny.
learned it actually from one my christian friends. the loving kind you can get easily along with and doesn't try to convert you, the awesome kind.

LMAO!
CJ , 07.07.2005, 6:20am link
E_D! Come Home! I miss your comments! The following is from a site I visited...

Making comparisons.

In Heaven:
The cooks are French,
The policemen are English,
The mechanics are German,
The lovers are Italian,
The bankers are Swiss.

In Hell:
The cooks are English,
The policemen are German,
The mechanics are French,
The lovers are Swiss,
The bankers are Italian.

In Computer Heaven:
The management is from Intel,
The design and construction is done by Apple,
The marketing is done by Microsoft,
IBM provides the support,
Gateway determines the pricing.

In Computer Hell:
The management is from Apple,
Microsoft does design and construction,
IBM handles the marketing,
The support is from Gateway,
Intel sets the price.
anywherebutneverland [Email], 07.07.2005, 10:12am link
Religion is a joke. Give it its' due course.

A Minister, A Priest And A Rabbi.

A minister, a priest and a rabbi went for a hike one day. It was very hot.
They were sweating and exhausted when they came upon a small lake.
Since it was fairly secluded, they took off all their clothes and
jumped in the water.

Feeling refreshed, the trio decided to pick a few berries while enjoying
their "freedom." As they were crossing an open area, who should come
along but a group of ladies from town. Unable to get to their clothes in
time, the minister and the priest covered their privates and the rabbi
covered his face while they ran for cover.

After the ladies had left and the men got their clothes back on, the
minister and the priest asked the rabbi why he covered his face rather
than his privates. The rabbi replied, "I don't know about you, but in
MY congregation, it's my face they would recognize."

"You may say I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one..." - John Lennon
anywherebutneverland [Email], 07.07.2005, 10:22am link
Thanks for the laughs, guys. On this tragic morning, we could all use something to brighten our days. The Al Qaeda attack on London this morning is a pure example of how religious extremism is dangerous to everyone within its reach, and how paficism towards it from the inside doesn't make it go away.
Hoping my new U.K. friends, and theirs as well, are allright.
Dropinin , 07.07.2005, 2:09pm link
My heart's best wishes to you Tim and your country. The news sucks. Good luck with all the crap. Zealots faithfully believing they are doing good in God's name is one of humanity's biggest threats.
anywherebutneverland [Email], 07.07.2005, 4:53pm link
my mate was in london today and is now stranded there, she was nearly on the underground but she missed her train to buy some fags so she was very lucky. Sierra, post me your gun so i can shoot myself some terrorists, no-one attacks my country and gets away with it.
uk girl , 07.07.2005, 5:32pm link
EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY.

Its time we get our guns, form a goddammed skirmish line and kill some goddammed towel heads.

I HATE those islamers.

I am behind you guys 100%. Hang in there!!!!

Now strike back hard against these bastards.

This is what guns are handy for. These guys did not use guns and look how many were killed.

Death to islam, the fasle bullshit religion of a whoring murderous group of child-molesting, women abusing cowards.

If I could I'd send a cowboy hat, boots and a 45 with a gun belt to everyone in the UK.

Lets kill the islamers.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 07.07.2005, 6:01pm link
hold on there sierra, not all islamers are bad. your condeming millions of people due to the action of a few. I know it was an awful tragedy this morning and hopefully everyone from london i know are safe, but i dont feel that we should break out the 12-guages and blow away every asian person just because a few are evil.

If your thinking like that then shouldnt we kill every christian on the planet ( over a billion people) because some of their priests are paedophiles.
Dodge , 07.07.2005, 6:54pm link
Sounds good to me. I don't care whether or not people are good or bad, just whether or not they follow a philosophy.

As long as we have islamers (or christians) their philosophy will breed more of the same.

I say kill them all now before there are more.

If you start killing them in large numbers, the ones that are left will do everything they can to stop the fundamentalism lest they be killed themselves.

I say play the game on their level. The people in the subway are innocent too.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 07.07.2005, 7:00pm link
its not the subway, it was the london underground, we dont have subways, theres a difference. Yes they were innocent ppl down there and i hope the people responsible are brought to justice, but that still does not give anyone the right to start a holy crusade against islamers.

if you think like that go ahead and kill everyone religious, then lets watch the world break down as 4/5ths of the pupulation are wiped out, economies will collapse, the world would break into total chaos, then we would all eventually die.

maybe you should start caring whether people are good or bad, your attitude will only lead to racial hatred which will only make our situation worse.
Dodge , 07.07.2005, 7:21pm link
Picking targets carefully only works when the other side is doing it too. When they kill indiscriminently the only way to combat it is to do the same.

Its like WWII. We bombed GERMANY. We rained bombs down on them. We did not sit back and try to only target the military or its officers.

We need to do the same thing now. I would give ANYTHING if we could find a couple of guys who could fly a 747 into mecca.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 07.07.2005, 7:31pm link
yeah that'l work, turn the handful off terrorists attacking us into WW3, us versus the intire middle east. I see youve really thought about that one. Thats making the situation slightly worse dont you think?

You may not have noticed but we are not fighting a war on the same scale as WW2. We bombed Germany as they were doing the same to us, we would attack the terrorists but there not an army, they have no home country that we can invade so its up to police and intelligence services to hunt them down. We cannot point the finger at a nation or a religion for the actions of a few within that country.
Dodge , 07.07.2005, 7:41pm link
I'm back from the cottage and couldn't believe the news. I love the UK and the US, they are our friends and all canadians should stand with them.
Sierra, your absolutely right. Fight fire with fire. Make the price of terrorism too high to pay for these islamic nutjobs. Dodge, keep in mind, that to your muslim friends, your an infidel.
Islam is a clear and present danger to civilized societies and must be disposed of along with it's believers.
eternal_damnation , 08.07.2005, 12:05am link
On the contrary my friend, today in London they sought to hold the rank-and-file brit accountable for the actions of the few (the government?). That was the problem with 9-11. The US has been fighting WWIII, we just never knew it. The terrorists are sure fighting it.

Lets do the same to them.

Part of the reason people like me own guns and what not is we believe "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

The Brits are a strong people and I will stand with them and count myself among their number no matter what.

Its time to take the musket down from over the fireplace and join with your neighbor.

Death to islam so we can be free.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 08.07.2005, 12:10am link
You know Dodge, the thing I don't get is I can sense the apprehension in your text about striking at an islamic symbol. You truly fear getting them worked up don't you?

They did not seem to worry about getting us worked up. THe struck at the WTC beacuse they felt is was an American capitalist symbol.

Why the hell are we so worried about them. SCREW THEM.

Islam is a cheap whoring imitation religion that spreads poverty, death and abuse.

Kill them all now.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 08.07.2005, 12:20am link
Sierra, as an American living in Canada, I stand with you and pledge my allegiance to homeland security.
I agree with you 100%. Bomb these nuts back to the stone age.
If you kill 50 million of them using tactical nukes everytime they do a terrorist act, the price of their terrorism will be to much to bear.
F*** these nuts.
eternal_damnation , 08.07.2005, 12:38am link
ED... trouble is there aren't 50 M of "them" and they are scattered to the wind, many in our own countries, and for the most partindestinguishable from regular citizens. nuking Baghdad or Teran will only kill thousands of innocents like those killed today in London.
redfred , 08.07.2005, 4:23am link
Redfred, it's a war and innocent civilians may die. The governments of those countries aid and abet these terrorist groups. They must held accountable and the tactical nuking of their major cities will make them accountable.
We have nuclear weapons than they have suicide bombers. If a suicide bomber takes out a bus in NY, then give Iran, and other islamic nations, 48 hours to hand over the group or individuals responsible. If they don't tactically nuke, their cities. We must teach these worthless nutjobs, that they will pay dearly for f****** with us.

To hell with Islam.
F*** Allah and Mohammed. I would love to strap both of them on a daisy cutter and drop it over mecca and meddina.
eternal_damnation , 08.07.2005, 4:41am link
Sierra, sorry I misjudged you. Your ideas make sense. Sorry it took me so long to understand.
eternal_damnation , 08.07.2005, 4:44am link
I take a bow.

The problem with these nuts is none of them are innocent. Innocence is a matter of degrees. The clerics who preach this shit are just a guilty as the people who sit in the place, listen and do nothing to stop it.

Remember, they seek to hold every US citizen guilty of what they don't like. How is it unfair to do the same to them.

I don't even care about making the price of terrorism too high. I simply want to eradicate islam the same way I would a computer virus or a bunch of cows with mad cow.

To me its really a matter of whether or not they are infected. If they are they should be put down.

One of the only religous lines I like came from a priest at the battle of pearl harbor. The guns were sealed and there was no ammo on deck so the me formed "bucket brigades" to try to bring ammo up for the .50 cal guns on deck. A priest in line was quoted as saying "praise the lord and pass the ammo". Only slightly better is the famous cowboy line "god made men - Colt made them all equal".

I stand with Britian and my allies against all comers.

Bring the bastards on.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 08.07.2005, 5:50am link
Hi Dodge,

you said:" We cannot point the finger at a nation or a religion for the actions of a few within that country"

I disagree, you CAN point the finger at a religion in this case. If these attacks are done by islamists, then obviously that religion is guilty. Any followers of a pedophilliac thieving, madman's (mohammed) xenophobic, lunatic rantings, known as the quran, that DO INCLUDE commands to kill the non-believer, are a threat to much of humanity on this planet.

Islam is a threat not only to the 'west', but to it's followers as well. Many millions of muslims are apocalyptic safalists, a belief system that would love to see the rest of the world enslaved to their imaginary diety worship, or dead if they don't convert.Should we respect that? That's a personal threat to me and my loved ones. I really don't like that. I say F#ck their beliefs. Islamic nations could easily have changed their own destiny in the past to choose a more secular lifesyle, instead they choose a backwards, goat-herding, women-hating, belief system. If they choose to continue to believe the teachings of islam, they will most likely pay to keep doing so.

Religion is DIRECTLY responsible for the unfortunate and innocent deaths in London today. To deny that is a LIE.
Religion is B#//sh*t, although islam also has the blood of innocents on it's death-loving hands.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 08.07.2005, 6:50am link
Hi Sierra,

you said:"The clerics who preach this shit are just a guilty as the people who sit in the place, listen and do nothing to stop it."

Exactly, just look at the result of the common islamist in the street when the story broke of the 'possible' desecration of their stupid 'holey' book: their own countrymen dead in riots over it. WTF? I mean they don't head to the streets protesting planes into buildings, or bombs on trains, but for a f#cking rumour over a f#cking stupid book! These are the same f#ckers who were dancing for joy in the streets on 9/11. If that's a peaceful belief system, I'd say anyone who defends that belief system needs to re-examine their worldview. Via JDAMS. Or whatever ordinance is handy. If the eastern europeans could unshackle themselves from under the Soviet Union's iron fist (a heavily armed superpower!), I think disposing of a couple of weak, flabby, clerics or corrupt royal shiekdom should be a piece of piss if the will was there. Oh, my bad...it's allah's will, at least that's what they seem to claim.

Religion is B#//sh*t!


AA
AccursedAtheist , 08.07.2005, 7:31am link
One mushroom cloud over Damascus would shut the whole f'in world up. Saudia Arabia would lower their price of oil to the west, the un-bombed area of Syria would become democratic, and the French would whine. One mushroom cloud over Damascus.

Unfortunately I believe violence begets violence... but when faced with an insane retard one has to fight like an insane retard. The nazis and the japanese were whipped because we matched their fanaticism.
anywherebutneverland [Email], 08.07.2005, 8:06am link
"my mate was in london today and is now stranded there, she was nearly on the underground but she missed her train to buy some fags so she was very lucky."

Sorry, I had to laugh at the fact that smoking actually saved your mate's life. (Lights one up). Take that, national smoke out.

"that still does not give anyone the right to start a holy crusade against islamers."

My first thought has a tendency to be, "Make Glass" as well. Unfortunately, that's exactly what the Islamists want: a Holy war so they can go to Heaven and collect their virgins. The world against them. Why make them happy? However, I disagree with this statement:

" We cannot point the finger at a nation or a religion for the actions of a few within that country"

Actually, we can. I made mention of it, but didn't elaborate. You see, in the industrialized nations, those who would become Christian terrorists are held in check not only by people on the outside of the Christian faith (i.e. people like us), but they are also held in check from the INSIDE. Christian liberals and moderates who put them in their place. That's one reason why we have so few of them. Its time for those countries to quit coddling their clergy, to quit silencing the opposing voices, and stand up to these *&^$ers. Arresting just the terrorists themselves isn't enough. They need to use the tactics that they normally use against the opposing voice...go in in the middle of the night and arrest them, take them to a dark dungeon, and forget to give them a trial. I don't always go for liberal causes myself, but I think a shot in the butt with liberalism would do go for those countries. They need some hippies. Hmmm...a tie-dye burkha. Now that would be grand. Hey, the Koran says nothing against taking 'shrooms. Wonder if we could....accidentally send them some.
Dropinin , 08.07.2005, 12:08pm link
Sierra we cannot strike at islam as a whole bacause of a few evil people saying there acting under islam. The majority of islamers are nice peacful people who have done nothing wrong, attacking these people would not only cause a huge moral outcry everywhere across the world, but it would also serve to strengthen the terrorists numbers as we would be proving them right. The more you strike down, the more that will rise up against you. What are you going to do about all the peacful americans that believe in islam, theyve done nothing wrong, do you want to line them up and shoot them because of events they had nothing to do with? Your looking for revenge in the wrong places. As much as i want these bastards to be brought to justice, killing more innocent people will not make things right again. Two wrongs dont make a right.

Islam is not a threat to the west, the terrorist cells are, there is a huge difference between the two. Islam is a peacful religion that has been distorted so terrorists think they have the right to attack.

You do realise that America is indirectly responsible for terrorism by fucking up the world and interfering with the middle east, they have made life worse for people there by meddling with their religion and culture.

With your logic i suppose we should nuke ireland because of the IRA? fuck the millions of innocents, the IRA blew up warrington (where i am) and manchester, lets kill all the irish cunts for shits n giggles.
Dodge , 08.07.2005, 1:43pm link
Dodge, your an idiot.
ISLAM = GARBAGE!!!! They are not peaceful, and they preach hate.

Your an infidel to them. You either must die or be converted at the sword.

I'm with Brother Sierra all the way. I'm an american , born in New Jersey and proud of it.

UK girl, be strong. I'm still coming to london in October. These Islamic nutjobs are not scaring me away. I'll be spending my tourist money on tourism.

Canadians, shouldn't be so complacent thinking that this can't happen in canada. Canada needs a division of homeland security. Thank God the US will protect us if anything should happen.

Long live the US and Britain, the two best countries in the world.

Sierra should the prime minister of Canada.
eternal_damantion , 08.07.2005, 2:35pm link
A better approach maybe is to go after those who preach hate in the mosques. Go after the muslim schools that are teaching this crap to their youth. make it against the law to splread their kind of hate (OH WaiT, IT ALREADY IS) and ENFORCE the damn law! Lock up the imams and mullahs who splread hate. Expose the teachers who encourage their kids into a life of terrorism, and teach hate.

This has to be stopped. World War 3 is coming thanks to these yahoos.

Islam is only as peaceful as the peple who preach it. And the people these days who preach it are preaching hate and distruction. Shut them down. Allow peaceful ones to stay.

Get Packistan and other middle east countries to shut down their schools by force and reform them. Palistinian children are being taught that people who are not like them deserve to die. People in CANADA are being taught this. A kid in a muslim school in Ottawa wrote a story glorifying amrtyrdom and attacks on Jews. What happened? The teachers PRAISED HIM! Shut down the damn schools!
Gilgamesh , 08.07.2005, 2:50pm link
"Your an infidel to them. You either must die or be converted at the sword"

E_D Technically we are infidels to you too.. lol

But aside from that, I agree, these nuts need to be taken down and taught a lesson. Enough is enough.

Don't do it on their terms though! They WANT world war! They thing their fantasy God is on their side and they will win. Shut down their recruiting stations (ie mosques and schools) Make sure they cna't recruit any more people.


On a side note,. just curious E_D whereabouts is your cottage?
Gilgamesh , 08.07.2005, 2:55pm link
e_d your a fucking moron, words cannot describe how utterly retarded you are. Open your eyes and discard your media stereotypes, not all islamers are evil the vast majority are nice people what you claim you want to do is like wiping out ireland because of the IRA or destroying america because of pro-life terrorists. Would you do that? no, because these are white ppl and you understand their culture, even though these ppl have committed awful atrocities.
Islam is rising up against the West because of america. you are indirectly responsible for every terrorist action via your foreign policies. The only reason why the rest of the world is under attack is because we are supporting you and your bullshit "take over the middle east for oil and lie about the reasons" campaign. I couldnt give a shit if youd stick by the UK, i want you to know if i had the choise id drop the whole load of you degenerate retards in a second if i had the choice, that way british lives would be saved. Read the above comments by other ppl and tell me you really want to wipe out hundreds of millions of innocent people because they believe in a different god to you. Think about it, i mean really think. Are you going to justify the slaughter of hundreds of millions of innocent peacful people to get back at a handful or terrorists. People like you are the problem with the world today, you need to realise that america isnt the centre of the world, maybe if you tried to tackle the reasons why the rest of the world hates you so much instead of trying to act all macho then we wouldnt be in this predicement.



Im sorry if ive offended any of you decent americans, i know there are a few of you out there with the intelligence to think for yourself.
Dodge , 08.07.2005, 3:04pm link
can you just clear this up for me? Is this what you're saying - We should nuke the east murder a few million to get rid of like every 1/10,000 people?
smashtv , 08.07.2005, 3:16pm link
No one seems to have commented on Dodge's point - should the UK attack Ireland because of the IRA? It's exactly the same thing. While a muslim fundamentalist is likely to be more dangerous than a christian one, not all religious people are fundamentalists.

The problem with the more conservative / right-wing people is that they think in black and white and argue from the floodgates ("once one muslim blows something up you can guarantee that soon all of them will do it so let's kill em all now")
Tim [Home], 08.07.2005, 3:49pm link
Tim

Thanks for the site, it has been interesting.

However in response to the majority of the commenters above, there is too much hate here now. Too much vengance, too much retribution. Too much old testament eye-for-an-eye nonsense to make it worth coming here anymore.

As a Brit I hope that people like Sierra never stand shoulder to shoulder with us (or whatever expression he used).

Over the entrance to the temple of the Oracle of Delphi in ancient Greece was written "know thyself", if a few more people in the world - americans, christians, muslims, terrorists, whoever - took heed of this and looked deep inside then maybe things might change. But as long as we have idiots exhorting the mob to kill all the 'persons different from me' then, well, we're fucked.

So, join up to your country's military and go and kill some foreigners if you want to. Put your balls where your mouth is. But it won't solve a thing. And your children, if the world is unfortunate enough to be blessed with them, will more than likely be spouting the same crap all over again.

And so it goes on, and on, and on and on...
bogue , 08.07.2005, 3:52pm link
Some people like Bogue will always be willing to surrender their freedom to appease others that are violent nasty people. I'm sure that Bogue now is wondering what he did to cause the bombing and would like to apologize to the terrorists.

Not me.

Some people simply will not live in peace. There is only one way to deal with them. The has only ever been one way to deal with them.

Remember all the fun peace-loving nazis?

Death to islam and a special death to those who believe it.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 08.07.2005, 4:09pm link
Bogue is not willing to surrender his freedom, he is just not willing to surrender other innocent peoples freedom for the sake of revenge. Terrorists need to be brought to justice but not in the way you suggest. If an american person commits a murder in the UK and we cant catch him does that justify me going to america and murdering as many americans as possible? no it doesnt, but this is what your suggesting we do with islamers. Just because they have a different culture and belief system does not give you the right to treat them like dirt. You are ignorant and know nothing about them, you assume that they all want to kill us as "infidels", when will you learn that they DONT. Your judging entire nations on the actions of a few. If all muslims thought like that then why is it that most middle eastern countries are supporting america in their war against terrorism instead of declaring war on them?

bogue i think youve put it perfectly, people need to open their eyes to the world insteads of shutting themselves off. Ignorance will only lead to hatred and war, which will not solve anything. Americas macho attidude only helps to add fuel to the fire.
Dodge , 08.07.2005, 4:33pm link
Sierra, you've missed both Dodge's and Bogue's points completely. And following on from what RedFred said earlier, should the US military attack the US - after all, plenty of muslims around (and potential terrorists are more likely to be there rather than sitting around in their own country).
Tim [Home], 08.07.2005, 4:34pm link
... and revenge and justice are not the same thing.
Tim [Home], 08.07.2005, 4:41pm link
Sierra if i gave you a knife and a 5 year old girl from the middle east whould you slit her throte? As that's what you are proposing others do in your name.
smashtv , 08.07.2005, 4:58pm link
Dodge,

Your example is not perfect. If I declare war on the UK and start planting bombs, and the US aids me, yes, I thnk you can strike back at the US.

Tim,

You would be suprised just how often you can accomplish revenge and justice with the same act.

The US would not need to attack US muslims....we (the militia) could do that ourselves.

Lastly, regarding the little girl - would it be wrong to hold her to the same standard as her faith hold others?

There is no god.

Britania rules the waves. The US will bring the guns!!

D
Sierra [Email], 08.07.2005, 5:39pm link
Also gang, we have tried it your way for what - 50 years - and we still get terrorist bombs.

Whaddya say we try in my way for say - 10 years - and see if we can't clean it up a bit.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 08.07.2005, 5:41pm link
im sorry, tell me again (and show me evidence for) which countries condone and support terrorism?
Your saying that you would hold a 5yr old girl accountable for the actions of a complete stranger to her? last time i checked america stood for freedom and fairness (ahem.. except for when it suits them e.g guantanimo), i dont see either of these two qualities in this.
And your saying you will kill muslims in your country, even though these people may be as patriotic and against terrorism like you, they're guilty by association? again where is the freedom and fairness in this? whatever happened to peoples rights to a fair trial? If this is your way of doing things, then i, as with any other intelligent person will want nothing to do with it. If your way was attempted i think you'll find yourself up against the rest of the world, UK and europe included in that as we are not a barbaric society.
The only way revenge and justice can be accomplished by the same act is if you take the law into your own hands, which is illegal. Countries have laws inplace so that morons like you dont go about killing innocent people and trying to justify it with bullshit.

If were playing the guilt by association game then shouldnt we nuke germany/austria/japan/italy for attacking us in WW1 and WW2, shouldnt we nuke france for attacking us in the 100yr war etc.. , shouldnt we nuke argentina for trying to take the faukland islands off us, should we nuke america for starting a war for independence, should we nuke iraq for the gulf wars???? the list goes on and on. The answer to these are NO, and do you know why? because these people are innocent, they just like the people you propose to kill. your logic is fundementally flawed and the sooner you realise this the better.

id appreciate it if youd stop saying how much "we rule" and how youd support us with guns etc, we do not need weapons, we do not want help from the likes of you. Id think you'll find the entire british public will be against you and you narrow minded view of the world on this one.
Dodge , 08.07.2005, 6:20pm link
Hi, I'm fairly new here but I just want to comment on the nukes. If we did nuke say Iran or a similar country wouldn't that give others reason to nuke the US as well? They don't want to be nuked themselves so maybe they might nuke the US first. This may start a chain reaction and lead to even more war. Given the number of "weapons of mass destruction" in the world I wouldn't be so trigger-itchy. That is just the opinion of one Californian citizen.
CyberDragoon , 08.07.2005, 7:05pm link
I have been reading all of your comments about Muslims and the religion of Islam and all I’ve got to say is you lot are a bunch of pathetic, IGNORANT and ill-mannered fools! U have no right whatsoever to judge the religion of Islam. Have any of you even bothered to take time out from your endless ranting and actually done something productive, for example, read translations of the Quraan instead of making up your own bullsh*t about it. I’d like to see a VALID translation of the Quraan stating that Muslims should kill all non-believers. I am Muslim (and darn proud of it!) and never in my life have been told to kill a non-believer or even to hate or not socialise with a non-believer. The majority of my friends are white Christians and thank God they’re not so narrow-minded as yourselves, because they all respect my religion and my way of life and they treat me exactly how they would like to be treated.

You cowards have no right to judge our Holy Book, since none of you have bothered to even research into it… You all go by what you’ve heard on the news or read in the newspapers… Don’t you guys know … that’s all one-sided BULLSH*T! None of you have probably ever bothered to befriend a Muslim and actually listen to their view or their side of the story and what its like to be brought up having everyone hate you. Just imagine what its like being one of us… Not being able to voice our opinions and the love we have for our religion without being called a “fundamentalist.” It really makes me upset to read all your comments. I didn’t think in this day and age people could be so rude and ill-bred. Its worrying for me and my fellow Muslims, as we don’t know what’s going to happen next…We constantly live in fear, when we shouldn’t have to, as we are all EQUAL in this world and that is what the religion of ISLAM has taught.. NOT TO KILL NON-BELIEVERS but to respect other religions and treat everyone equally. Oh and as for the Al-Quaeda… that is a small group of fundamentalists (who I personally don’t agree with) who are using Islam as grounds for their actions. This is not right, but its also NOT right to judge ALL Muslims and to narrow-mindedly think that we are all like that…That’s really pathetic of you people.

You all talk as if you know everything about the religion of Islam and all of its teachings…not even I, a practising Muslim can say I know everything about it, but one thing I know for sure is that its all about PEACE…something you morons obviously don’t know about. I just think its amazing how easy it is for you all to judge a religion, without hardly knowing anything about it, apart from what you‘ve heard in the media…That’s pathetic…Didn’t your parents bring you up better then that? You’re all uneducated individuals who hear the word ‘terrorist’ and automatically associate that word with Islam…its sad….very sad. I’m just so thankful to God that me nor my family has ever had a religious attack against us, however I do fear for the future and I wish I didn’t have to.

Also I’d just like to say thanks to DODGE for sticking up for Islam…it’s really nice to know that broad-minded people like yourself still exist in this world. I’m truly grateful for all your comments.
Xainy , 08.07.2005, 9:24pm link
Xainy,

As a practicing muslim I can only imagine the murderous rage that fills you and is preached by your stupid cleric(s).

I think the muslim world is doing a great job of voicing its views.

1. You NEVER see a muslim nation arresting ANYONE.
2. Al Jazerra is a NICE mouthpiece for terrorists (talk about one-sided journalism)
3. Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, etc all sponsor terrorists of one sort or another.
4. There are no big pro-freedom anti-terrorism rallys
5. The only people muslims kill at a faster rate that foreigners is other muslims.

I urinate on your faith, your holy book and that philandering whore mohammed. Its all violent, abusive, bullshit.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 08.07.2005, 9:49pm link
Sierra,

To be honest, I don’t really give a flying sh*t about any of your views… because I’ve been reading all your comments and it seems that your targeting hatred towards ALL religions, which as I’ve said before NOONE and I mean NOONE has the right to do so…Plus Sierra I’d rather talk to someone who is of the same intellectual level as myself, not an uneducated retard like yourself.

You slander religions left, right and centre like as though you have all the knowledge in the world about each and every religion? Who are you to judge? Are you a religious scholar? I think not…You are merely a twisted loser who has nothing better to do in their life then to point fingers at innocent people and blame them for all things bad… You need to grow up and get your facts right…You sound like you’re still in high school.

Sierra: “As a practicing muslim I can only imagine the murderous rage that fills you and is preached by your stupid cleric(s).”

…Muderous rage? I have no murderous rage within me whatsoever…I am no killer. Judging from your previous comments you’re the one who’s going on about killing Muslims…Who’s the killer now huh?!

Its really saddening to hear about the tragic events in London and 9/11. But have you ever stopped to think for one second about the hundreds and thousands of innocent people killed in Iraq and Afghanistan… And were any weapons of mass destruction found?…NO! Who are the real murderers?

Anyway Sierra sounds like you’re just a racist who can’t see beyond colour or belief.
Xainy , 08.07.2005, 10:27pm link
Puhleeeeeze.....

You aren't going to give me the "stoop to your intellectual level" bullshit are you?

Get real.

All religion is bad. All religion is dangerous. Islam is just particularly bad and shitty.

I'm not a racist. I am a religionist (i discriminate based on faith).

There is no god. There absolutely is no allah.

D
Sierra [Email], 09.07.2005, 12:12am link
Gilgamesh (Jeff),
the cottage is in northern BC, you can get there using highway 37 (it's on a beautiful lake). Do you want to come up for a visit? We can have a chat about science, religion, etc. UK girl can come anytime, I like her. I know she's good looking.

Xainy, ISLAM is a disease and nuclear weapons are the cure.

ISLAM is an evil religion who's sole intention is to dominate the world. I would rather than die than live under their bullshit rules.

Sierra, run for congressman, we need people like you in govt.

I know we don't agree on the christian faith, but we agree on homeland security and defending our country.

Long live the US,and UK, role models for civilized societies.
eternal_damantion , 09.07.2005, 12:28am link
Dodge, your the one who is f****** moron. If you want to befriend and support islamic nuts that will kill you at a drop of a hat if one of their clerics tells them to, then that's your problem.
The UK shouldn't allow them in the country. ISLAM is a clear and present danger to the civilized world. Europe, Russia,US should pool their militaries together, invade and take over these countries. Our way of life, should be imposed on them, it would be for their own good.
Glad you live in Manchester. I won't spend one cent of my tourism dollars there. They will all be spent in London. Can't wait to get there in October.

I got friends in NY who are worried about riding trains and buses. I hope someone is carrying a gun and kills a suicide bomber before that nut boards a bus.
eternal_damantion , 09.07.2005, 12:37am link
The thing that always amazes me is the way people will look for ANY reason NOT to kill those that deserve it in the name of being civilized.

Why is it so UNCIVILIZED to kill, especially when you are defending your civilization?

We need to wipe ISLAM (certainly fundameltalist islam and probably all of it or it will re-infect) and take a strong stance toward a lot of other "faiths".

You have to give the fundamentalist christians credit. They buy 100,000 watt radio stations and try to change their world at the ballot box.

Your rank and file islamers buy 100,000 rounds for their AK-47 and try to blow up the ballot box.

If we could wipe out and a hunk of islam and turn the middle east from east palestine to the west side of China, southern Turkey to Madagascar into a sparky sheet of nuclear glass we could get oil down to 50 cents per gallon and rid the world of a lot of the social backwater we now have to deal with.

In truth the koran is nothing more than toilet paper. Mohammed was a liar, child abuser and thief and allah is a lie.

There is no god.

I stand with Canada and the UK.

D
Sierra [Email], 09.07.2005, 1:32am link
"You aren't going to give me the "stoop to your intellectual level" bullshit are you?"

ahahahahaha, read his comments then read yours, its obvious to everyone reading that you have the intelligence of a 4yr old downer. Wake up out of your fantasy, you cannot kill everyone that disagrees with you, thats supressing fundemental freedoms EVERYONE is entitled to regardless of race, nationality or religion.

"ISLAM is a disease and nuclear weapons are the cure"

i am not religious, i do believe all religions are a desease, even ures e_d, but nuclear weapons are not a cure for anything. Nothing good will come from using nuclear weapons except more death and destruction. What would using these achieve accept turning the whole world against you and america? I would rather stick by Islam than your pathetic macho bullshit.

"If you want to befriend and support islamic nuts that will kill you at a drop of a hat if one of their clerics tells them to, then that's your problem"

i would gladly befriend muslims anyday over people like you. There is no difference between muslims and me except for religion, there is no hatred of the west, wanton murder or rage in them, they are people just like you and me and if you cant see that then you need serious help. I have muslim friends and let me tell you none of them have been taught or want to kill or westeners or threaten our society in any way.
You speak as if every muslim cleric incited hatred, this is not true, its just that when there is one it makes the news. This is like saying every priest is either a paedophile or gay because some priests are.


"1. You NEVER see a muslim nation arresting ANYONE."

when was the last time you went to a muslim nation? crimes are rare because of their strict penalties, and to be honest why would american/canadian/UK tv report a murder/robbery on the oposite side of the planet??

"2. Al Jazerra is a NICE mouthpiece for terrorists (talk about one-sided journalism)"

Al Jazerra is a TV station, they show the videos on TV, nothing more, they do not promote terrorism in any way. This is the most popular arabic TV show so where better to send the videos? and their message gets accross. Terrorists also get their messages onto their websites. I think you'll find your american news stations are biased aswell, im pretty sure there wont be a completely unbiased news company. I stick with BBC news cos they kick ass, but i know for a fact that american channels are bullshit, for example the bombings and the G8 summit.

"3. Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, etc all sponsor terrorists of one sort or another."

evidence????

"4. There are no big pro-freedom anti-terrorism rallys"

errr yes there are, do you not keep up to date with the news. What about the riots etc in egypt by the banned pro democracy party demanding fairer elections?? Does the US have anti-terrorism rallys as ive never heard of one?

"5. The only people muslims kill at a faster rate that foreigners is other muslims."

what the hell is this supposed to mean? there must be hundreds of murders in the US everyday, this doenst prove anything.the only thing america kills faster than australians is other americans - this is probably a true fact but it doesnt mean anything.


Im sorry but if you cant see my point by now then you never will. Sierra and e_d both of you need some serious help. You need to wake up and see that the world we live in is full of differnt cultures and belief systems and individuals. It makes me feel sick inside knowing that there are people with minds as twisted as yours. Its ignorant people like you with your narrow minded attitudes to life that are a threat to the world, not islam. Your words only serve to justify the terrorists plight by showing them that the west is a threat to islam.

I want you to realise that the rest of the world DOES NOT share your attitide towards islam as most of us are intelligent to realise that what you suggest is imorral and evil.


neither of you are worth my time and effort, please if you want to post here gain some intelligence, im glad there are people here who are worthy of intelligent conversation such as Xainy who dont threaten death and destruction because of oposition to their beliefs.

"Glad you live in Manchester. I won't spend one cent of my tourism dollars there"

i dont want your money, you stay the hell away from me and my friends - this is a local shop for local people, we'll have no trouble here AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Dodge , 09.07.2005, 2:26am link
Sierra - killing hundreds of millions of innocent people is not defending your civilisation, its a massacre. Killing is uncivilized and is completely unnessesary, but people like you who are too weak to live without it cause it.
Islam does not need to be wiped out anymore than christianity, hinduism or any other religion on this planet.
Islamers resort to terrorism because they cant get their views across. Americans dont care about the outside world, most of you have the geography skills of a dead goldfish. Its the only way for them to get you to stand up and listen. You and other americans have stated many things that show me that you dont keep up to date with international affairs.

I do not condone terrorism but your views are disgraceful, maybe we should kill people like you instead.

ok im going to bed, im going to try and listen to some relaxing music to keep the rage youve caused inside of me down.
Dodge , 09.07.2005, 2:33am link
hey, i may not know much about islam or anything, but is there a difference between muslims and islam? i beleive one of the five (or something) pillars of islam is charity. could they be hypocrites too?

we have same thing with chrisitans over here (why the hell am i bringing this up?) some preach love, others preach hate. i figure its the same thing over there too. you have fanatics over there too, but i don't think that means that you should blast the crap out of every single one. they already tried that with witch craft, didn't work. besides, we have ourselves a rather nice town on the east side of the US thats loaded with islamic people. raise your hand if you wish to replace part of america with a crater (looks around) besides, i nkow several islamic people, and not one of them owns an instrument of war (unless you ocunt the kitchen knives) very nice people, and they amde rather nice tater' salad for the fourth of july.

somehow i feel that if we try to blow the crap out of all the people in the middle east for the actions of a few, we may be no better off then the nazis. (i just KNOW i'm gonna get spammed for this) i can't wait till the 08 elections :|

would you condemn the people of today for the actions of the past? would you kill every single child because their dad goes nutso and charges with an AK-47 while waving holy scriptures? easy fix.

SHOOT THE FANATIC HELL BENT ON KILLING FOR SOMETHING CUZ HIS LEADER IS A POWER HUNGRY MEAT-HEAD!!! it's like Wack-a-mole, but shoot-a-nut.

and actually i beleive the islamic, jewish, and christian god is the same, just VERY different ways of worship, probably caused by culture and region. slight vary in beleifs, but eesentially the same.

done ranting for now i guess :|
CJ , 09.07.2005, 2:44am link
It is time for a lot of muslims to die. You do not see as many suicide bombers as you do because it is an unpopular thing to do. They do not put their pictures up and praise them at their silly temple because they disagree with what they do.

There is no god. Kill muslims.

D
Sierra [Email], 09.07.2005, 5:33am link
Wow Xainy, nice personal attacks. And you say we have hate?

Xainy- "U have no right whatsoever to judge the religion of Islam. Have any of you even bothered to take time out from your endless ranting and actually done something productive, for example, read translations of the Quraan instead of making up your own bullsh*t about it. I’d like to see a VALID translation of the Quraan stating that Muslims should kill all non-believers."

AA- How dare you say I have no right to judge ANY religious belief. BULLSHIT! The LAW rightly says otherwise. I will judge any belief system that worships an imaginary god. I love the way many muslims often use a similar excuse of VALID translation. It's like christians apolegetics, they always say you're taking the bible out of context. Of course we take your fairy-tale book out of context, it's make-believe to me. B#//sh*t! All deity worshipping religions are about control - and nothing else. Your stupid holy book DOES say kill the infidel, if you want to translate it some other way, so be it. Islam is a danger, as are all diety worshipping religions, especially ones where the founders had a direct line to god and seem to think exactly the way their god's do (today it's called mental disease). PERIOD. You sound the same as many religious fundamentalists.


Xainy- "because they all respect my religion and my way of life and they treat me exactly how they would like to be treated."

AA- Good for them. I am not disrespecting you, only your religion. There are no laws against disrespecting religions, only laws against discriminating or harming of believers of religions. You can disrespect my non-existant religion all you fucking want. I support free speech. You or I start jumping for joy in the streets when innocents are killed though and all bets are off concerning respect.


Xainy- "You cowards have no right to judge our Holy Book, since none of you have bothered to even research into it..."

AA- Again, I do have the right. I WILL QUESTION ANY BELIEF SYSTEM. How dare you threaten my rights. How do you know some of us haven't looked into a lot of silly belief books? Why are we cowards? What a peaceful upbringing.I'm not particularly scared of your stupid holy book.Legally you're on shakey ground. There are laws against defaming somebody's character. Like I'm trying to say, attack the message, not the messenger. The message of islam is hate.You, as a person may not be that message.

Xainy- "None of you have probably ever bothered to befriend a Muslim"

AA- B#//sh*t, I do have a few.

Xainy- "what its like to be brought up having everyone hate you."

AA- Everyone. Talk about generalizations. Suddenly you're a victim, unlike those killed and injured in the blasts yesterday. Pathetic. It's okay though, your imaginary god loves you.You really must of had such a hard life. BOO-HOO-fucking-HOO. I've seen my own share of hard luck cases, so what. You're not special to me. Nor am I to you. Neither are most. Ask any jews in Iran, though about fair treatment.

Xainy- "Just imagine what its like being one of us... Not being able to voice our opinions"

AA- I think you're doing that here. So I imagine it's about the same me as an atheist at a southern baptist convention. Walk a mile in my shoes. You know nothing of others either.

Xainy- "You all talk as if you know everything about the religion of Islam and all of its teachings..."

AA- Whatever, if your holey book even says ONE thing about a hell, then it sounds like a control scheme to me. Ripe for misuse by those who stir shit up. And therefore a danger. As an atheist, I don't have a silly book. Shit seems to be stirred up plenty by others though.

Xainy- "You’re all uneducated individuals who hear the word ‘terrorist’ and automatically associate that word with Islam...its sad...very sad. I’m just so thankful to God that me nor my family has ever had a religious attack against us, however I do fear for the future and I wish I didn’t have to."

AA- Uneducated, close-minded, media-brainwashed. Call us whatever. How nice. And remember to thank god too. Of course no mention of the anti-hate laws put in place by all those who as you said 'hate' you, providing safety for you and your family.

Xainy- Also I’d just like to say thanks to DODGE for sticking up for Islam...it’s really nice to know that broad-minded people like yourself still exist in this world. I’m truly grateful for all your comments."

AA- Doesn't change a thing about islam's message of hate for any that disagree with it. Dodge is exercising that thing called free speech, you know that thing that allows an individual say things against something, how'd you put it, oh yeah "U have no right whatsoever to judge the religion of Islam." unless, of course, it agrees with your view.

Religion is still b#//sh*t. Next time Xainy, maybe you'll show of that love your religion teaches you.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 09.07.2005, 5:54am link
And with that, the attempt at the defense of the whoring religion of islam fail miserably.

There is no god. Allah is a farciful whore.

D
Sierra [Email], 09.07.2005, 6:12am link
And with that, the attempt at the defense of the whoring religion of islam fail miserably.

There is no god. Allah is a farciful whore.

D
Sierra [Email], 09.07.2005, 6:13am link
Remember Xainy you ignorant towel-headed, fuzz faced, camel smelling, murderous nutjob, your are supposed to forgive us and set a good example.

Why don't you become a suicide bomber. Just set the dammed thing off in a field somewhere by yourself.

There is no god. I urinate on allah.

D
Sierra [Email], 09.07.2005, 6:15am link
AA

Xainy- "To be honest, I don’t really give a flying sh*t about any of your views... because I’ve been reading all your comments and it seems that your targeting hatred towards ALL religions, which as I’ve said before NOONE and I mean NOONE has the right to do soYou slander religions left, right and centre like as though you have all the knowledge in the world about each and every religion?


AA- You can say it all you want Xainy, doesn't make it so. Religions can't be slandered. Only living people can be slandered. And YOU DID that earlier and that CAN BE ILLEGAL. I, along with Sierra can piss in the face of any deity-worshipping religion any time we choose, no matter how much it upsets you. And if we can't question or disagree with religion, what's next? The media, politicians, authority, whatever, they all should be open to scrutiny. Who says we have to know anything about them to do so? Fascist-type comments like yours about 'NOONE has the right to do so' are frightening,as well as being a lie, would very much fit the lines of the social conservative movement in the USA.



Xainy- "Anyway Sierra sounds like you’re just a racist who can’t see beyond colour or belief."



AA- You should take that remark back Xainy. I'm going to defend Sierra's right to his views here, even though I may not agree with some of his views. I've not seen evidence of Sierra, ever being RACIST. He has never written anything against anyone on here according to their genetic makeup over which NOBODY has control over. Since when is muslim a race? If it is, does that make you superior to me, as I now belong to vastly outnumbered Atheist race. WTF? Silly religious beliefs though ARE fair game, and DAMNED well should be.


Religion is B#//sh*t!

AA
AccursedAtheist , 09.07.2005, 6:32am link
whoa. i love how everyone relies off of typical media steroetypes. one nation controlled by the media indeed. not all muslims are bad, not all islamic people (am i just confused, or are muslims and islamics the same thing? please correct me)not all christians are bad (i have one christian friend who says that if god hated gays, blacks, etc, he wouldn't have made humans in the first place. cool guy really.) and not all atheists considder themselves better then others for beleiving in evolution.

respect my beleifs, i'll respect yours. attack me for my beleifs, i'll grind your ass-ugly religion so far into the ground it could describe their hells cafeteria to me.

i've just seen more of my friends attacked for being different, and my can of whoop-ass is shaken.

you can't justify genocide of an entire religion or culture because some people off their rocker decide to get themselves shot/ exploded/ poisoned/ (add favorite death here)

would you say "kill all the whites because they kill people" based on the actions of the KKK? kinda curious here.
CJ , 09.07.2005, 7:09am link
Ok...let me ask you this. Show me any large, vocal, influential group of muslims who are consistently speaking out AGAINST islamic fundamentalist violence.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 09.07.2005, 7:18am link
Xainy said"I’d like to see a VALID translation of the Quraan stating that Muslims should kill all non-believers."


How about Quran 4:89 'They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and KILL them wherever ye find them, and CHOOSE NO friend nor helper from among them,'

Or quran 4:91:" Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and KILL them WHEREVER ye find them. Against such We have given you CLEAR warrant. "

Or quran 4:101:"And when ye go forth in the land, it is no sin for you to curtail (your) worship if ye fear that those who disbelieve may attack you. In truth the DISBELIEVERS are an open ENEMY to you."



So...basically islam contains commands that say KILL people like me, as I am seen as an enemy. Even though I've not incited violence towards you? But you say I can't speak out against this, like f#ck, I will speak out against B#//sh*t like this whenever I can.

Of course Xainy you can make the excuses that I've not quoted correctly, or it's out of context, I know, I have to read it in Arabic for it to make sense. B#//sh*t, if allah is so great, why didn't he publish it in english, or french, or dutch, so maybe I could read it. KILL, WAR, etc., your holey book's full of it, just like any other. But of course you can pick and choose, and forget all the evil stuff right? Why the f#ck believe any of it then? It's not like it comes with a disclaimer in the front of it that says"Warning, this book contains graphic commands that you all should follow, unless you choose not to. Some of it is good, some of it is bad, all is true, and all is lies. Interpret as you wish." Leave the silly belief behind Xainy, you'll feel better in the long run.

Piss on islam.
I'm off to eat a ham sandwich now. I guess I'll go to hell for that too.



AA
AccursedAtheist , 09.07.2005, 7:57am link
Excellent Points AA.

15 years ago I read the Bible cover-to-cover and that cemented my atheism. But I haven't bothered with the Quran. I've just lumped it in with "books idiots believe in absence of facts." Anyway, great points AA.
anywherebutneverland [Email], 09.07.2005, 8:47am link
Sierra im not defending the religion of islam, i believe it to be bullshit just as much as the next person, what i am doing is defending the rights of the hundreds of millions of innocent people you want to brutally masacre.

You cannot judge the majority on the actions of a minority.

All i can do at this point is to apologise to Xainy and other islamers and to reassure them that the public is on thier side.
Dodge , 09.07.2005, 11:13am link
"The problem with the more conservative / right-wing people is that they think in black and white and argue from the floodgates "

Exactly. All Fundamentalists and Zealots are dangerous. I hate to say this, Sierra, but you are acting just like them. Just calm down and take a deep breath. You are sounding exactly like E_D...do you really want a troll on your side?

"Ok...let me ask you this. Show me any large, vocal, influential group of muslims who are consistently speaking out AGAINST islamic fundamentalist violence."

Of the so-far 50 dead, and even more missing, there was a young Muslim woman amongst them. British, and even American, papers are beginning to flash her picture. Her family is spitting mad. They don't know if she's dead or even lying in a hospital. Her uncle has been EXTREMELY vocal. The more innocent Muslim victims of this insanity that there is, the more that they will stand out and speak out against it. There is an opposing voice out there...but most have, until recently, been too afraid to speak up.

Yes, the fundamentalist ideology is to convert or kill everyone not like themselves. That is true of fundamentalist Islam, fundamentalist Christianity, fundamentalist Buddhism (yep, its happening there too), and, sadly to say, even fundamentalist Atheism. I've seen Turkey...I've seen how they oppress all religious expression outside of the home. I wouldn't want to live there any more than I would want to live in a theocracy.

Your feelings are valid, Sierra, but you are hurting your own ideology as much as the terrorists are hurting their own. All good warriors learn to use their head first before they learn to pick up the sword. To kill them all sounds Romantic, I know. To actually kill another human being? Only a psychotic could do that with no remourse.
Dropinin , 09.07.2005, 2:07pm link
To reiterate quite simply....

We need to be better than them.
Dropinin , 09.07.2005, 2:16pm link
WOAH!…. So many haters up in here… I hope I never come across any of you guys…You’d probably shoot me given half the chance!

E_d: “ISLAM is an evil religion who's sole intention is to dominate the world. I would rather than die than live under their bullshit rules.”

E_d, Noone is asking you to live under the apparent “bullshit” rules of Islam… We don’t go out randomly converting people you know… all we ask is for a little bit of respect for our beliefs and acceptance.. Is that so wrong for us to do? I don’t go out preaching Islam everywhere I go and never have I tried to convert my Christian friends… because unlike you people I actually respect their religion.

E_d: “Dodge, your the one who is f****** moron. If you want to befriend and support islamic nuts that will kill you at a drop of a hat if one of their clerics tells them to, then that's your problem.”

Dude what the f*ck are you talking about? “Kill you at a drop of a hat if one of their clerics tells them to.”… Seriously are you guys mad? Are you calling me a killer just because I am Muslim? You guys have such backward thinking… and you call us nuts!

Sierra… You have some real issues that you need to deal with in your head…

Sierra: “Why is it so UNCIVILIZED to kill, especially when you are defending your civilization?”
What’s that all about? I thought us Muslims were the killers. Okay so now you’re saying its all good to kill for civilization, however its totally wrong to kill for your religion or your belief…What kind of nutcase are you? Is that what you’re going to teach your kids? Wow you’re a real good role model for them.

“In truth the koran is nothing more than toilet paper. Mohammed was a liar, child abuser and thief and allah is a lie.”

Okay you talk about Mohammad (PBUH) like as though you know him… Have you ever bothered to read his life history? Probably not!.. You were probably too busy planning an attack on your local mosque. Well if you’d bothered to read about his history, you’d realise he’s not at all how you describe him.

"1. You NEVER see a muslim nation arresting ANYONE."

Well if you watched the news you’d see that in places like Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. etc.. people are being arrested all the time. 600 fundamentalists were arrested in Pakistan. It seems like you only believe want you want to believe and the rest of the time you make up your own sh*t.

Religion is a belief and a way of life. When something good happens in life people can turn to God and thank God and when something bad happens in life people turn to God for guidance…Isn’t that better then turning to pills, drugs or alcohol?
Its so easy for you lot to sit behind a computer in your cushy little homes and not worry about where your foods going to come from or is your brother/sister/mother/father going to walk through the door safe and sound?

AA: “Suddenly you're a victim, unlike those killed and injured in the blasts yesterday.”
I never said I was the victim…I don’t want any of guys to feel sorry for me… I don’t need your pity thank you very much. And yes I was shocked at what happened in London and truly sorry about all the victims…I can’t imagine what their families must be going through…But I am also extremely sorry for all the innocent victims that are dying everyday in Iraq and Afghanistan. You never refer to them…Have you bothered to think about what their families are going through? Everyday is a struggle for them. What about all the British and US troops who are being killed everyday? They’re just doing their job and at the same time giving up their life for their country.

AA, you talk about generalizations, well aren’t people like you generalizing everyday??? You hear something biased and ridiculous in the news about Muslims and all of a sudden we’re all terrorists! Answer me this… Do you think I’m a terrorist? Or a killer? Or an Islamic fundamentalist? I’d love to see what people’s responses are to that.

AA, Because you don’t believe in anything (even in your own creation) there’s no point wasting time on you. However, since you are judging, you must read the history and see that in those days what sort of atrocities were being committed against Muslims, and their belief. That is why they were being told they should defend themselves. In that context it was a defensive NOT an offensive move. Everybody has a right to defend themselves against people who are committing such grave attacks. The enemies were killing woman, children, old people, sick people and it was in that context that they were defending themselves.

Xainy- "None of you have probably ever bothered to befriend a Muslim"

“AA- B#//sh*t, I do have a few.”
Seriously dude…You have Muslim friends? Well I sure feel sorry for them! Maybe you should print off everything you have written about Muslims and show it to them. Do they know how you feel about their religion? Or are you too afraid to speak the truth and your only release is this message board?

AA, you say that you have the right to judge any belief, but what about the belief that you have? You believe that there is no God…I respect your belief...Is it so hard for you to respect mine? We all belong to different groups…Even you do…Your classed as an Atheist and I’m classed as a Muslim… Can’t we all just get on?

I am proud to be British and I am proud to be Muslim and no-one can change the way I feel.
I respect all your comments, as you’re all entitled to them and I can’t stop you, but I just wish you didn’t feel such strong hate for Muslims and I wish just for once you could put yourselves in the position of a Muslim and see what its like, but I don’t think society will ever change and this hate is going to develop further…All I can is…That’s life!
Xainy , 09.07.2005, 2:48pm link
im just wonderering Xainy do you live in Bradford or leicester? i cant stand rag heads, some are ok, but its the ones who don't speak english, claim benefits, enjoy the UKs free housing and healthcare then bomb us for no apparant reason. how would you feel if a white christian was to blow himself up in a mosque? we can all get along when islamic wankers stop terrorising the world and trying to turn it into an islamic state!
uk girl , 09.07.2005, 3:58pm link
Nah UK girl I'm not from Bradford or Leicester…I’m from Leeds. I know who you’re referring to when you say rag heads lol… I’ve met plenty of them and I’m nothing like them. Me and my family have worked very hard to get where we are…We don’t claim benefits or live in free housing. We are law abiding citizens who live an honest life and are earning a living like any other person. My Dads an Accountant, my brothers an Economist, one of my sisters is a Doctor, my other sister is a Lawyer training to be a Barrister and I‘m at uni doing a degree in Computing…You tell me…Are we rag heads as well? And I’m not just talking about my family, there’s plenty of other Muslim families out there who are working hard in this country and yet we’re still referred to as freaking “terrorists.” What is it going to take to revert this backward thinking?
Also one thing you need to realise UK Girl, is that there is plenty of British people taking advantage as well…What about all the scally’s living in council estates? They don’t pay tax and they don’t work hard and all they do is claim benefits. You seem to have dismissed them and focused your attention solely on “Islamic Wankers.” You need to realise that there’s “Wanker’s” of all types in this world and they all take advantage not just Islamic people. I’m sorry you feel this way about us.
I just want to know have you guys had actual bad experiences with Muslims yourselves? Is that why you are all so hostile towards us? Because if that is the case I think that’s pretty pathetic, as you can’t generalise one experience with a Muslim and think that we are all like that. I mean I’ve had bad experience with all types of people…Should I hate all those groups of people then?
Xainy , 09.07.2005, 4:25pm link
no i wouldn't class you as a one of those people and there are plenty of white christian scroungers as well in the uk, but the reason i hate the islamic scroungers is because they say they hate the UK (that cleric guy and the hook guy) but yet they still stay here! not all muslims are like that i know, but you cant help being stereotypical when all you see is these people killing their fellow citezans, they should be deported and bombed(the terrorists).
uk girl , 09.07.2005, 5:31pm link
"I just want to know have you guys had actual bad experiences with Muslims yourselves? "

Yes, I do. E_D (the troll) and I have only touched on that subject. A good friend of mine's wife is a Muslim born in India. My son was the ring-bearer in their wedding many years ago (since he isn't Muslim or Indian, they had a Unitarian wedding). Since then, we've gotten to know her family fairly well (I'm talking brothers, cousins...the whole lot). Kind, sweet people...her parents and grandparents still hold to some of their local supersitions, but they are really quite sweet. Her mom's an awesome cook...best curry I've ever had.

Thankfully they ARE from India...the older women dress in Sari's, and everyone else dresses like a typical American. Like your family, they have refused to take welfare as well. Real liberal Muslims...the younger ones even drink alcahol (I know there is a Koranic ban against it as being bad for the body).

So, like you say...when you actually know someone and have studied them (their religion, etc), you have a different attitude. Do I believe in it? Nope. No more than I believe the Christian God exists.

The hatred spewed by some persons on this board is just evidence of the dangers that religion, most especially the fundamentalist kind, can create. It would be nice if we could get back to a live and live kind of situation, but the fundies (whether Christian, Muslim, or Atheist) won't allow it.
Dropinin , 09.07.2005, 5:32pm link
Sorry, I made it sound as if I'd had bad experience with Muslims...the answer to THAT would be yes and no. But a few rude and dirty-minded young men don't quite skew my views of my Muslim friends.
Dropinin , 09.07.2005, 5:36pm link
Dropinin,
Sierra and UK girl makes the most sense on this web-board.
Sierra and I are Americans, and we may disagree on religion, but I'm with my American brother all the way. Homeland security and protection of our way of life is first priority (even higher than my faith).
Islam is not for me, no way, wouldn't go anywhere near a mosque, especially being an infidel.
The only use I have for Allah and Mohammed is to strap them on a 50000lb daisy cutter and drop it on Osama's head.
eternal_damantion , 09.07.2005, 5:45pm link
Its nice to be civilized. Its always comforting to be "better than them". Its good to take the high road. I believe prior to WWII someone was looking for "peace in our time".

All that really gets you is dead.

The more we treat the muslim murderers fairly the more we enable the death they seek to cause. In the US some people are outraged that we search islamic men at the airport at a higher rate than we search little children and elderly women.

The reality is that sometimes you just have to get down and dirty to get rid of a threat. I generally would not want to kill millions of people. I am very much a live and let live kind of person. As long as you leave me alone we can get along fine.

The problem is that these towel heads are not going to stop. There are no conversations with them that will bear fruit. They are commanded by their god to kill and that is what they are going to do.

There has only ever been one way to deal with these people.

Now if I could pick and choose I would, but the reality it that for each particular one you kill, another is ready to step up. The only way to be sure is to kill them on a vast scale.

I'm sorry, but that is the way it is. Basicly we are holding them to the same rules they ally to us. They do not believe in our society so they must be killed.

To suggest anything else is to abet the next attack. These people have squandered the credibility of their silly faith and their right to freedom.

Its time for another approach.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 09.07.2005, 5:52pm link
"Its nice to be civilised"

im sorry but your attitude is anthing but civilized, you want to wage war on an entire religion because of a few people acting out of their own free will. So far yours and e_ds comments have been nothing short of barbaric.

Sierra there is never going to be peace in our time whilst there are people like you and e_d here to fuck the world up.

You generally would not want to kill millions of people, but your saying with islam its different? because of the actions of a few hundred people you want to condemn millions of innocents.
Your damn right for each one you kill another would take their place, if i was in their situation id do the same. Your fighting for america, not peace or freedom, but for capitalism and profit. This is why they rise up. thousands of innocent people have been slaughtered by american (and unfortunately) UK troops in Iraq, have you ever thought about them an how they feel? do you not think from their point of view that these terrorist attacks are justice. the people in iraq do not deserve war and death, and neither do we, but we have to face the consequences for your actions (not ours, the british public was against the war, its just that dumbass tony blair supporting you).

"They do not believe in our society so they must be killed."

jesus tapdancing christ, look around you sierra, go outside, venture around your country instead of sitting on ure ass watching tv all day, there are millions of muslims integrated into our society, there here and they believe in it. You cannot judge the majority on the actions of the minority.

"To suggest anything else is to abet the next attack. These people have squandered the credibility of their silly faith and their right to freedom."

so what your basically saying is that islamers are sub human because they believe differently to you, we should kill them all even though they have done nothing towards you, but wiping out hundreds of millions of innocent people may prevent a few more deaths from terrorist attacks. I dont know about you, but id rather take the terrorist attacks that commit genocide.



ok heres an analogy for you: -

there are many racial hatred crimes committed in america, does this mean we should exterminate all the white people in america to stop this from happening??
according to your logic we should, but anyone with a brain could tell you its utter bollocks.

do your comments not sound hipocritical coming from a man (or woman) whos country proclaims freedom for all. You apparently want freedom for all except the islamers.
Dodge , 09.07.2005, 7:08pm link
When these islamic nuts attack us, and we respond with weakeness, it only encourages more attacks. The spiritual leaders in the mosques brag about these great successes to their followers and then it's easier to brainwash more "jihad" warriors.
Now , if these young potential "jihad" warriors saw their cities nuked each time they did this, then they would see failure than success.
We must teach Allah and Mohammed that their barbaric philosophy will not be imposed on us. The only way to do it, is to talk to them in the language they understand, ie. "violence".
Islamic socities in general are economic, and political failures. The only thing they export is terrorism. They are backward, barbaric, have no sense of social and do not fit in to the new world order.
Xainy, when push comes to shove, you will make your move on us. DOn't try to fool me.
eternal_damnation , 09.07.2005, 7:14pm link
approximate ratio of jihad warriors to innocent people 1:1,000,000. yeah i see where your coming from, kill even more of their innocent people than we have done already to anger even more people so they themselves become terrorists.

islamers are not backwards or barbaric, they have a different culture to us. If you cant comprehend their way of life then it isnt mine or their fault, its yours.

Do not fit into the new world order?? what new world order is this, is this your american dream bullshit because i along with the rest of the world dont want to be worshipping your lazy fat asses.

your one to speak, what about all the rape,murder,slavery, and human sacrifice that god tells us to commit in the bible, surely thats just as bad. Maybe we should kill you aswell so you dont perform any of these atrocities.
Dodge , 09.07.2005, 7:29pm link
"When these islamic nuts attack us, and we respond with weakeness, it only encourages more attacks."

I know you're just a troll, but that's an issue I do have to address...

George Bush and Tony Blair understand this perfectly well. For that, they have my support. The failure with arm chair quarterbacks like yourself is the failure to distinguish the enemy with the innocent.

Watch what our soldiers are doing over in Iraq. They are saving the lives of children. They are giving presents away. Give an innocent child a teddy bear, and he'll remember there was an American (or a Brit) who was once his friend, and he'll be far less likely to believe the Al Jazira idiocy. Give that same innocent child a bullet in the brain, and you'll just create thousands of enemies.

Its like G.W. and T.B. said on the news the other day...these jerks attack while the world's leaders are standing together, discussing how we can help another continent overcome poverty, hunger, and disease. Because of that, we probably have every African on our side now. A culture of life does not begin with "Kill them all, and let the gods sort them out." A culture of life begins with life, and standing together AGAINST a culture of death.

Oy. I feel like Odysseus talking to Patroclus and Ajax the lesser. But you know what? Odysseus won the battle. His simple idea of a Trojan horse succeeded. He became a hero, with another legend to his name, and went home to wife and son, while Patroclus and Ajax the lesser are mere grease spots on the pages they were written on, their blood spilt upon Trojan soil.
Dropinin , 09.07.2005, 7:48pm link
Wow the irony is thick in this thread.


Xainy,

The problem with the Quran, the Bible and any other holy book is that we humans can cherry pick any phrase out of it and take it to mean whatever we want.

Thats what the fundamentalists on both sides are doing. There is no such thing as a peaceful religion. Every religion has its dark past. Islam started out being spread by the sword. Thats simple recorded historical fact. In many cases so was Christianity and many other religions.

There are Imams and islamic teachers in the world, even in Britain adn North Americas that are preaching hate and violence. No, retaliation is not the answer, despite what the trolls in this thread say. But what is? It's time to recognise and deal with the cancer spreading throughout Islam. This cancer is a danger to the world.

It's time that good muslims such as yourself lead the charge. Root out the cancer in your religion.

Did you know that in Ottawa, a child in a muslim school wrote a story about becoming a martyr and killing Jews? What do you think happened? The teacher PRAISED him!

Any child that did that in a regular Canadian school system would have been suspended and sent for psyciatric councelling. In this school? no, praise. It was discovered becasue this story was POSTED in the main hall and someone else saw it and reported it.

Come on. Yes, the vast majority of muslims are peace loving people who just want to live their own lives and not bother anyone else, jsut like any identifiable group. But i that case, how can these things happen?

After 9-11 a teenage muslim boy on a bus was heard bragging that islam would take over the world. If this boy is being taught live and let live phlosophies by his parents and religious leaders, where did this come from?

Moderate Islam needs to take a long hard look at itself and what it's becoming before its too late, and before the fundamentalist crazies highjack the religion completely.

As for suffering in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yeah the americans caused no end of trouobles there. But X, 9-11 took place BEFORE these invasions. You can claim that the US was causing trouble in the region for decades before this, and you'd have a point.

However consider this. The region has many desparately poor people in it, ripe for terrorist recruiting. It also has corrupt RICH governments who are keeping their people poor, and ripe targets for terrorism recruiting. You don't seriously think that the west is taking all that oil for free do you? Of course not. Those countries have enough money for every single citizen to be millionaires. The problems in the middle east are caused by their corrupt governments. To argue differently is to believe all the media nonsense coming from their governments. It is just as biased as the west's is on their side.

Palistinian children are being taught that Jews are evil animals who should be killed.


And for what it's worth, I know many muslim people. They all, without exception, dislike violence and think all the violence in the middle east is wrong. Some of them, however, think Israel and the west deserve it.
Gilgamesh [Email], 09.07.2005, 8:24pm link
E_d: “The spiritual leaders in the mosques brag about these great successes to their followers”

Well e_d, judging from what you’ve said, sounds like you’ve made a recent visit to the mosque. To have made such a claim, you must have gone inside and heard that from your own ears…Oh wait…was that another piece of bullsh*t information that you just made up? I’ve been to plenty of mosques and never have the Holy men in there preached such things. I’ll tell you what happens in a mosque… We read the Quraan, pray and worship God…Is that so wrong of us to do? We’re not forcing people like you to come, so it doesn’t affect your life in anyway.

E_d: “Xainy, when push comes to shove, you will make your move on us. DOn't try to fool me.”

I’m shocked that you are implying that I’m a murderer, especially since you’ve never met me, spoken to me or had any face-to-face contact with me. Who do you think you are?…Imposing such dire allegations on me like that.
I’m not trying to fool anyone…Plus I don’t need to prove myself to anyone either…The way I see it now is that I can say what the hell I like on this message board…I could rant on for days, but you guys are not willing to even believe anything I say or merely change a little bit of your attitude towards my faith. Well I guess it was worth a try.

All the posts that you guys seem to have sent have been blabbing on about fighting for America. Frankly I couldn’t give a sh*t about America. They’re the root cause of this problem. I think the real issue for you lot is that you can’t learn to accept people who are different to yourselves. You all need to grow up and realise that this world was not just made for you and your bullsh*t country…You don’t own us and you certainly don’t have control over us. So the sooner people like you change your attitudes, the sooner this world will become a much more peaceful place to live in… From the way you guys are talking it sounds like you’re the terrorists/fundamentalists!
Xainy , 09.07.2005, 8:39pm link
I think Eternal Damnation is just showing how much of assholes fundies can truly be. He may be a troll, but hes actually a good actor. I know hes been at it for some time. He truly grips the heart of fundy trash. Sorry to say that Dropinins right, Sierra. Youre acting just like him.
Xiomburg , 09.07.2005, 8:46pm link
“After 9-11 a teenage muslim boy on a bus was heard bragging that islam would take over the world. If this boy is being taught live and let live phlosophies by his parents and religious leaders, where did this come from?”


“Palistinian children are being taught that Jews are evil animals who should be killed.”

Gilgamesh, where did you hear about that? I can’t believe nowadays people still believe the crap that they hear in the news or read in the paper. Your saying that Palestinian children are being taught that Jews are evil animals…Do you personally know a Palestinian child who told you that? I’m guessing you don’t! Israeli’s are continually committing violent attacks on Palestinians, but you’d probably reject any of those claims. Nobody would ever turn around and say that a Jewish child is being taught that Palestinians are evil animals, but when you hear the opposite you blindly agree and believe everything you hear.

Oh and as for the teenage Muslim boy on the bus - Did you hear him yourself? Or did you meet him? Probably not!
Xainy , 09.07.2005, 8:52pm link
wow. more genocide. as dodge stated (and i stated this too) would we have to kill all the white people in america to prevent them from becoming KKK members? like, if three people were murdered in south carolina by the KKK, would we have to hunt down and exterminate each and everyone of them? and jsut to be safe, lets kill their wives, husbands, children, friends, al to hell with it, lets kill every single one!

though i will agree with UK girl, the train bombs were totally uncalled for, and all the ignorant terrorists are getting is more guns pointed at them. kill the ones who are hell bent on blowing up everything they can't comprehend as a bad idea.

when are we going to get a new thrad? our conversations never follow the thread anyways, so how about one on how screwed the terrorists are?

Terrorists t('-'t)
CJ , 09.07.2005, 8:54pm link
man i'm probably going to be gone for awhile. going to summer camp up at wente. at least we don't have to cook our own food there, but we always have really interesting political conversations.

Terrorists t('-'t)
CJ , 09.07.2005, 8:57pm link
I see Xainy, that America is the problem. I knew you couldn't help revealing your true self. I'll take NFL football, baseball, hockey, car racing and our way of life, over praising Allah and Mohammed.
I'm getting fed up with religion and am starting to wonder why the heck I still believe or want to believe.
I'm starting to have doubts. Dammit, Gilgamesh (Jeff), you may be right, this world would probably be better if all religion would disappear. It just causes problems. When events like in London happen, I can't honestly justify why God would let it happen. What am I going to tell people? That's it's a fallen world? (that old story)
Look, I'm not a smart as you atheists on this web-board.
I have been reading over a lot of what Sierra says and it just makes sense. Sierra is brilliant and knows what he's talking about.
eternal_damnation , 09.07.2005, 10:22pm link
I don't know if I am brilliant, but I'm going to hold these bastards to the same standards they hold us.

Death to islam.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 09.07.2005, 10:31pm link
Well e_d if Sierra is SO brilliant why don't you start worshipping Sierra then...That'll sure get you far in life!
You two don't know what you're talking about...I'm not trying to convert you (far from it)...I just ask for a bit of respect...but you wouldn't know about respect would you..You're the type of people who terrorise the local Muslim children, just because they don't have the same backward thinking as you retards.
Xainy , 09.07.2005, 10:41pm link
I don't need to worship anybody. I'm fed up with religion. It causes nothing but grief!
50 people in London are missing and won't go home because some muslim nutjobs think Allah approves of what they are doing.
Respect, when your holy book starts preaching respect then you just might get some.
All this violence, hatred because people think there GOd is better than others.

I have a lot of thinking to do.
eternal_damnation , 09.07.2005, 11:14pm link
"Gilgamesh, where did you hear about that? I can’t believe nowadays people still believe the crap that they hear in the news or read in the paper. Your saying that Palestinian children are being taught that Jews are evil animals…Do you personally know a Palestinian child who told you that? I’m guessing you don’t! Israeli’s are continually committing violent attacks on Palestinians, but you’d probably reject any of those claims. Nobody would ever turn around and say that a Jewish child is being taught that Palestinians are evil animals, but when you hear the opposite you blindly agree and believe everything you hear."

Oh come on X. Denial is gonna get you jack squat. Yes, dammit, I've talked to a palistinian guy at my work place. Get your head out of the sand!

As for what the Israelies are doing, I suspect they are reacting to what the Palistinians are doing. Both sides are wrong, yes. But come on, don't try to lay ALL the blame on one side, thats absurd. There is no reason for that conflict to have continued for as long as it has. Both sides are stubborn and try to one up the other. Sharon started the latest madnes by camping out on the temple mount. Then Palistinians threw rocks, Israelies responded with guns. Yeah they are all idiots. So damn what if a Israeli polititian camps out on a damn rock? There is no excuse for this nonsense to continue. Palistinians are in the plight they are in for many reasons, not all to do with Israel, and no small part to do with themselves and other arabs.


"
Oh and as for the teenage Muslim boy on the bus - Did you hear him yourself? Or did you meet him? Probably not!"


Again, this is just silly denial. No I didnt hear this personally. What basis do you have for accusing the media of making this all up? Why would they? I sense some paranoia here.
Gilgamesh [Email], 09.07.2005, 11:50pm link
"What basis do you have for accusing the media of making this all up? "

And no claiming that the 'Jews control the media'. I sense you are fair and even minded, X. Going down that road will brand you a racist. I'm sure you wont. You are better than that.
Gilgamesh [Email], 09.07.2005, 11:57pm link
"Respect, when your holy book starts preaching respect then you just might get some.
All this violence, hatred because people think there GOd is better than others.
"

First thing E_D has said that I agree with.
Gilgamesh [Email], 09.07.2005, 11:59pm link
"You're the type of people who terrorise the local Muslim children, just because they don't have the same backward thinking as you retards. "

Its exactly this kind of comment I'm having trouble with, Xiany.

You call E_D and Sierra retards but when I try to start a reasoned discussion with you on how to deal with the problems, you wave aside my comments with a 'brainwashed by the media' comment and claim there are absolutely no problems. Plainly there are.

Come on, who exactly DO you get along with?
Gilgamesh [Email], 10.07.2005, 12:04am link
Xainy you said"
AA, you talk about generalizations, well aren’t people like you generalizing everyday??? You hear something biased and ridiculous in the news about Muslims and all of a sudden we’re all terrorists! Answer me this… Do you think I’m a terrorist? Or a killer? Or an Islamic fundamentalist? I’d love to see what people’s responses are to that."


I say- Yeah generalizations. Again where have I ever said ALL muslims are terrorists. You're full of b#//shit. I think there are good people and bad people everywhere in the world. Some other people see it differently. Again I attack only the message, not the followers of islam, just as I do other deity-worshipping belief systems. Why would I think you're a terrorist? I know the religion you follow though has produced terrorists, as have other religions. I'm sure the highjackers who flew the planes into the WTC's towers believed they were doing it for allah. You may not like that fact, but it is the TRUTH.I don't see how anyone can deny that.


Then you say:
"But I am also extremely sorry for all the innocent victims that are dying everyday in Iraq and Afghanistan. You never refer to them…Have you bothered to think about what their families are going through? Everyday is a struggle for them. What about all the British and US troops who are being killed everyday? They’re just doing their job and at the same time giving up their life for their country."


I say- Really? Or do I smell B#//sh*t. Right, all of us evil atheists hate everyone and everything. Is that what your religion has taught you? Read my post at:

http://www.religionisbullshit.net/2005/06/co-op-and-ignorant-bigots.php?show_id=111965514350260402#a333a3436706d

way up this page about deaths in Iraq on both sides before you JUDGE me. Others on here have said similar things about the shedding of innocent blood. Again is that part of your belief system's dogma about not questioning your religion but judging others? I don't like when innocents are killed on any side. Those who jump up and down with GLEE when THAT HAPPENS, burning other countries flags, and yelling death to whomever they don't like however are probably justifiably open to correction, sometimes even by lethal means.


Then you say:
"AA, you say that you have the right to judge any belief, but what about the belief that you have? You believe that there is no God…I respect your belief...Is it so hard for you to respect mine? We all belong to different groups…Even you do…Your classed as an Atheist and I’m classed as a Muslim… Can’t we all just get on?"

I say- Go ahead, SLAM the shit out of my NON-existant belief of a god. I doesn't really hurt that much, if at all. My belief DOESN'T require respect nor worship. It doesn't ask for innocents to be killed, tithes to be paid, praises to be uttered and followers to defend it. It doesn't crave power, nor money nor control. It is hard though to respect beliefs that preach killing or shunning non-believers, don't take it personally but islam isn't the only one that does that. My non-existant belief of a god doesn't say anything about that, hell it says nothing about anything. What different groups would that be? Actually every one of is born an atheist, no baby believes in anything, it's later in life we choose to believe in gods or not. I choose not to, you choose to. GOOD for you that you do, BETTER for me that I don't. I usually get along just fine with most people I know.


You also said:
"AA, Because you don’t believe in anything (even in your own creation) there’s no point wasting time on you. However, since you are judging, you must read the history and see that in those days what sort of atrocities were being committed against Muslims, and their belief. That is why they were being told they should defend themselves. In that context it was a defensive NOT an offensive move. Everybody has a right to defend themselves against people who are committing such grave attacks. The enemies were killing woman, children, old people, sick people and it was in that context that they were defending themselves"


I say- So am I just a waste of oxygen to you then? How nice. I've read a bit of history. So what's your point? It's full of one side of believers KILLING a bunch of people on another side who believe something else. And those who documented those conflicts always portrayed the OTHER side as evil, woman-and-children-killing barbarians. Didn't you have some point earlier about BIASED media? Today the quran still contains passages that commands I be killed for not believing. Seems a little harsh for an all-loving 'god' to command, don't you think? You interpret that context as a defense in it's time, the past; I live in the present, I percieve those passages as an offence against me. Seems to me a belief system with that attitude would see me as waste of oxygen, so maybe I should be exterminated? I guess from a biased view.


You said:

"Seriously dude…You have Muslim friends? Well I sure feel sorry for them! Maybe you should print off everything you have written about Muslims and show it to them. Do they know how you feel about their religion? Or are you too afraid to speak the truth and your only release is this message board?"


I say- Yes, dude, I have muslim friends. Why would you feel sorry for them? I treat them with respect as HUMAN BEINGS, as friends, and as equals. And they know I'm a rabid atheist. I've asked them about their beliefs, and to explain to me why in the quran it does say to basically kill me for just not believing, seems a little harsh for a command from an all-loving god. They, like you don't have a good answer. Makes me wonder why people would follow such beliefs.



Like I said I'm judging the message, not the followers, not going around calling others retards, fools, ignorant or assuming falsehoods about them, etc. And if you have a problem with that then I suggest you get help before you strike out against others in hate.


Religion is still B#//sh*t.

AA
AccursedAtheist , 10.07.2005, 8:41am link
Why don’t you people understand my point? This isn’t a personal attack against you guys. I’m not out on a ploy to try and change the worlds views on my religion. I doubt that from changing your minds about my religion this world will become a better place. My point is that people (not necessarily you people) are constantly putting us down like as though we should run around them and like as though we are inferior because of our belief. Such comments like “Muslims should get out of our country” and “Paki’s are not welcome” are not very nice comments to see on message boards or even to hear on the news. It’s demeaning for us and it sure makes me feel worthless, but the fact of the matter is that we’re not trying to take over your country, we just want to be part of it.
The people that you are constantly hearing about in the news are a small percentage of our religion who are taking things too far and totally misinterpreting Gods message and making up their own sh*t. Like I’ve said before, I don’t agree with those people, I don’t want anything to do with those people and NEVER will I be like those people. I just want to make it clear that there’s good and bad in all of us and people (and again not necessarily you ) are so judgemental about things without actually getting the facts right. I’m not saying my religion is the best religion in the world and that if any of you guys turned your back on me I’d grab the nearest gun and shoot you all…That is NOT what our religion taught us…I’ve got a mind of my own and I know that that is ethically wrong and I wouldn’t do such a thing. I wouldn’t be following such a religion if that was true. I’m just a normal human being like each one of you, with the exception that I have a different belief… but that doesn’t mean I’m going to kill you! On Friday my Dad was telling me about a fire that happened at a mosque in Leeds because of what happened in London. Bet you guys didn’t hear about that…because they don’t put unimportant stories like that in the news. And I bet this fire is the first of many to come and its not fair on the innocent people who are just going to the mosque to pray. This is continually happening all over the world ever since 9/11 and now even more because of what happened in London. Now these people who are going to pray in the mosque are not at all linked with any of the violent attacks that happened and yet they are being targeted just because they are Muslim. You tell me is that right of the non-Muslim fundamentalists? I’ve admitted its totally wrong of the Muslim fundamentalists who carry out violent attacks, but there’s other fundamentalist groups in this world who are carrying out attacks on not just Muslim people, but Christians, Hindus, Jews, Atheists etc. It’s ALL the fundamentalist groups in this world who are taking their religious beliefs too far that need to be punished.

AA: “I'm sure the highjackers who flew the planes into the WTC's towers believed they were doing it for allah. You may not like that fact, but it is the TRUTH.I don't see how anyone can deny that.”

Yes AA, they “claim” they were doing it for Allah, but that is NOT Allah‘s message. Any Muslim in their right mind would not do that… Don’t you know the Al-Qaeda are making up that sh*t and they’re using Gods name as a defence for their actions, when really their actions having nothing to do with God and they’ve made all that crap up themselves. Its people like the Al-Qaeda and other fundamentalist groups who are giving the majority of decent Muslims a bad name…its just not fair.

E_d: “All this violence, hatred because people think there GOd is better than others.”

Err, e_d we all have the same God. There isn’t a Muslim God and a Christian God and a Jewish God etc etc. My boyfriends Christian and we both worship the same God.

Gilgamesh: “You call E_D and Sierra retards but when I try to start a reasoned discussion with you on how to deal with the problems, you wave aside my comments with a 'brainwashed by the media' comment and claim there are absolutely no problems. Plainly there are.
Come on, who exactly DO you get along with?”

Sorry Gilgamesh I don’t really remember saying that there are no problems…There are TOO many problems in this world and I’m not putting all the blame on non-Muslims…Can’t you see I’m blaming everyone! Everyone is just too stubborn and everyone in this world thinks that this place was made solely for them.
Me? I get along with ALL types of people. Out of my three best friends, one is Hindu, one is Christian and the other is Sikh. And the majority of my other friends are either Christian or Atheist. I’ve probably got a total of 3 good Muslim friends. So as you can see I get on with a whole array of people.
Xainy , 10.07.2005, 12:38pm link
Xainy,

Thanks for your response. When you read stuff on message boards like this, take it with a grain of salt. Often the more obnoxious comments are made just to get a reaction.

I'm disappointed that you still did not acknowledge the problems in your religion that I brought up, other than to suggest that the media may have made them up.

However, since you don't saeemt o want to go there, fine. Consider it dropped.

I truly hope this latest attacks do not adversly affect you, your family or other muslims, as tat would be incredibly unjust.

Cheers
Gilgamesh [Email], 11.07.2005, 4:06am link
In spite of what Xainy may want to believe, Islam actually DOES incourage the slaughter of innocents for not believing, the oppression of women, slavery, inequality and other injustices.
I've actually read that dreadful piece of rubbish known as the Quran, and I can tell you that Bin Laden and his associates are actually closer to being true Muslims than all of those misguided 'Islam is a religion of peace' idiots.
Islam is NOT a religion of peace, it is a religion of mindless conformity, violence, death, war, genocide and sexism (just like Christianity). Islam is a disease, a cancer which, if it is not stopped in time, will end up destroying us all.
PA , 15.07.2005, 3:32am link
I fucking hate christians, they are a bunch of deluded sad bastards. I would quite like to pile them all on a fire and poke them wile they burn. I mean, they talk to an invisible man in the sky...in any other parliance that means they are nuts. And they have been so utterly brainwashed that they will slate me for making these comments and doubtless tell me i will burn in hell. Hell does not exist, God does not exist, That Book is a just a pretty story, which a bunch of feeble minded idiots decided must be true..and why must it be true? Becuause you are all AFRAID, Afraid to think for yourselves, and afraid to accept that you are insignificant and an animal, just like every other animal on the face of this planet. Religion has caused more death than anything else.I am not afraid to take sole responsibility for my actions, I am intelligent enough to be able to form my own moral code. I observe the decline of christianity with glee, there are so few left in the u.k that saying "I am a christian" now draws odd looks.
All Hail a bright new future, where no-one can pass the buck or excuse their weakness on the basis of a book which has more use when used as toilet paper.. (and by the way, I have indeed ripped up a bible and used it to wipe my ass, the pages are very soft if you crinkle them up a bit).
victoria [Email], 03.08.2005, 1:27pm link
and by the way, I'm not muslim either.
victoria [Email], 03.08.2005, 1:33pm link
you sound like me in my psot earlier when we first met e_d. except your short 3 paragraphs

(n_n)-5 days to B-day!
Shaggy , 04.08.2005, 12:46am link
Wow, long conversation, not quite following it but I do have blurry eyes now from the attempt.

To the original arguement - The Co-op decided to cut ties with CV because CV's policy on sexual orientation is openly prejudicial and they don't want that to reflect on their business. I can understand why they'd do that.

The idea that all religion/religious belief is destructive is probably flawed by the fact that it involves human beings - and each person can read/learn the same thing and take a completely different way of thinking/living from it.

On the flipside, I'll agree that there are many wars and disputes in the name of religious belief... Though would they fight over something else if not whom to believe in and how?

If we could learn to live and let live then religion or anything else that doesn't harm another person wouldn't be a problem any more.
Me , 20.09.2005, 8:37pm link

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