Comments on Religious hatred

If they're arrogant enough to think they know the truth, they must be arrogant enough to know they have special privileges.
Joey [Email], 10.06.2005, 4:51pm link
tim, i shouldn't think you'll have any problems because of this site. maybe they'll make you moderate the comments or something. then again i have no idea how enthusiastic they're gonna be, maybe you'll be burnt at the stake.

if you were to be burned at the stake i'd be disappointed. i'd have no one to argue with. and that's the point really, if we have a right to free speech we have a right to free argument and free criticism.

that annoying quote - "i may not agree with what you say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it" - i think it applies here.

i agree, i don't see why religious hatred should be singled out. in this country at least, i think hatred in the name of religion is more of a worry than hatred against religion. forget sites like this, it's THAT that people should be worrying about.

ffyona [Email][Home], 10.06.2005, 8:40pm link
There probably are people out there who would want to bring back horrific public executions and everything, but I believe the maximum sentence will be 7 years (although I'm not sure exactly what you'd have to do to get the maximum sentence).

I don't want to censor the comments - let everyone have their say and people will soon see the idiots and bigots and trolls for what they are.
Tim [Home], 10.06.2005, 11:19pm link
Tim, I think the law is reasonable. It is not going to legislate anyone's religious beliefs on you. What exactly are you concerned about?

When you receive hate, send out love and love will come back to you. This is the best way to deal with "trolls" or those sending you hate.

Promote spiritual growth Tim. I know you are for this. Read the course in miracles and listen to Marianne Williamson, Deepok Chopra and others.
Mr. X , 11.06.2005, 12:02am link
I live in Victoria, Australia, where the right to express our views have, in fact, already been curtailed by so-called vilification laws. There has already been one infamous example of a Christian minister being hauled into court because he made certain comments about the Islamic religion which were interpreted by those targeted as being 'slanderous'. I'm not familiar with all the details, but what I do know is that he told his congregation that Islam was a false and dangerous religion, which it is of course, and for this he was threatened with jail.
I guess this answers your question 'what exactly are you concerned about?' Mr X.
PA , 11.06.2005, 6:06am link
ah yes, the wonderous world of religion. Everywhere i come on the net, its basically the same thing. For sopme reason they can tell non-believers that we are stupid, going to hell, etc etc... basically scolding us, in their own language.
But when non-believers do it, it's pushed on as evil or 'slanderous'...
it's scary that religious people can set up this barrier of 'pity' and even have the law to back them up.
it's sad...
Shangori , 11.06.2005, 1:42pm link
Just dropinin in again!

Apparantly, some years ago, McDonalds took advantage of slander laws in England and attempted to use them to silence some small-time activists who said that McDonalds was putting out unhealthy food. The problem is that laws intended for the public good are being turned around by special interest groups and being used for public harm. Now, I'll agree that it is just plain rude to spread false information (a common tactic by Christian groups within the United States), and its harmful, if not downright evil (if you'll excuse the phrase) to encite messages of destruction. But if a cult is dangerous, then the public needs to know. After all, if a dissenting voice is silenced, then we become no better than Saudi Arabia, where people are jailed for suggesting that it isn't a sin to sit and listen to the sound of bubbling water.

I agree with the others...I see no call on your website for harm to be done to Christians or their place of worship, or anyone else for that matter. You are targeting an idea and, frankly, calling it bullshit. The most harm that could do is cause a person to leave their place of worship.

Now, onto the idea of dangerous cults...we've all heard about the child abuse scandals within the Catholic church. Well, it isn't just for Catholics any more. Within the United States, a number of adult youth leaders in mainstream protestant churches are now being accused of improper (sexual) relationships with their charges, some as young as ten years old. Sadly enough, with one case within my own metropolitan area, the entire church, including the pastor, knew of the relationship, but did not call authorities because they were afraid it would "harm the church". (Clergy, along with teachers, doctors, and police officers, are required by law within the United States to report any SUSPECTED physical or sexual abuse or neglect.)

Such news and editorials are NECESSARY for protecting the public at large. Its shocking, yes. It might cause people to rethink how safe their church is, yes. It will bolster non-believers concern that religion can be, and is, dangerous, yes. But did I call for all churches to be shut down? People to be strung up? Religion to made illegal? No. I'm willing to allow it all to die a natural death. If an organization needs the government to prop it up and help it stand, then it has no right being in existence in the first place.
Dropinin , 11.06.2005, 2:07pm link
"Islam was a false and dangerous religion, which it is of course". When one religion who claims to have the ultimate truth slams another one, it could lead to trouble.
New agers like myself do not promote hated against anyone or claim God to be "ours". God is within, and accessible to all.
If you want a peaceful world, then fill it with people who are full of inner peace.

God is within, and has no religion.
Mr. X , 11.06.2005, 5:44pm link
The Church of Reality is a religion that is based on believing in everything that is real. Yes - we are Atheists, but realism gives us a religious identity.
Marc Perkel [Email][Home], 12.06.2005, 7:06am link


ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 13.06.2005, 2:10am link
ED, PUBS CLOSE IN THE UK AT 12! i told you to do your research...Anyway back to the topic at hand, when i heard about this new law, i nearly fell over backwards! not only does it go against our fundamental right of free speech, it also shows how Mr Blair does not have a mind of his own! so glad i did not vote for him, although it did'nt make much of a difference.
uk girl , 13.06.2005, 10:34am link
apparently pubs stop serving at 10pm on a sunday night. i was gutted.

i can't believe i never knew that! gits.

the other issue with the religious hatred law is that it would prevent people from speaking up against religion in other countries. for example, if you were to criticise the treatment of a minority group (atheists, buddhists, christians) in a muslim country such as iraq, that could be considered incitement of religious hatred. or the oppression of minority groups in christian countries like the US and the UK.

you just know that people are going to take advantage these laws to do whatever the hell they want, free from criticism.

ffyona [Email][Home], 13.06.2005, 12:32pm link
uk girl, did you just get back from hen night at EROS nightclub in Enfield, where all you blonde, tatooed UK babes get drunk?
Did you have a couple of red bulls before drinking so you can stay awake and drink more?
You Brits have got to stop drinking and posting (sorry to be repetitive).
Religion deserves to be protected, and it will great day when Tim's website is shutdown for good.
Next is that welfare collecting bum, Brother Jeff.
eternal_damnation , 14.06.2005, 1:06am link

"Evolutionism is a fairy tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped nothing in the progress of science. It is useless."

Email this quote to a friend! Prof. Louis Bounoure,
President Biological Society of Strassbourg, Director of the Strassbourg Zoological Museum, Director of Research at the French National Centre of Scientific Research. The Advocate, p. 17

"Don't let the cosmologists try to kid you on this one. They have not got a clue either–despite the fact that they are doing a pretty good job of convincing themselves and others that this is really not a problem.

'In the beginning,' they will say, 'there was nothing–no time, space, matter or energy. Then there was a quantum fluctuation from which...'

Whoa! Stop right there. You see what I mean? First there is nothing, then there is something. And the cosmologists try to bridge the two with a quantum flutter, a tremor of uncertainty that sparks it all off.

Then they are off and away and before you know it, they have pulled a hundred billion galaxies out of their quantum hats."

Dr. D. Darling,
"On creating something from nothing," New Scientist, Vol

"It should now be clear where the follies of evolutionary views lie. If someone presents a model for explaining the origin of life, but he cannot say where the creative information characteristic of all life forms came from, then the crucial question remains unanswered.
Somebody who looks for the origin of information only in physical matter, ignores the fundamental natural laws about information; what is more, he scorns them.
It is clear from the history of science that one can ignore the laws of nature for a limited time only."

"I could prove God statistically; take the human body alone; the chance that all the functions of the individual would just happen, is a statistical monstrosity."

George Gallup,
Famous statistician


Evolutionism is a fairy tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped nothing in the progress of science. It is useless."

Prof. Louis Bounoure,
President Biological Society of Strassbourg, Director of the Strassbourg Zoological Museum, Director of Research at the French National Centre of Scientific Research.



eternal_damnation , 14.06.2005, 1:34am link
No drinking and posting?

That's me going straight to hell then. Do I get to stop for a beer on the way?
Steve [Home], 14.06.2005, 10:43am link
e_d stop with your bullshit. Somethings are impossible to explain as we just cant comprehend what happened, but your argument can also be used against god - how was he created? How did he create things out of nothin? what was there before this god appeared? etc...
and dont just say "he always existed" bullshit, at least we try to explain things, unlike you who just sais its wrong. We are no where near to mastering quantum mechanics yet so before you try to disprove everything maybe you should help to try to understand it first.

please lets get off this argument, you couldnt win it before, your not going to win it now. You have not provided any evidence to disprove evolution, all you have provided is insults and peoples opinions.
Dodge , 14.06.2005, 6:04pm link
E_D i take great offence to that! I AM NOT BLOND, FROM ENFIELD NOR AM I TATOOED!!! Adam and Eve is bullshit, it was created by the early catholic church to demonise women and make it look like women are made from men and are evil. Prior to this early pagans believed women were godesses and life givers, and that the only way for a man to get to heaven was through having sex with a women. As you can see the christian especially catholic church wouldn't like this, so they demonised it. Evolution, to me, makes sense, christianity is based on lies so therefore is bullshit.
uk girl , 15.06.2005, 10:30am link
'Just state one fact that I can send to my creationist scientists for verification' E_D
Okay E_D, here's one little fact that you have obviously not noticed. Evolution is primarily about change and adaptation to change. We quite obviously do not live in a static universe (do you agree on this point by any chance?), so it stands to reason that life-forms will have to adjust to, for example, climatological changes which can be quite rapid. The ones that successfully adapt to changed circumstances will live, while those that don't wont. Before you know it, a particular life-form has come to thrive and dominate a particular ecological niche. This dominance will then in turn affect all other life-forms within this niche, forcing them to come to terms with changed circumstances and so on, and so on, and so on. It's called 'The Web of Life' - interconnectedness. There. Simple.
I must say that I am really worried about your so-called 'creationist scientists'. That would have to be the ultimate oxymoron (contradiction of terms). Kind of like 'military intelligence', or 'honest politician'. It's quite obvious from their title that they will not, because they cannot, be objective, but will instead strive to prove their pre-cooked assertions about how life was (in their opinion) meant to be. Am I wrong?
PA , 15.06.2005, 11:50am link
"Adam and Eve is bullshit, it was created by the early catholic church to demonise women and make it look like women are made from men and are evil. "

UK girl. actually, the Adam & Eve story is in the OT which is much older than the Catholic Church or Christianity. It actually has its origins in ancient Sumerian beliefs long before the Bible was written!

Other than that, carry on.

Oh, and E_D is a troll. DON'T FEED THE TROLLS
Gilgamesh , 16.06.2005, 12:17pm link
The fascinating thing about conversations like this is that everyone is so completely certain. “Evolution is a crock/Adam and Eve are a double crock/There is no God/You’re going to burn in Hell”…come on. How can any of you be so sure of yourslves?

You know that God was always there. You know the godless universe was always there. Here’s a bulletin, guys. None of you has even the most rudimentary idea of how any of ths came about. People whose mission is to promulgate unknowable truths place themselves in a pretty tough position. It’s the ultimate self-absorption, thinking you’ve actually figured out any of this. It’s in the Bible. Hawkings said it. I said it. Geez.

Come on, if there’s a God who can do anything, then he can do anything, right? He can do creation or evolution or both or neither. He can fool us by planting fossils all over the place, and limit our minds so that we can’t comprehend the impossibility of a spontaneous universe. He can mess around with the physical laws so that we’ll never have a unification theory, or permit someone to discover it so that we’ll maybe have more reason to doubt him. Or maybe this faith thing is a boondoggle to begin with. Why would God care whether some are able stretch (contort?) their minds so as to believe everything in the Bible, the Koran or the Beatles lyrics? Why would any of that be particularly virtuous? For that matter, why wouldn’t it be, if God’s the one referreeing?

Is a spontaneous universe any more or less evident than the existence of a supreme being? None of you can begin to answer that question. Our knowledge of eternity, creation, the universe, etc. is negligible. If there is a God, it might be nil. Get off your high horses. Eternal, not only are you clueless about whether God exists; you don’t even know what he wants out of you if he does exist. Tim, if you think you can out-think God with your microscopic little consciousness, you’re in for a real shock on Judgment Day.

It’s anyone’s prerogative to state an opinion on the net, but your self-assurance makes you foolish. The only assurance any of us should have is that we really don’t know all that much.
AlanInBigD [Email], 16.06.2005, 3:42pm link
I know there is no god the same way I know there is not a giant pink bunny sitting here next to me.

There COULD be a giant pink bunny (I will concede that) but before I believe I need to see some proof.

Its the same with Mr. Diety-farce. He COULD exist, but until you show me some INDEPENDANT, VERIFIABLE evidence I will assume it does not exist.

Evolution and big bang however have left evidence everywhere. That I believe.

It is not foolsihness to believe in what I can see and touch and reject what can not be seen, touched or verified.


Sierra [Email], 16.06.2005, 5:19pm link
e_d, you have listed no evidence whatsoever against evolution, jsut a bunch of random quotes from random people on their own opinions. opinions do not change the world, i'm sorry, but that's life.

please list the proof you have e_d that we were made of mud.

e_d is all the dying church has to offer to us. bullying others into their circle of intolerance. you show all the love the church can offer, and it can no longer save us. go blow your nose if you need to, but the churhc is indeed losing influence on this planet.

why must you rely off of media stereotypes e_d? is it becuase you're too afraid to find out the truth? i somehow doubt that everyone in the UK goes to the bar every friday to drink away their problems. do note however, that if this stereotype is true, that none of them go to a church to get help. england use to be quite the religous capital, but a lot of people over there now realize religion has only brought blood shed to the world.

Love thy neighbor as you ahve loved me.-Jesus. what does his tell you e_d? if you truly are a "good" hearted christian, why do you constantly ignore the son of gods comamnd? if you love us as much as you love jesus, it only goes to show waht the church really has to offer.

i will not bow to a women hating child beting emotionally controlled lying ego-freak.

back and eating pizza, CJ
CJ , 16.06.2005, 9:26pm link
Gilgamesh, UK girl just got back from hen night at EROS nightclub. That's why she doesn't make sense. 20 Beers and 4 Red bulls doesn't help.
Blonde, blueeyed, tatooed english babes are not bright.
Tell "you know who" that working for a living is nice.
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 16.06.2005, 11:29pm link
Ya' gotta love gods disciples like E_D.

They enbody everything this is wrong and bullshit-laden about religion.

There is no god.

Sierra [Email], 17.06.2005, 12:40am link
Well, Sierra, Bible-thumpers like Eternal Damnation are the very reason why Christianity is dying a slow, painful, wretched death on its own. And I say (two thumbs up) KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, E-D! WE'RE ROOTING FOR YOU!

Adam and Eve are, in a sense, Sumerian...except it was a whole group of Hermaphroditic beings that were split in two to form men and women (that's where the confusion of "Eve" being created from "Adam" came in.) Personally, I don't mind the Adam and Eve story...woman swallowed the entire fruit of the tree of knowledge, and with Adam, it got stuck in his guess who is smarter? Hee hee hee. Just kidding. The Gnostics have a better take on it...that the snake was the Goddess who was trying to rescue mankind from the evil liar that the Hebrews thought was God, but was actually Satan. The Deists have a funny version, too (they essentially give the Bible-God the finger and walk out of the garden).

Anyone want to join Steve and I for a cyber-beer on our long journey to place that exists only the minds of Christians? It make take some heavy payote to find it, though.
Dropinin , 17.06.2005, 3:13am link
yeah, me and a good deal of my friends agree that chrisitanity is dying, and the rate of it's death is increasing. you cannot determine the entire worlds thoughts. they tried anyways,and all it got them was another hole in their boat. it's their fault, they brought it upon themselves.

and i'd love to join ya for a beer. you can come too e_D! maybe if you're drunk, you'll pass out! what a lovely thought! then again, the abrtender would ahve to sweep you up, but i supose you'd expect UK girl to do it.

it's funny e_d, because you call UK girl a drunk whereas your religion is rather heavy on the alcohol...

e_d, take your worthless stereotypes home and go pray to the man nailed to the telephone pole. it wont help you one bit.
CJ , 17.06.2005, 5:25am link
E_D i happen to be a brunnette, and for your information EROS is a gay nightclub in Birmingham (England)! Never been there, but as you know so much about it i take it you are of homosexual orientation!I do not have any tatoos and nightclubs are not open in the day time. I believe you are extremely unintelligent, especially if you believe that evolution doesn't exist.
uk girl , 17.06.2005, 2:09pm link
Sierra, does evidence of the Big Bang have anything to do with the existence of God? Or evidence of evolution? Those things only bear on whether the Bible, etc. are credible as to how things got started. Maybe the Bible is mistaken. Maybe God thought the Big bang was the best way to do it.

The fact that there are many religions, all claiming infallibility, sort of says it all to me. I can’t see where any one of them is particularly more convincing than another. All of it suggests, doesn’t it, that religious doctrine is made up by people, not by deities. But if Hari Krishna doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, does that preclude the possibility that there is a supreme force of some sort?

We can recall Doctor/Barber Theodoric of York and his state-of-the-art bloodletting cures for depression and arthritis, and smirk that our knowledge has reached the point where we need no longer rely on medieval superstition. But Theo thought the same thing. He thought he practiced advanced medicine and that his predecessors were primitives. And you know what, there were atheists back then, too—lots of them. It doesn’t take science to be an atheist, only an analytical mind. But analytical minds don’t always analyze correctly.

My point is we’re not nearly as far along on the knowledge continuum as we assume. Sure, if asked whether there was an Adam and Eve with fig leaves and all that, I have to say I’m quite doubtful. But if asked whether I think I know how the original matter of the Big Bang was formed, I’ve got to say I don’t. That might be because my brain is not advanced enough to comprehend eternity, timelessness or a fourth dimension. Maybe one day people will have that ability. (Though we can discuss and analyze it, even apply mathematics to it, I suggest we can’t really comprehend it—cant get our arms around it.) Or maybe, there’s not a really good answer other than magic—an occurrence inconsistent with all other physical laws. We don’t know all those laws yet, so to offer an answer is presumptuous. Actually, a better word is one of my favorites: ultracrepediarianism—stating opinions beyond one’s knowledge.

AlanInBigD [Email], 17.06.2005, 2:50pm link

1. "...does evidence of the Big Bang have anything to do with the existence of God?"

Yes. We are told that the bible is infallible. We are told that the bible accurately chronicles the "creation" of life on earth. The more we know about how the universe formed the more we realize the bible is wrong. If it is wrong, it is NOT infallible. What else is it wrong on?

2. "Or evidence of evolution?"

Bit by bit the evolution theory is being proved. Big bang is the origin state for this.

3. "Those things only bear on whether the Bible, etc. are credible as to how things got started. Maybe the Bible is mistaken."

Hey, don't say that. Ask the religous types, especially the evangellicals. They believe the bible is the INFALLIBLE word of god. That is where the problems start.

4.) "...Maybe God thought the Big bang was the best way to do it."

Perhaps. Maybe there is no god.

5.) "The fact that there are many religions, all claiming infallibility, sort of says it all to me. I can’t see where any one of them is particularly more convincing than another. All of it suggests, doesn’t it, that religious doctrine is made up by people, not by deities."

Sounds right.

6.) "....But if Hari Krishna doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, does that preclude the possibility that there is a supreme force of some sort?"

Well, if you concede that the bible was written by men then obviously it is one big lie. There could still be a god, but apparently we have never met him because we have no knowledge of him.

7.) "...We can recall Doctor/Barber Theodoric of York and his state-of-the-art bloodletting cures for depression and arthritis, and smirk that our knowledge has reached the point where we need no longer rely on medieval superstition. But Theo thought the same thing. He thought he practiced advanced medicine and that his predecessors were primitives. And you know what, there were atheists back then, too—lots of them. It doesn’t take science to be an atheist, only an analytical mind. But analytical minds don’t always analyze correctly.

My point is we’re not nearly as far along on the knowledge continuum as we assume. Sure, if asked whether there was an Adam and Eve with fig leaves and all that, I have to say I’m quite doubtful. But if asked whether I think I know how the original matter of the Big Bang was formed, I’ve got to say I don’t. That might be because my brain is not advanced enough to comprehend eternity, timelessness or a fourth dimension. Maybe one day people will have that ability. (Though we can discuss and analyze it, even apply mathematics to it, I suggest we can’t really comprehend it—cant get our arms around it.) Or maybe, there’s not a really good answer other than magic—an occurrence inconsistent with all other physical laws. We don’t know all those laws yet, so to offer an answer is presumptuous. Actually, a better word is one of my favorites: ultracrepediarianism—stating opinions beyond one’s knowledge."


There is no god. EVOLUTION lives!!!!

Sierra [Email], 17.06.2005, 5:33pm link
"There is no god. EVOLUTION lives!!!!


Sierra [Email], 17.06.2005, 5:33pm"

As you would point out to ED, saying it's so doesn't make it so. What good is it to beat up on the evangelicals if only to become one for the other side? Is it possible you have overestimated your own clarity on the subject? Let's hear some reasoning. It's the bible thumpers who are supposed to say they don't need reasons because they know it's true.

Authoritarianism comes in lots of flavors.

AlanInBigD [Email], 17.06.2005, 8:19pm link
Alan, you seem to be talking about Deism. I.E. Dogma-free, accepting the scientific process and principal, believing that God set up the universe so that evolution would happen, etc. Most Atheists have no problem with Deists, as they are persons who tend to use the brains that "God" (or nature if you prefer) gave them...the only sticking point between Atheism, Deism, and Agnosticism is the point about G-O-D.

I understand what you say in "Authoritarianism comes in lots of flavors". However, if you want a full discussion on all of the angles of evolution, I suggest the nice little message board over at "No Answers In Genesis". ( ) That webpage was specifically designed to combat the anti-evolution/pro-young-earth creationist crowd. Most of the gentlemen there are fairly nice, intelligent guys who are extremely well versed in all of the scientific precepts, and most of them are even accepting of the Deistic point of view. In fact, they use to have a Deist on the board. This board is, as the very top says, about Tims (and our own) opinions on the absurdity and dangers of religious belief. Now, if you want to discuss how teaching evolution can be beneficial, taking it away isn't, then fine...lets go there.
Dropinin , 17.06.2005, 9:18pm link

ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 18.06.2005, 1:22am link
UK GIRL, EROS is nightclub in Enfield, north of london. 20 minute from Enfield train station.
Read your bible.
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 18.06.2005, 1:26am link

"UK GIRL, EROS is nightclub in Enfield, north of london. 20 minute from Enfield train station.
Read your bible."

Sorry, even I'm confused by this one - are you saying that Eros nightclub is mentioned in the bible?

And there was me thinking the bible was the religious book of christianity, seems it may well just be an alternative to Time Out...
bogue , 18.06.2005, 4:19am link
sorry E_D, don't have a bible and I've never had one, plus i live no-where near London, funnily enough not all Brits live in or near London!!!why don't you go to your church "the international house of pancakes" and stuff you fat American face?
uk girl , 18.06.2005, 10:08am link
"UK GIRL, EROS is nightclub in Enfield, north of london. 20 minute from Enfield train station.
Read your bible."

I got the same idea as bogue did from that statement.

Well hey! With all of the sex, whores, drugs, and general naughtiness in the Bible, maybe it IS listed there! "And Jonathan went in unto the Eros, located near Londinium in Britannia, and stuck his spear something sweet. And God and David so loved Jonathan that they did not curse him."

I've read the Bible, UK girl...personally, I give it a thumbs down. "The First Man in Rome" is far better as far as historical fiction goes, and far more historically accurate.
Dropinin , 18.06.2005, 2:26pm link
It occurred to me...funny how a "Christian" yank knows exactly where the Eros is...then again, considering the way the fundamentalist Christian leaders in America keep getting busted for sex, drugs, theft, and other illegal acts, I shouldn't be too surprised.
Dropinin , 18.06.2005, 2:37pm link
I'm not an american. For alleged logical thinkers you make too many assumptions.
That's why you believe evolution.
I've been to UK many times. London is a nice city. History, culture, and sights are beautiful.
I like Guiness, Old speckled hen and Kilkenny.
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 18.06.2005, 5:42pm link
e_d i like your mother too, tell her i'l be back for more later tonight ;)
Dodge , 18.06.2005, 6:22pm link
Didn't know you were a necrophiliac dodge.
Your a sick person.
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 18.06.2005, 7:45pm link
i see e_d is back to spreading the word of god the only way he can. bitching and screaming and making others feel like shit. great way to spread the love of god e_d, keep it up! only a few more years to go before people start to think for themselves!

and why do you call UK girl a drunk? isn't your brutal religion centered around drinking the blood of a man? don't you get your dose of alcohol at church?

and maybe dodge didn't know your mom was dead.

Love thy nieghbor as you have loved me. you're ignoring me here, c'mon man, you're breaking my balls. what does jesus's command mean to you?
CJ , 18.06.2005, 8:51pm link
e_d i was wondering why she wasnt moving.
Dodge , 19.06.2005, 12:47am link
CJ , 19.06.2005, 4:11am link
If you want to see Mormon (moron) christianity at its finest, do a google on "Mountain Meadows Massacre".

Nothing like being one of "gods" deciples.

There is no god.

Sierra [Email], 19.06.2005, 5:47am link
And you like the Eros nightclub, apparantly, E_D.

The mormons are notorious for whitewashing everything they've done and said in the past. And it all started with Joseph Smith, creator of the LDS. He was a notorious con-man. Bunch of lying sack of $%#^'s, if you ask my opinion. My house use to be owned by years later, and their daughter is still sending her bills to my house, despite the fact that SHE knows that I know her address, phone number, and real name and send the information back to the company she's trying to steal from with a warning that she's a crook. (Sigh). Guess she's not getting that student loan this year.

Most Christians are the anti-Christ.
Dropinin , 19.06.2005, 1:58pm link
E_D glad you liked London, hope next time you go you stop of by my church, the worlds largest Topshop on Oxford Street, 6 floors of beautiful clothes! Beats going to any stuffy old church which smells like old men and has a dude on a cross!
uk girl , 19.06.2005, 4:10pm link
CJ, Dodge, relax, I'm not that bad of a person. I love UK pubs and enjoy a guiness when I'm there. I visit London once or twice a year. Unfortunately, I did go to EROS night club in 1999. Can't do that anymore since I've chosen a life of faith.
London is a beautiful city. UK girl, I love oxford street and the shopping. I could spend a fortune there.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I want eternal life, and only christianity offers it.
ETERNAL_DAMANTION , 19.06.2005, 9:32pm link
hmmm, seemed to have changed your mind all of a sudden e_d, whys that?
Dodge , 20.06.2005, 1:12am link
There it is....

E_D has "chosen a life of faith".

Some people stick their head in toilets.

Some use drugs.

Whatever the cause or method it all about escaping reality. No "god" approached them. E_D just DECIDED to believe.

Deciding does not make it so.

There is no god.

Sierra [Email], 20.06.2005, 1:20am link
It does so Sierra. Wait till you lose someone in your life.
I will see that person again in heaven. When I pass away, the lord Jesus christ will be there for me.

I choose Jesus over sin.
ETERNAL_DAMANTION , 20.06.2005, 1:55am link
Dodge, a lot of UK people on this web-board put down the US. I wanted you to have a taste of your own medicine. I'm not far from the US border and love america and american people.
ETERNAL_DAMANTION , 20.06.2005, 1:57am link
Oh no, say it ain't so. E_D are you implying you're in Canada?
AccursedAtheist , 20.06.2005, 3:42am link

Frist, let me quote you, "...Wait till you lose someone in your life.
I will see that person again in heaven. When I pass away, the lord Jesus christ will be there for me."

Let me make this perfectly clear... NO ONE is waiting for you. Anyone you know who died is dead and gone. Their body is slowly decomposing. They will not magicly regenerate on some holy day.

This is why it is important to love one another now.

When you are gone, you (and they) are gone.

"Chosing" Jesus-farce or any other silly bullshit does not change the facts.

The dead are DEAD.

There is no god.

Sierra [Email], 20.06.2005, 4:10am link
that is relly harsh sierra. iv'e never believed in a life after death, however after losing my grandfather last year very suddenly, it was a comfort to think he might be somewhere(and as he was a christian, i suppose in heaven) although i still do not believe in an "afterlife" i think it is still a comfort.
uk girl , 20.06.2005, 11:34am link
We put down the US because they deserve it. Look at what they are doing to the world and tell me there in the right??

I may hate the Us but i have not said anything about their citizens, just their leadership. You on the otherhand have insulted the intire British nation with your pathetic stereotypes.

UK Girl - i know its harsh but Sierra speaks the truth. Heaven does not exist, there is no afterlife. Once we die we decompose and our bodies are eaten by maggots (unless your cremated then your just ashes). I know it doesnt sound nice but its a truth that everyone should just except instead of using heaven to give us false hope.
Dodge , 20.06.2005, 2:15pm link
i agree with dodge, although "Little Britain" takes the piss in a funny way!!!
uk girl , 20.06.2005, 2:18pm link
e_d - "wait til you lose someone in your life"?

that's a horrible thing to say. the only boast we have is what christ did for us - translation: don't be smug.

"I know it doesnt sound nice but its a truth that everyone should just except instead of using heaven to give us false hope."

1) isn't it a bit hypocritical to tell someone what they SHOULD believe when that's the biggest crime ever committed by organised religion?

2)what the hell's wrong with uk girl believing in some kind of afterlife, even if you do think it is 'false hope'? if it helps deal with the immense pain of bereavement and she's not shoving it down anyone's throat (like you just tried to do) then what's the problem?

if i die and there's no afterlife, who gives a flying one? if i've dedicated my life to a fantasy then it really doesn't matter because that false hope has made me happy and if i'm wrong,i'll be far to dead and decomposed to really mind.

ffyona xxx
ffyona [Email], 20.06.2005, 7:41pm link
This conversatio i not about comfort, or the human need for fantasies, it is about truth. What you want to believe is up to you, and no-one is forcing you(or even encouraging you) to come here. I don't think that it is a good policy to include notions of what we want to believe in our arguments. This is about what we do believe, and what our brain/soul (your choice) tells us.

And no, telling us what we should believe is not the biggest crime perpetrated by religion. Forcing people through violene to obey them or die is.
Latin_lover [Email], 20.06.2005, 10:39pm link
I don't believe you Sierra. That person is alive in heaven where our souls go to if we obey christ.
I know in my hear that i will see that person again. The christian life style is way better. One partner to build a life with, moral values, a love for God and community. Thank goodness for the christian brothers who found me and revealed the truth.
The life of nightclubs, one-night stands is over (sorry UK girl, but UK women are too easy). I'll be visiting the UK for two weeks in October. Looking forward to it. I'll will definitely attend church as connect with my UK christian brothers and sisters.
I'll take Jesus over any of you.
ETERNAL_DAMANTION , 21.06.2005, 12:12am link
Yes AA, I'm living in Canada right now. Lots of wonderful christians where I live (small town).
Hope your feeling aren't hurt. Would you like me to send you a STRYPER CD?
ETERNAL_DAMANTION , 21.06.2005, 12:15am link
ahaha e_d, your blindness brings a smile to my face. You can believe what you want and live your life how you want but at some point you have to ask why? and then it will all come crashing down.

We do not have souls, we have consciousness, but there is no inner part of us that survives after we die. The word soul is used as terminology to describe someones core personality, it is nothing more than that, it does not exist physically.

I wouldnt go about judging UK girls on the handful you have met/seen on american tv shows. Thats how stereotypes get started and we all know how false they are. UK girls are just as "easy" as any other countries girls.
Dodge , 21.06.2005, 12:29am link
Dodge, I'm not the one who is blind. I know that Jesus is real. You are going to be shocked on your day of death when Jesus looks at you and asks you why you didn't believe? How are you going to respond?
Logic doesn't apply here. The spirit dimension exists, and is beyond our ability to measure it. When I had a serious meningitis infection and my brain was swelling, Jesus saved me that night. He told me not to worry, and that everything would be ok. Guess what, I got better thanks to Jesus. You will be calling out to Jesus on your death bed. Accept him, and he'll be there for you.
ETERNAL_DAMANTION , 21.06.2005, 2:07am link
The door is always open Dodge. Jesus knows we are weak and sinners. He doesn't expect us to be perfect. Just accept him, and live by his rules.
ETERNAL_DAMANTION , 21.06.2005, 2:08am link

Jesus does not know much. Jesus works at Hanson Muffler down the street from my house. He put a new muffler on my Bronco last summer.

The thing that makes christians so dammed shitty as people is the concept of "soul".

Thanks to "soul" christians can be assholes to everyone on earth but then, at death, confess, shed all the a float up to the big happy place, all that assholery forgotten and left behind.

Not me. I am what I am. When I die I want to be remembered for exactly who I am. I haven't always been nice to everyone and I am not perfect, but I also don't ask to be forgiven and then pretend that it did not happen.

THere is no god.

Sierra [Email], 21.06.2005, 2:37am link
I wonder why it takes near death experiences to convert most people to christianity?
could it be because you realise your life was short and you dont want to die yet, so you look for more time by any means possible, even how slim the chances are of getting it?
Just because you believe in Jesus does not make him exist.
So heaven isnt in the stars, its another dimension?? thats not what the bible sais.

Im not gonna be shocked on my death bed, i'll have lived my life the way i wanted, but you on the otherhand will have realised that you've wasted half of your life praying to fictional characters. Then who's going to have the last laugh?
Dodge , 21.06.2005, 1:43pm link
im not easy, yes i no some girls who are, but iv'e been with my boyfriend for three years. Dodge: i'm not religious either, but the comment: "you've wasted half of your life praying to fictional characters" is a little harsh, because if thats what people want to do then let them. As long as they don't try to violently and aggressivley shove down other peoples throughts then i don't see a problem!
uk girl , 21.06.2005, 4:55pm link
The Christian Coalition for American Assholes came to my door this morning.

DING-DONG, BANG-BANG there is someone at the door! It sounds urgent. They are rapping with such earnest that they use both the doorbell and their fist. I don't sleep in much more than a shirt and some underwear, so I'm getting up and looking for anything to cover myself and run to the door. I'm REALLY pissed at this point. I open the door, and Christian Coalition for Asshole Americans is there, disguised as a smiling, sweet, ray-of-sunshine late teenage years boy in a suit. He didn't care that I was half asleep and half naked, hiding behind the door. He really wanted to give me a flyer. He kept going on and on and on and I said, "Could you PLEASE... just leave it on the door?"

The flyer read:

"Dear Moms and Dads... We are happy to extend our invitation to you for your children to attend Neighborhood Bible Time. They will enjoy the fun, stories, refreshments, gifts, rewards, and making friends. It will be exciting!

We are very careful to keep all the activities safe and well supervised. You are welcome to come and observe all the fun activities.

Please let them come and respond to the challenge to (and this next part is in bold) honor God, and country.

Your Bible Time Staff"

Punctuation and grammar errors aside, this is STILL a very disturbing flyer. I guarantee if they didn't feed them or promise rewards (in other words, bribe them), they wouldn't show up. I don't think kids are going to spend their summer evenings in a church for some fucking ribbons. They probably all have phrases such as "God loves you!" and "Keep the faith!" written on them. Who gave these people the nerve to come to my door and give me this bullshit? If I'm asleep at 10:15 a.m. during summer vacation, do you think I have children small enough to go to fucking "Bible Time?!?!"

The other side of the flyer reads "Come join the fun at Neighborhood Bible Time Youth Crusade! June 19-24. Sunday - Friday 7:00 to 9:20 p.m (registration begins 1/2 hour early)." They have to REGISTER. Only condition? Ages? 4-years-old to 6th grade. Of course! They want to get them while they are still young.

Apparently "Teen Warrior Wars! Grades 7-12" is also listed.

The most disturbing part? There are American flags on both sides of the flyer.

The saddest part? They confirmed my fears. The terms "wars," "God," "country," "honor," and "crusade" are all on the same flyer. Who said religion doesn't play a part in America's politics these days? I would call them a liar. Adding the American flag only puts the last nail in the coffin.

It pisses me off they are bold enough to mix the American flag (which represents a far more diverse country than Christianity could fathom) with religion, anyway. Separation of church and state was an idea, yes, but the laws of man were founded on religion. Don't kill, don't steal, and the 11th commandment is going to be that you are to never disobey the Republicans. Yes, separation of church and state was an ideal thing, but they just throw idealist genius out of the window because they love George W. Bush and his delusional deceptions.

The mother fuckers even set up a bus route...

Yours in general disappointment of the general public,
Kristen Kelley [Email], 21.06.2005, 5:07pm link
THAT is the problem with religion. The can't just practice their silly beliefs in private. They start seeing the US (or UK or wherever) as a "christian nation".

UK girl says "As long as they don't try to violently and aggressivley shove down other peoples throughts then i don't see a problem!"...apparently what she means is that it would be OK for them to smile and announce that the UK was a christian nation and pass a law requiring attendance at church. After all, they did not do it violently or aggressively.

SCREW the religious.

There is no god.

Sierra [Email], 21.06.2005, 6:03pm link
thats not what i mean sierra, and that law would not be allowed to pass because it takes away the fundamental human right of "free will". What i meant was let religious people do what they want as long as they don't try to make others do what they do!
uk girl , 21.06.2005, 6:33pm link
Evolution is a fairy tale for grown ups? LMAO! And the Bible isn't?

That hypocrite Jesus who said that to call someone a fool could earn more than a life sentence in the flaming pits of Hell. This same Jesus later called people fools (and even devils) simply for disagreeing with him.

Even if evolution is only theory (it isn't), and even if there were no transitory fossils (there are plenty of them), how does it then follow that Jesus is a god? What happened to Allah, Jehovah, Brahma, Krsna, Quetzalcoatl, Thor, Ra, Apollo and the others? and what about all the goddesses?

Did God create the fowl from the ground (Gen. 2:19) or from the waters (Gen. 1:20)?

Did God make the beast first (Gen. 1:25) and then man (Gen 1:27, 1:31) or did he make man first (Gen. 2:7) and later the beast (Gen. 2:19)?

Did God make the fowl of the air first (Gen. 1:21) and then man (Gen. 1:27, 1:31) or did he create man first (Gen. 2:7) and later the winged fowl (2:19)?

Did God make the fruit tree first (Gen. 1:12-13) and later man (Gen 1:27, 1:31) or did he create man and woman first (Gen 2:7) and later the fruit trees (Gen. 2:9)?

Were the fowl and the beast created separately (Gen. 1:12, 1:23) or at the same time (Gen. 2:19)?

Did God create man in his own image (Gen. 1:27) or did man later "become as one of us" -- as one of the gods (Gen 3:5, 3:22)? And which one of the gods did man "become as one of"?

Did God create man in his own image, male and female (Gen. 1:27) or was woman more of an afterthought, created much later, after it was discovered that man could not find a companion (help meet) among the animals (Gen. 2:18-22, see esp. 20)?

What does God mean when he says "replenish the earth" in Gen. 1:28? How do you replenish something that has never been "plenished" in the first place? Are we to believe that people existed before Adam and Eve? If so, where else is this discussed in the Bible?

Show me there is a god and then show me that that god is Jesus. Do it in a discussion that does not resort to false science, but remains within the realm of truth.

Creationists claim that scientists cannot "prove" evolution, therefore it must be false. However, evolution has been firmly established to the point where it is now used to make predictions in developing hybrid plants and vaccinations. One wonders what the creationists mean when they tell us that we cannot "prove" evolution.
WildLiberal [Email], 21.06.2005, 6:55pm link
E_D: "I did go to EROS night club in 1999. Can't do that anymore since I've chosen a life of faith."

Hate to tell you this, E_D, but all the promises of the Ex-Gay Christian groups are a bunch of bull. Many wiser Christian groups have looked into it and have tracked down many of these so-called ex-gays. After interviewing these "graduates", their conclusions are:

1). Individual chose to remain celebate, but admits is still gay.

2). Tries to act hetero, but has to close eyes and imagine they are sleeping with a member of the same sex (thus they are still gay).

3). Were bi-sexual and convinced into dropping the homosexual relationships.

or, finally,

4). Gave up, realizing God made them gay, and that the Bible was a dung heap.

Kind of scandelous to think that all of the poster boys that they've been throwing out to the public as their token "ex-gays" found themselves right back in the gay bars, don't you think? Then again, the church has ALWAYS been behind the rest of the world when it comes to reality. Took forever for even the Catholic church to realize that lightening was a natural occurance and not God's punishment. Then lightening nearly burned down one of their most expensive buildings. Now all churches and Cathedrals have lightening rods.

Of course, if you really want to know what your God realy, truly said about homosexuality, you could just ask me. After all, I've read the original, couple-of-thousand-year-old Hebrew. Quite interesting how some idiots first in Rome, later in England, perverted the original text.
Dropinin , 21.06.2005, 9:29pm link
Tim what you are doing its a real test for all. I'm not a religios person but i tend to beliv that this world it's not on her own someone takes care of us its too much peace here on earth... I just wana tell you that i admire what you are doing and that you realy have a personality not like others which folow the priest like cows... Good Job man and i great site realy, i had a great time reading comments :D some made me LOL like hell :D

But Tim dont forget something that christianity made this world more civilizied from the history point of view so it had some good contribution for the world :P but as for Jesus and God we must all be open minded not COWS like many...
Pericle [Email], 21.06.2005, 10:55pm link
Sierra is a Yankee nut!!!
He is worse than E_D.
Timnot4me , 22.06.2005, 12:19am link
Hey Sierra,
screw you fascist.
Timnot4me , 22.06.2005, 12:21am link
Bite me you butt plug.

There is no god.

Sierra [Email], 22.06.2005, 6:48am link
No thanks E_D, you know how I feel about bands that wear yellow and black spandex!
AccursedAtheist , 22.06.2005, 6:57am link
Actually, Pericle, it could be argued that Christianity caused the dark ages.

The ancient Druids and ancient Eygptians could perform brain surgury successfully (with the patient still alive). Gone.

From India to Ireland, they used moldy bread as an anti-biotic. Gone.

(You'll notice that most healers were killed during the witchcraft trials).

The Ancient Greeks and ancient Romans had knowledge of simple mechanics, such as steam-powered doors, or coin-operated dispensers. Gone.

Indoor plumbing, sewer systems...things that originated even before the Greeks knew what civilization meant. Gone.

Roman Gaul and Roman Britannia had under-the-floor heating. Gone.

Ideas such as "the world is round" and "mankind came from a lower life form" were explored by Greek philosophers many hundreds of years before the alledged birth of Yeshua ben Joseph. Gone.

I'll agree with that Jesus isn't God. I'll whole-heartily agree with you that the priestocracy is a major cause of the downfall of kinds of spirituality. say that Christianity helped civilization? It did the same to Europe in the middle ages that Islam is currently doing in the Middle East.

Yellow and black spandex. (Dropinin falls over in howls of laughter). I actually went to Striper's concert some twenty years ago (got free tickets). The "Goodly little Christians" I encountered there were some of the nastiest, rudest, stuck up bunch of berks I've met at a concert.
Dropinin , 22.06.2005, 7:15pm link
Christianity to me represents the LOW point of human development.

I mean it....

Look at it this way, christians openly admit that their faith is all that is saving them from the pit of hell. Its like a safety net.

Athieism and science represent development ABOVE silly beliefs in gods and the like.

The more you evolve, learn and develop, the less likely you will need a "safety net" to save you from an angry deity or devil.

Freeing isn't it!!!

There is no god. Time to grow up.

Sierra [Email], 22.06.2005, 9:36pm link
get lost you dunce!! Your a disgrace to US. SO what do you want to do? Bomb christians?
Your the biggest idiot on this board.
Timnot4me , 22.06.2005, 11:25pm link
Sierra makes a valid point Timnot4me. Hes not disgracing America, your doing that all by yourself (assuming your a christian). Your insults wont do anything here other than to validate Sierra's and other peoples points.

The biggest idiots on this board are the ones whe follow blindly without asking questions. Ask to yourself Why? and How? Then tell me again how your faith can be true.
Dodge , 23.06.2005, 12:02am link
Hey Timnot4me,

Do you REALLY believe that an angry invisible man will smite you if you don't do as he asks?

I laugh so hard at that.

It's 2005. Time to grow up.

There is no god. There is no monster in the closet or under the bed.

Sierra [Email], 23.06.2005, 12:10am link
Hey, everyone! Timnot4me is trying to incite people to commit hate crimes against Christians!!!!
Arrest him!!!! Arrest him!!!!
(Ironic how it works with the original intent of this thread).

Sorry, Timnot4me...we'll leave the "bombing" of ideological differences to "Christians". We aren't the malevolent, violent people that you are.
We'de be happy enough if you just left us and the rest of the world alone.

And have a lovely day.
Dropinin , 23.06.2005, 3:46am link
wow. alot of good stuff has been flying around since i left. i think for one thing, i like wild liberal. he reminds me of a kid at school. very smart, and doesn't miss a beat.

and just by saying "Jezus is my savior" you will not suddenly become straight. to change that suddenly has the likely hood of the KKK and black panthers having a picnic together peacefully. not gonna happen. actually,. we have a lesbian pastor at one of the churches in my town. very awesome.

and i couldn't help but to notice that with these religous hatred laws, alot of bible-thumpers (hard core chrisitans) blame the atheists and jews for it. tjhey say that we are so aggresive and cruel that the only way to legally persecute us is to create some bullshit law (i feel it limits my free speech, ok?) to try and land our ass in jail when we say "i don't beleive in your god. he demeans women" already ahda similar incident here. no one got in trouble though. i am sorry to say, taht most bible thumpers ( not all christians are bad! i' jsut saying the ones that take their supposedly loving religion too far) are the ones who caused the crusades, the inquisition (goes to show you how loving they can be) which caused tens of thousands of needless deaths becuase someone wondered if his crops failed becuase of a old hag who lived on the outskirts of town, and of course, the salem witch trials. the girls fun went to far and they couldn't stop it. and also, from christianity, we got Hitler, the KKK, Nazis (old and neo) black panthers, and racial, religous, and homophobia crimes becuase someone loser thinks god made them better. i fail to see how a christian bible thumper could say that someone like a buhddist could go to hell for being different. buddhists, never once were the cuase to any wars, any hate crimes, nothing (as a whole. with all religions, you have different ideas)yet some say they're going toh ell becuase they, like wiccans, are "aggresive" and "Cruel" and "unnatural" and therefore will go to hell, provided by a god who has commited mass homicides and genocides, who when being suuposedly omnipitent, could've prevented it.

(holy crap i wrote alot!) but basically, just to emphasize this, THIS IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION. itmay ahve been founded off the only things in the bible taht mattered, but of the singers of the constitution, only three were christian, the rest were diests, theists, and atheists.

Kelly, i feel sorry for you and the horrifying christian door-parasites, so i'll tell you one of my friends dads tactics for door parasites. when he knows jehova's witnesses are onthe streets, he strips to his dirtiest pair of underwear, turns on the foot ball cahnnel REALLY loud, lights a cigar (doesn't smoke :) and when they come ot his door, the first thing they said was "WE CAN HELP YOU!!!" beaming faces, bibles in their hands (with dents from thumping of course) and he says "no you can't" made me crack when i saw it.

and maybe (just a maybe) when i explained to e_d he'd make better use of his time not yellinga t us, he calmed down a buit. thank you for no longer yelling. drove me nuts! :)

raise your hand if you think you or anyone here is truly deserving of eternal paradise or hell! (looks around)
CJ , 23.06.2005, 4:37am link
oops! did i say "singers" of the constitution? my bad. i meant signers!
CJ , 23.06.2005, 4:39am link
oh, and e_d, i have lost more in my life then i think you can know. my grandfather got out of bed one day and fell back down dead froma heart attack. he was a good man who served in the navy. and then came my uncle, who slipped in the shower, cracked a rib, punctered a lung, and died. next, my cousin killed someones mother in car accident (the other driver didn't know the light was red) in a truck full of children.

i'm entitled to ahve blown afew mental circuits. but then again, iwas considdered very crazy at my schools. but wtf, i had fun (not from the deaths, at school i mean)and the best part is: i was ten when it all happened. didn't help ym hasmter died when i got back. i was still basically a lutheran, but that helped a good deal in destroying my faith in this "god" person, along with the demorlizing bible passages and science. the deaths just made me say "to hlel with church" and after taht, i basically didn't give a dman about religion until i saw my friends get beaten for being wiccan by more bible thumpers (we have alot in town ):) that's when i started seeing the ugly price for "eternal salvation" not worth it.that's my lifes story. fin.
CJ , 23.06.2005, 4:46am link
Timnot4me:"get lost you dunce!! Your a disgrace to US. SO what do you want to do? Bomb christians?
Your the biggest idiot on this board."

What the hell are you? Intellectually challenged? Informationally deprived? Impervious to brain damage? Or a combination of all three? And what the hell are you interested in doing bombing innocent men, women, and kids, in other countries like that fuckin warmongering SOB at 1600 Penn. Ave.? Asswipes like you and him are the best at all you do, and all you do is make people hate you.

The real idiot is you for your silly ass belief that God exists.

Reminds me of the Oriental despot of yore -- except this one's a lot bigger -- and invisible, to boot.

For the sake of argument, let's assume, for a moment, that such a Creature exists: If He is so hot-to-trot for me to become aware of this "fact," then why does he do such a bang-up job at hiding?

"All'ee all'ee outs in free! C'mon, kid! Game's over! It's time to wash up and get ready for dinner! Hey! Do you hear me!? C'm out, c'm out wherever y'are!"

You damn Bible thumpers want us to believe that the Bible is a bulwark of morality that will save ourselves and our country from certain destruction. The Bible itself shows otherwise, but people think the Bible is good simply because they never read it.

Execute stubborn kids:
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son ... Then shall his father and his mother ... bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.
-- Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Kids killed for mocking hero:
Some small boys came out of the city and jeered at [the prophet Elisha], saying, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" And ... he cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys.
-- II Kings 2:23-24

Slavery Endorsed
... all who are under the yoke of slavery ... who have believing masters ... must serve all the better since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. If any one teaches otherwise ... he is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy..., which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among men who are depraved in mind...
-- I Timothy 6:1-5

Woman must marry rapist:
If a man [meets] a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her ... He must marry the girl ... He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
-- Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Virgin women are war booty:
"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he [Moses] asked them.... "Now ... kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
-- Numbers 31:1-18

Now if you want to believe bullshit like this, and if you choose to follow blindly and believe that God exist then you go right ahead. But remember you are the the true idiot for doing so not those of us who don't.
WildLiberal [Email], 23.06.2005, 1:23pm link
Sorry I'm late, "ETERNAL DAMANTION" I believe I may be able to help you and you... creationist "scientists". I'm a zoology student , and to say I know a little about evolution, would be a considerable understatement. For your benefit I'll keep it simple, see here;

I really wish you people would stop trying to twist and ignore scientific evidence just to fit in with your disillusioned reality. It's intellectually dishonest, and to cal your selves scientists is a joke.
Miles [Home], 23.06.2005, 1:31pm link
In a scientific context, legitimate scientists do not take the creationists or their claims seriously. Creationists have no data of their own to prove their assertions. In matters relevant to the origin and nature of life on Earth, they pursue no pertinent research worthy of the name. They studiously overlook the more telling modern scientific literature, except to extract out-of-context quotes. Their scholarly publication record is nonexistent. With all their talk about "scientific creationism," the creationists have produced no documentation in the scientific literature. No empirical, experimental, or theoretical evidence for "scientific creation" has been published in peer-reviewed science journals, the traditional method whereby scientists communicate the results of their research.

E. C. Scott and H. P. Cole surveyed 68 likely journals for creationist manuscripts. Out of 135,000 submissions from 1980 to 1983, only 18 (0.01 percent) dealt with scientific support for creationism. Of these 18 articles, 12 were submitted to one science education journal (not the appropriate place for genuinely new findings). Fifteen of the manuscripts were rejected on grounds of poor scholarship. Three were still under review during the survey. (Dr. Scott has informed me that the remaining three manuscripts were subsequently rejected.)

Biologists do not derive any special benefits from espousing evolution, and they do not set out to undermine anyone's faith in a supreme being. They are simply seeking to understand how the universe operates. Science is highly competitive; open to challenge, science is also self-correcting. Any biologist who could disprove evolution would instantly become famous, possibly a Nobel laureate, and probably very wealthy. The fact that biology has been so spectacularly successful in describing and explaining the structure, processes, and diversity of the living world points to the validity. For example, such new techniques as tissue typing for organ transplants, the cloning of commercially valuable organisms, and genetic engineering whereby a gene for a human product such as insulin in inserted into bacteria are direct descendants of evolution. The increase in production from livestock and crops is based upon principles of selection. The kinship of humans and other animals is inferred from the fact that the drugs are routinely tested in our mammalian relations before use on us. The rise of organisms resistant to pesticides is an example of evolution in action.

Evolution makes sense to the commonplace observation that organisms appear to be related, the more primitive groups show up in the fossil record before the more derived ones, that transitional fossils are difficult to classify, that mammalian embryos, including our own children, pass through a stage when they are equipped with the pharyngeal gill pouches of the lower vertebrates, that the limbs of all four-footed animals are built on the same plan, that vestigial organs exist in many animals including humans, that many essential biochemical pathways are common to all life, the essential unity of which is evident from the near-universal presence of DNA as the genetic coding molecule. The explanatory power of the theory of evolution led geneticist Theodosius Dobzhansky to remark, "Nothing in biology makes sense except in light of evolution."

Creationists have deified their interpretation of a book, and they expect all to worship at their alter. They would have us substitute blind faith for reason. Because they insist on a literal interpretation of that book they are forced to discard all of modern biology and a good deal of physics and astronomy. Creationists insist on a young Earth, but if there is anything science knows, it is the great antiquity of the Earth and the solar system. This has been verified by at least five independent radioisotope clocks. In thousands of tests, rocks dated by three or more independent clocks yielded ages in good agreement. These dating procedures are based on the same theories as are nuclear reactors and bombs. There is no doubt that the reactors react and the bombs explode. The data from astrophysics establish distances and time scales consistent with the data from evolving stars. Light traveling at 186,000 miles per second takes 100,000 years simply to cross our own galaxy. The decomposition of organic matter to petroleum in known to require millions of years. The movement of continental plates, which results in the formation of oceans and mountains, requires millions of years. Life has been evolving for billions of years.

In light of the track record of scientific accomplishments, it is astonishing that the fundamentalists would assume that the world's biologists, geologists, physicists, and astronomers are all wrong. They must think a devious creator is playing games with us by providing sequential and transitional fossils in rocks that can be dated. They must think that God is testing us by making it only appear that the older rocks are at the bottom and younger rocks are at the top of a stratigraphic column. If the Earth is only a few thousand years old, a devious god must have created the light that is already on its way to Earth from sources millions of light-years away. And as J. B. S. Haldane pointed out, God must have an inordinate fondness for beetles to have created over 250,000 different species.

Why would a creator make 2,000 species of fruit flies and put one-fourth of them only in the Hawaiian Islands? Were Adam and Eve created with all of man's parasites, including syphilis, herpes, and AIDS, already in place? Surely these things are much more rationally explained by evolution. Creationism has no explanatory powers, no application for future investigation, no way to advance knowledge, no way to lead to new discoveries. As far as science is concerned, creationism is a sterile concept.

The reason fundamentalists have such a deep hatred and fear of evolution is twofold. First, they mistakenly assume that science is inherently antireligious, that it is out to undermine their religious beliefs. Science is not attempting any such thing. It is saying that such religious beliefs cannot be considered as science, and that, when religious beliefs conflict with what science knows, it is not rational to assume that the science is wrong. Insisting on a literal interpretation of the Bible is a decision fundamentalists have made, not one that was thrust upon them, and a literal interpretation is one that most Christian and Jewish sects happily do without. (In recent times, Christian fundamentalism has been a particularly American movement; nowhere in Western Europe, in fact, has creationism been an issue.)

Second, most fundamentalists identify with an ultraconservative political movement. They long for the return of a more moral America, an America that may never have been. All around them they see what they perceive as declining morality and spirituality, as evidenced by pornography, crime, drug abuse, abortion, feminism, Atheism, liberalism, and all sorts of other threatening isms. They reason that if humans share ancestry with the other animals, we have no reason to behave as anything other than animals. This view neglects the fact that humans are the only known animals with the ability to contemplate the consequences of their own actions. It also fails to recognize that there is a great deal of good in the world, the nightly news notwithstanding. Crime existed long before the Bible, and biologists do not like crime any more than the creationists do. Evolutionary theory is not a license to run amok, and neither is the literal interpretation of the Bible a guarantor of moral behavior.
WildLiberal [Email], 23.06.2005, 4:07pm link
How will all of this end? I suspect there will be an evolutionary ending. As future generations acquire more knowledge through education, simplistic answers based on belief will become increasingly unsatisfying. Those religions that cannot reconcile their beliefs with advancing scientific knowledge and common sense will lose followers to the more flexible, less dogmatic religions. Religions, after all, are themselves subject to evolution. The religions that are unable to adapt will leave no offspring, so to speak, and eventually will become extinct.
WildLiberal [Email], 23.06.2005, 5:11pm link
holy crap, wild liberal wrote alot. you kinda lost me, but it makes sense. then again, it's been a late night and a busy morning, so i didn't want to read it all :)

wondering when the next thread will be, CJ
CJ , 23.06.2005, 9:39pm link
oh, and WL (wild liberal) you forgot selling your daughters as sex slaves and "it's ok to beat your children to unconsciousness"
not to mention, in leviticous, owmen are "unclean" for having their period and giving birth, especially if it's a girl.

Does anyone here considder themselves or their wives unclean if they/you gave birth to your children?
CJ , 23.06.2005, 9:42pm link
"We have no acceptable theory of evolution at the present time. There is none; and I cannot accept the theory that I teach to my students each year. Let me explain:
I teach the synthetic theory known as the neo-Darwinian one, for one reason only; not because it's good, we know it is bad, but because there isn't any other.
Whilst waiting to find something better you are taught something which is known to be inexact, which is a first approximation."


ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 23.06.2005, 11:40pm link
Evolution: Inexact (but evolving).

Christianity (and religion): complete and utter bullshit.

I will take inexact science over bullshit ANY DAY.

Screw god and jesus-farce.

There is no god.

Sierra [Email], 24.06.2005, 12:05am link
Hey E_D. Can you please provide us with a tape of Professor Jerome Lejeune's speech of 1985 so that we can actually verify whether or not he said this? Or are you going to take the word of some guy in Monaco that he actually said it (when no one else seems to remember this ever having come from the Professor's mouth, nor, with his "oops" attitude on conception does it even sound like him).

The Answers in Genesis website is well known for misreporting, misquoting, and generally sloppy work. Boy, I could tell you some major flub ups that they did reporting about the possibility of fossilized haem being found in a T-Rex's thigh bone. Ha ha! They actually claimed that Kansas Scientists injected this fossilized haem into a rat! Tell me, how does one get a rock in through an injection needle?

Of course, if you want me to, I can E-mail his (Professor Lejeune's) foundation. They have copies of all of his speeches, writings, and his diary. I can ask them to send me the March 1985 speech.
Dropinin , 24.06.2005, 1:11am link
If evolution is bullshit, how exactly would you explain extinction?

May I suggest you read "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins, and perhaps any basic biology text book you can get your hands on.

Then again, if you don't want to believe in evolution, why should we care, it's your loss zealot.
Miles [Home], 24.06.2005, 1:47am link
Another favorite quote that the creationists of Professor Jerome J. LeJeune is also unverifiable. Answers in Genesis did try erase that page, but Yahoo! still lists it in their search engine. The reason why they want THAT quote to go is because Professor likened the teaching of evolution to the teaching of how a human egg differentiates itself into many other specialized other words, we don't know why, we just know it happens. That is, if that quote can be verifiable, like Dropinin is asking for.

If Professor LeJeune was a creationist, then there would have been no reason for him to try and discover the gene that causes Down Syndrome or other childhood diseases in an attempt to eradicate it. He would simply say, "God's will" or "Its because we are sinners" and suggest people pray it away, just like Dr. W. David Hager suggests to his gynocology patients.
xiomburg , 24.06.2005, 2:11am link
e_d, all you are listing are other peoples opinions which means nothing. anyone can say "evolution is bullshit" or "god is bullshit" but that isn't going ot change what everyone knows. evolution has proof,fact, and reason to back it up, god has a man nailed to a bed post.

if you want us to considder what you say when you tell "evolution is dead" please list the evidence that your jesus home-boy was telling the truth, holy crap man we've been saying this since the beginning here that you ahve no proof that everything said in the bible is true.

a little slow on the uptake are we?
CJ , 24.06.2005, 2:24am link
Hey CJ, did you ever read the book by Lee Stroebel, the case for christ?
There is strong evidence that Jesus was resurected from the dead. It happened my friend.

Now if you want to believe in the make believe common ancestor that evolution proposes, then by all means do so.
Evolution is useless, and baseless fiction.

I challenge you to read the book by Lee Stroebel.

I respect the scholars that study the bible and understand the hebrew and greek.

CJ, you offer nothing, and have nothing much to say.

Evolution is not a fact. Ask any biologist.

You just can't take it that the bible is true.
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 24.06.2005, 4:10am link
Ok Sierra,
show the me the proof there is a common ancestor.
Prove it!!! Prove it!!!
I want a rigorous proof with no doubt that there is a common ancestor.

Come on, you evolutionist idiots, show me the proof.

ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 24.06.2005, 4:12am link

ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 24.06.2005, 4:13am link
Alright E_D, but I will use the same rigorous proof you religous nuts use.


Thats all the proof I need.

I guess that pretty much closes the door on that discussion.

There is no god.

Sierra [Email], 24.06.2005, 5:21am link

ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 24.06.2005, 5:37am link
What do you mean? Its proved. I quoted "the book". Its infallable.

How can you dispute that?

My book says your book is BULLSHIT.

Mine is infallable. Yours talks about scientific impossibilities and other silly absurdities.

I'm going with mine.

There is no god.

Sierra [Email], 24.06.2005, 6:47am link
The only basis of your "theory" is this one book, the bible, whose origins are unclear. The damn book was written in so many different languages it's full of mistranslations! Like the virgin birth? Mistranslation, the word “virgin” simply means “young girl” in classical Greek.

I am a biologist, you can ask me and I'd tell you evolution is not fact, but it's the closest thing to fact we have. The thing about science e_d is that it changes; the theory of evolution could be updated tomorrow. Unlike your dogmatic bible.

If genesis is correct, and all life was created in a week, how do you explain the dinosaurs? And the Grey Wolf? Which appeared around the stone age. We keep proving you wrong but you keep coming, such is the benefit of religious blinkers.

Also, stop quoting professors, anyone can become a professor, it doesn’t automatically make you a genius.
Miles [Home], 24.06.2005, 1:17pm link
Evolution, like its name is not so much a fact but a journey of understanding. Its is changable and grows and changes as new information is uncovered.

Missing link? Who knows. Perhaps there is none. Perhaps beings from a UFO mated with apes. If that were true the evidence could be folded neatly into science and then the scientists could begin developing and testing new theorys.

Religion is cold and dead. It knows all the answers and is unchangable.

Religions is bullshit.

There is no god.

Sierra [Email], 24.06.2005, 3:55pm link
don't want to be seen to be taking sides here with the evolution/creativism arguement, but i'm reading Dan Brown's book "Angels and Demons" at the moment, and an interesting theory is in it which suggests that the "big bang" was created by a higher being, i.e. god. Although i find it hard to believe that God created the universe in six days, and the big bang theory has been scientifically proven, i thought the theory in the book was quite intersting.
uk girl , 24.06.2005, 3:58pm link
and sierras comment "Perhaps beings from a UFO mated with apes" has always been more plausable for me, so i actually agree with you for a change. However religion will always be around as it helps people fill in the blanks of the universes history, i don't think religion will ever go away. I knew i should have studied theology rather than psychology!!!
uk girl , 24.06.2005, 4:01pm link
three illusions of humans toward God, 1 God has needs 2 God has expectations 3 God is jealous. This is the driving force behind Religion!! How can God ( who is all in all) everything that exists have needs? This would mean that there is something that God is not which is impossible!! The grand Imagining!!
MAD MONK , 24.06.2005, 4:06pm link
Eternal Damnation!! another Illusion, If God is everything, is WHO IS BEING CONDEMNED?
MAD MONK , 24.06.2005, 4:10pm link
Also you so-called christians, I must say are the best arguement against Gods existance. You can't even see the illusions for what they are and thus you are trapped in the illusion. didn't Jesus say you are in the world but not of it! Humans created these Illusions!!
MAD MONK , 24.06.2005, 4:17pm link
The Universe is recreating itself at every moment, just as we are!! this is what is called Godding, and this is what makes God and all of us Eternal!! ever changing in its parts but consistantly the same as a whole!!
MAD MONK , 24.06.2005, 4:38pm link
evolution is a theory with more evidence then creationism to support it. note it is called the "theory of evolution" not the law of evolution. evolution is a theory with evidence to support it, like galileo's earth orbits the sun theory, which we now know to be true. there is no deying the facts of galileo, which started as a theory. it's justmatter of time.

the only thing evolution really can go aganist is creationism, which is filled with flaws and loopholes as well as bullshit.

if the bible is right, go beat your children senselss e_d. god commands you.

i'm heading to the book store today as well. at least, enar the books otre, i'm going to best buys. need a new CD.

please read miles post, any one can say anything, but without anything to back it up, it's about as significant as the gum on my shoe (EW!)

for a guy/gal who doesn't beleive in evolution and claims to beleive in creationism and spews "proof" left and right, list your evidence taht the world is 6000 years old, women are inferior, and that children who are beaten will not suffer harm, mentaly or physically.

how can you e_d, support an unloving hateful homicidal maniac called god and his hencheman jesus? he's killed millions of people, and thanks to his followers, we got Hitler, the KKK, NAzi's etc. all this god has to offer is hatred and predjudice.

as i've said before, i will not worship a WOMEN-HATING, CHILD-BEATING, LYING EMOTIONALLY-CONTROLLED POWER-HUNGRY EGO FREAK. tell me e_d, when you were five, did you worship and bow before the bullies in your town? god is a larger bully of the imagination. it's fake,a nd eventually no one will need it.

christianity started off rather good, but has only fucked up the world. would be years ahea of our time if it weren't for the needless wars in the anme of god.

killing people int he name of god is a faily good definition of insanity, isn't it?
CJ , 25.06.2005, 2:31am link
yo dude how dare you say some thing like that about my God man all i am going to say to you right now is man that if you dont change your ways that when u die you are going to the bottomless pits of HELL


God Bless you
joe [Email], 03.09.2005, 10:52pm link
If the bible is right go beat you children .... that is what is needed in this country full of people far apart of the real God of God's .
Geraldo [Email], 04.09.2005, 5:32am link - Comments from archived blog posts