Comments on Tying up loose ends

yay! i get to be the first to post! wheeee!

totally off topic, but WTF. who here heard the bullshit president bush is spewing about teaching "intelligent" design as fairly as evolution. firs of all, intelligent design seems to always requre a "perfect" or "ultimate" intelligence. intelligent design has no proof to back it up, but many things to discredit it and such.

one of the things me and my friends came up with was "if the entity was of supreme intelligence, why do teenagers produce excessive oils to create zits, thus causing infection and scarring the skin? surely the intelligent dude could've done something else instead of scarring us.

intelligent design is so funny, gonna have fun in biology this year...
Shaggy , 05.08.2005, 4:44am link
Sorry I have been away. Went to Disneyland. Actually, there is just as much evidence to support the existence of a large mouse with special powers as there is fod "god". Apparently people believe in equal numbers.

Intelligent design is not possible. The simple answer is that the universe in general and human earth in particular could no possibly have been as poorly designed as it apparently was.

Some "god".

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 05.08.2005, 6:12am link
If Atheism is a belief then I want out! What I like about Atheism is that I don't have to have a belief.

As for the 'intelligent design' idea being taught in schools, if they do that they will be opening Pandora's box, as I expect that the Christian Right will not always be in power. We will have every nut-job religious belief in all our text-books. Then it will be the Atheists who will be home-schooling their kids. MaryJary
MaryJary , 05.08.2005, 12:34pm link
By the way, it should be called the Christian Reicht, yes?
MaryJary , 05.08.2005, 12:37pm link
I'm an atheist homechooling parent, partly because of religious teachings in schools.

"Christian Reicht" is probably an accurate term, although as I've said before, Jesus was a socialist!
Tim [Home], 05.08.2005, 12:51pm link
Yes, the burden is not on atheists to prove the existence of God, but nonetheless the existence of God as normally conceived can be disproved. There is a lot of interest in the Argument from (Reasonable) Non-belief (lots of good stuff on the Secular Web about this), which is at least as old as Shelley's The Necessity of Atheism: "If the knowledge of a God is the most necessary, why is it not the most evident and the clearest?" And as for the Argument from Human Suffering, I remember Terry Waite writing a page in the Daily Mail after last year's Boxing Day Tsunami, achingly sincere and earnest, but the conclusion was, he simply hadn't a clue how a good and powerful god could allow such things. Nor me, Terry.
DrDave , 05.08.2005, 5:13pm link
ya, i'm going to hate it if they begin teaching me rleigous lies in my science class. we already have a substitute teacher who frequently fiklls in for our biology teacher, and everytime he spews creationist crap. very annoying, and my friends have already tried and succeded in irritating the hell out of him :D always tries to avoid our questions...

sierra, when did you go to disneyland? i was there last weekend.
Shaggy , 05.08.2005, 7:16pm link
"I'm an atheist homechooling parent, partly because of religious teachings in schools."

On this side of the pond? I think you'll find the religious education here manages to turn out rather more atheists than believers. Kid's, bless 'em, usually manage to
go their own way, sometimes much to their parents chagrin.

My three have all gone or are going through state schools and have come out healthily agnostic. And they've got a Jehovah's Witness grandma and a former JW mother who still holds to some of the teaching.

You never know, your own progeny may turn out to be god botherers despite all your best efforts.
john durkin [Email][Home], 06.08.2005, 12:37am link
OMG I must apologise for the grocer's apostrophe there.
john durkin [Email][Home], 06.08.2005, 12:50am link
There are a number of reasons why (I believe) homeschooling is worthwhile - avoiding the teaching of religion as if it is fact (possible exaggeration there, but it is at least given a respect is does not deserve) is only one such reason.

A few years ago my eldest (now nearly 8) laughed hysterically when I said that many people believe that the world was created in six days by a magical being who lives in the sky - and she immediately saw the flaws in the Noah's ark story.

Not having been exposed to religion from an early age she's better able to think for herself compared to most other kids.
Tim [Home], 06.08.2005, 1:04am link
I believe that some religious education should be taught is schools so that people are not ignorant of others beliefs, i do not think that this should be confined to christian beliefs, all major religions should be covered.

I do not think that christian (or other religious) views of the world should be taught, as these are all perversions of facts which can be very dangerous to young minds.
Dodge , 06.08.2005, 2:27pm link
Frankly, I no longer believe in the school system. It's antiquated, outdated, and the bulk of the schools built are falling apart. Way to much money is required to keep this system under repair. Throw it out and spend the money on a newer and more efficient educational system. So many better ways to teach than what we have now.

Teaching religion in schools? Of course it needs to be taught - but not as a belief system, simply as a bit of history. Just like we teach communism and democracy, Vikings and greek gods, or Indians and aztecks.

The biggest enemy of religion is knowledge.
Rick [Email], 09.08.2005, 2:16am link
I went to a Catholic school for the first two years of my education. Don't remember much, except for getting in trouble for talking during the prayer and someone telling on me for not believing in God. In fact, it was probably a teacher I had who was an expletive deleted that turned me so much against religion (specifically, Catholicism). We would hear stories about Jesus as if they were fact, and any attempt to contradict the teacher would probably mean being told on by a fellow arsehole. Er, I mean pupil. The school I attend now is Christian, though our biology departments have rarely, if ever, touched on the possibilty of creationism being a plausible alernative to evolution. Thank God. Anyway, I'm rambling, so I'm tired.
Latin_lover [Email], 09.08.2005, 11:29pm link
yah, two of my friends went to a catholic school. very scary, they'd get busted by the nuns 24/7. we have a nun hatchery (i call it) across my school, and the architecture of the main building in ym shcool makes me think the school stole the bell tower. but basically, it's fun watching the nuns go to a fro. me and my wiccan friend would jsut stand there. watching. they probably know him, being the only wiccan in 5 block radius.

hmm...i appear to have gotten off topic...i and i will continue...my friend (the aforementioned) sent me this comic called "oh my gods"

two pagans are at their favorite diner when one of them buys a "pope in a box"
Pagan1:whats a pope in-a-box?
pagan2:it's a happymeal with a mini-pope inside. you tell it your sins, and it tells you your clemency. watch: i ate meat on friday.

pope i-a-box: say hail mary three times and get circumcized.

not the funniest, but still...

wow...i'm bored...still waiting for the brazil exchange student to get here. i get to tell hima ll about our "wonderful" presidnet *EVIL grin*
Shaggy , 10.08.2005, 6:24am link
Don't let DOGMA cloud your judgement!!!! Will you take truth or comfort?...www.conspiracyarchive.com
phatcat , 10.08.2005, 6:17pm link
Hmmmm... I don't see the problem of atheism being considered a belief. After all it is something that I believe is the truth. I can not prove beyond all possibility and so some amount of faith must be put in my considered rational that there is no god. It being a belief does not make it any less valid, at least in my opinion. Why do you object so vehemently to the suggestion?

As for religion taught in schools I point you to one very poignant fact that explains why teaching religion in school is so important. In the UK it is taught and Religion is in a massive downward spiral. churches are empty, atheism abounds and the xtian Reich doesn’t exist…. In the US teaching religion is expressly forbidden, xtianity is rampant, atheists are looked on as disabled, churches are packed to the rafters on Wednesdays as well as Sundays, and the xtian Reich is in power.

Coincidence?

When they only person teaching the kids about religion is standing in the pulpit on Sunday it is little wonder that they turn out the way they do. The sooner Religion is taught in school the better, even creationism, because kids are not stupid and once they start to learn then the first nail of religion’s coffin is firmly driven home.
redfred , 10.08.2005, 7:34pm link
I myself am an atheist as are most everyone here. Come september I will be a junior in high school. I think what bush has been blathering on about creationism being taught in school is complete bullshit. For one, it is against the law for religion to be taught in public schools as fact. The part that is even worse is that he wants it to be taught in science class. Religion is not a science and it cant be taught as such. If creationism were to be required curriculum it would have to be taught in a theology class which would have to be required curriculum as well and that simply wont happen.
AngusJoe [Email], 10.08.2005, 10:48pm link
he's not shoving creationism down our schools throats, he's shoving it's trojan horse of lies "intelligemt design." i still can't wait for the crationist biology substitute :) i'm so mean.
Shaggy , 11.08.2005, 12:06am link
Intellectually bankrupt. That's the best way to describe anyone, layman or scientist, who can entertain the absurdity of "intelligent design" even for a few seconds.

And...of course most reasonably intelligent folks know that the burden of proof is on any individual(s) who asserts that something IS the case. Prove to me that there is not an invisible green monkey sitting on your shoulder controlling all of your thoughts. Can't do it. It's invisible, after all. And yet I know it's green because I read it in a book somewhere, inspired by "god."

Would the "intelligent design" folks feel gratified if students examined their "evidence" and concluded that intelligent design is likely, and that there must have been a committee of gods and goddesses who designed and built the universe? How can anyone prove that the "designer" was one entity, and not several, or dozens? They can't. Or that the "designer" was not an alient scientist with tentacles and 50 eyeballs? They can't.

I pity these people, and yet I have also grown to despise them. They are pitiful when they hunker together in their churches to appease their mythical deity. They are dangerous when they attempt to force their idiotic beliefs upon our education system.

----shade
shade51 [Email], 11.08.2005, 1:51am link
Its like in the US....a lot of these nuts want prayer in the schools, but they are real particular about whose prayer they want.

Just wait until Johnny tries to start the football game with an invocation to satan and watch the sparks fly!!!

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 11.08.2005, 7:52am link
That reminds me of my younger days when I heard my parents chatting religion with someone. They'd mentioned "God created everything and all things are great under God". When i pointed out this would include Satan things got ugly, heh.

My biggest argument is that if there were a God and he were all knowing then he already knows every decision and action that we all will take thus removing any possibility of choice and free-will. As a result no one can be held accountable for their actions and the sins of man fall upon the feet of this god. So much for sin eh?
Rick [Email], 11.08.2005, 8:30am link
ya, gene roddenbery (dude who made star trek) said "i simply question the story logic of an all powerful all knowing god who creates faulty humans, then blames them for HIS mistakes

that's a simplified version of aome atheists.

i just wonder how prepared the right wing bible nuts are for the non-religous kids to get angry...wish i had a camera...
Shaggy , 11.08.2005, 11:07pm link
wow, i can't beleive how quiet it's become. we need another random creationist to waltz in here for amusement or something.
Shaggy , 15.08.2005, 10:04pm link
HAH! belief is for the weak minded, if you cant accept the harsh realities of life then go hide behind your book or whatever absurd supernatural force you think is out there, its basically comfort zone for a coward aka PUSSY! There is no paradise, no heaven, no hell, just a nice spot in the ground where your corpse will decompose (yes that word is decompose, i learned that in biology!) and be forgottan forever. Science will one day prove all this religious bullshit wrong, no telling when it will happen especially if these crazy religious fucks keep brainwashing people and constantly fighting. Have fun and live life as it goes, GET DRUNK, FUCK GIRLS, GET OLD, AND DIE! FUCKING LIKE IT!!!!!!!THATS LIFE AND Life rocks and it will forever rock but if these stupid religious people keep trying to take control and fuck shit up it will not rock anymore and thats not cool,TAKE ADVANTAGE AND GRAB LIFE BY THE BALLS! YOU HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE YOUR OWN DESCIONS AND HAVE FUN, DONT BE A DUMB FUCK AND LIMIT YOURSELF, I AM 20 AND I HOPE I DIE BEFORE RELIGIOUS BASTARDS DESTORY THE WORLD WITH THEIR STUPIDITY...LOOK AT HISTORY...Q:why did the city of TROY fall? A:BECAUSE DUMB RELGIOUS ASSHOLES THOUGHT THE TROJEN HORSE WAS A GIFT FROM THE SUN GOD AND THEY ALL DIED HAHAH WHAT IDIOTS!~ so in conclusion all religious dumb-asses please pray to your none-exsistant god and have him make you another earth fo ya....i am sure he could cause he is a fast worker! so now all of you could go there and fuck it up with eachother...they should acutally make that a TV show called EARTH2....we ALLLLL LOVE TO WATCH VIOLENCE so what better then whatchin a bunch of morons running around killing eachother thinkin their god is cooler....its kinda like when i was younger arguing with my bro that my ninja turtle could kick his ninja turtles ass!

DOWN LOAD THIS SONG Nothingface- Here Come The Butchers

lyrics at www.darklyrics.com
ENJOY FREAKS!
P.S. TIM YOU FRIGGIN RULE
CRAZYKID , 16.08.2005, 11:21am link
i dunno, i prefer Rock friends and food for my life style ^_^
Shaggy , 17.08.2005, 3:07am link
hehe, i totally agree, i prefer a lot of stuff, those three are definitely there, just gotta live life to the fullest and have fun while doing so
CRAZYKID , 17.08.2005, 9:31am link
man, this site is starting to slow down considerably. we need like another crazy creationist or something :|
Shaggy , 17.08.2005, 10:58pm link
TOTALLY, i love reading how weak some peoples mind are, some people just dont understand how to think outside the box and ask questions...they are just taught one way and that way is the way things go, a nice single minded road. I WANNA LAUGH AT SOMETHING NEW NOW!!! some crazy creationist please post, i wanna be immused by your stupidity :) me and shaggy are gettin bored!
CRAZYKID , 18.08.2005, 7:22am link
love this site! religion is bullshit, especially the vile crap known as xianity!

i am ashamed to say it took 31 years of my life to get out...fuck my parents and their stupid jesus fetish. i hate xianity more than anything in this life. it's stupid, bullying, evil, mean, and degrading. and my parents rammed that stupid shit down my throat. i say to those "creationists"...

BRING IT ON!
Pat [Email][Home], 18.08.2005, 7:16pm link
Dude, at least you saved yourself. THink of all the people who die believing that shit.

It makes you wonder....as their brain shuts down...is there a moment when they realize that "hey....where is heaven"...."there is nothing here...."

I hope so. I would like each christian to spend their last moment knowing they wasted their life on a lie.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 19.08.2005, 12:40am link
i prefer to think of the people who died BECAUSE of that shit.

i am very close friends wth a girl who i think may be questioning her churches authority. awesome if you ask me.

oh yeah, we need another E_d. so bored, school in 5 days (roughly)
Shaggy , 19.08.2005, 2:08am link
You know the saddest thing about religion is that it deprives people of the wonder of the situation we find ourselves in. We are floating out here in the middle of nowhere on a planet that is easily a one in a billion. The physical requirements for complexed evolving life, A star just the right size, an orbit the just the right distance from that star, a large moon to stabilize the climate, a molton core, just the right elements, etc., make our planet a wonder to behold. I ride my bike through a forrest a couple of times a week and I am filled with awe and joy that it happened at all.
We are drifting alone in a vast sea of space and time. It would take ten years of space travel to get to Pluto, and then we'd only be 1/50,000th of the way to the edge of our solar sysytem. Who knows where the next planet like ours is and when, if ever intellegent life will spring up on it? In a way science fiction does us a great dis-service. We're not going anywhere and no one is coming.
And why can't we just take responsibility for what goes on here and make this rock a paradise? Because morons insist on worshiping a god that doesn't exsist and putting all the credit/balme on his/her/their shoulders. What a pity.
People who know how I feel about this ask if it isn't depressing knowing that when it's all over no one will ever know we were here. (I hate to ruin the ending for anyone but we don't make it. Planets and stars don't last and complexed species don't last. Sooner or later a huge chunk of space junk slams into us and the system resets, sorry) My answer is No, we share this fate with any life form that ever evolved or will evolve. In that way we are in fact connected, we don't know the place and time they existed but we can still feel this bond. We were. What could be more beautiful than that? what more can we ask?
Todd Hemphill [Email], 20.08.2005, 1:11pm link
i know what you mean. reminds me of a thing from hitch hikers guide to the galaxy, where they had some sort of torture device that makes you realize how insignificant you are. a great white screen is the universe, and a miscroscpoe is looking in another microscope, which is staring at a microscopic dot the reads "yo are here"

I also like the website digitalblasphemy.com. great art site, loads of planetary stuff.
Shaggy , 20.08.2005, 7:49pm link
I just found this site on google and I thought I'd leave a comment.

Todd Hemphill, there are a few things in your comment that are not true. 1st - Life doesn't have to exist only on planets exactly like ours. Life could exist on ANY planet. It's called adaptation. 2nd - I really don't think that "no one is coming." even though I have no evidence and I don't want to argue.

"Tim," you know how you said that the existence of a creator is impossible? Well the existence of the universe is impossible as well. It could be created only by something outside it and that thing could be created only by something outside. You see the pattern? The existence of planets is impossible. The existence of life is impossible. The existence of anything is impossible if that theory is right.
Viktor Stanchev [Email], 21.08.2005, 6:56am link
Atheism isnt a belief... its a reasonable assumption based on solid evidence. Seriously, every time a pissant theist says this, I want to punch him in the crotch and hang him with a pianowire. Call me intolerant, but at least in not a fucking idiot.
Rich [Email], 21.08.2005, 1:22pm link
...though my spelling could use an upgrade
Rich [Email], 21.08.2005, 1:24pm link
Where in my comments do I say "Life only exists on planets exactly like ours"? My point was that any ADVANCED form of life is going to evolve and that takes time. There may be life in the form of microbs on lots of planets and moons, maybe even here in our own solar system, but for life to evolve to the point it has here, no matter what strange and different forms it takes, requires certain parameters and long term stability that are the exception in the cosmos, not the rule. Afterall, it took three and a half billion years for it to develop on one chunk out of almost 100 (Planets and moons) in our own solar system. I maintain that our planet is a very rare gem in the cosmos.

To expand on my "nobody is coming" comment... Given the vast, vast, number of stars in the cosmos the universe is certainly teaming with intellegent life. The problems is time and distance. What makes evolution possible is turn over. Death. And given that planets only exist for limited times that process has to move at a certain pace. While the life spans may vary greatly from system to system (Afterall planets DON'T have to be exactly like ours for life to evolve) there is a limit to how long those life spans can be, otherwise there wouldn't be enough "turn over" for evolution to work its magic within the life span of a planet. The problem is that even with the longest of life spans the universe is just to fricking big to get anywhere within even a great number of those life spans. If we had launched a ship 10,000 year ago at the best speed we've ever managed in space we'd just now be getting to edge of our own solar system.

And as for using "wormholes" to speed the process? Well, it's a nice theory but there's one problem with it. There are no wormholes in the neighborhood. A rip in the fabric of space and time of that magnitude anywhere in this galaxy would hardly escape our notice. So the idea of wormholes being used to hop about the cosmos is, to put it bluntly, moot. And where would we go? We can't just pick a likely star and spend thousand and thousand of years in some bio-dome getting there only to find out that all of it's planets are barren. What form of intellegent life would do that? (You might get Bush to back the plan but what does that have to do with intellegent life?)

There's nothing I'd like more than to make contact with intellegent life. (For the most part my search on this planet has come up empty.) But to believe we will requires, sorry about this, a LOT of Faith. Give me the math anyday.
Todd Hemphill [Email], 22.08.2005, 12:14pm link

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