Comments on Just a quicky

Can anyone say rosarch blotch? Lmfao. I really enjoyed the one about the sheep.
Anyone want to give ne 28 grand for the picture of JC i found in a dog turd ? It hasn't turned white yet despite spending 2 days in a plastic bag. ok make it a hundred even.
Hell Lad , 22.04.2005, 1:52pm link
This is typical for america. This shit happens all the time. Its god dammee embarrasing.

It harkens back to medieval times.

D
Sierra [Email], 22.04.2005, 3:43pm link
Yeah, some of them can be really dumb. I've also pointed out that story in my blog. Catholics are a weird lot. They see the sacred in everything. Didn't someone buy a clam with an alleged divine figure for thousands of dollars recently? Goodness!
Danny [Email][Home], 22.04.2005, 5:47pm link
Coupling together this and the comments about religious hatred laws, there was a case local to me in St Pete, FL where an "image" was formed when the mirrored glass on the side of a building corroded into the vague accepted virgin Mary pose. The building was immediately bought up by some religious group, but then some vandals took out the two panes that had he head on them and the police are now investigating it as a hate crime..
Redfrdsaid [Email][Home], 22.04.2005, 6:35pm link
This isn't funny... It's damn concerning :\
dave , 22.04.2005, 9:11pm link
Your life should be your sacred quest, to discover who you really are.
God is not in my mind TIm, I see him everyday when I medidate and get into the gap.
You and Sierra may see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were and ask why not?
What are you afraid of? Your ego is telling you not to do this because once you get into the gap, you will embrace spirit, and ego will put out of business. Move away from the ego, and embrace spirit. Spirit is really in control.
Mr X , 22.04.2005, 11:41pm link
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to achieve glorius triumpsh though checkered by failure, than it is to take rank with those poor spirits, who neither have much ,nor suffer much because they live in that great twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.
Mr X , 22.04.2005, 11:43pm link
Tim,Sierra
when you judge others, you don't define them, you define yourself.

Judge not, judge not, lest ye be judged.
Mr X , 23.04.2005, 1:29am link
Ok X...lets go through it...

"when you judge others, you don't define them, you define yourself"

This is true. By pointing out the fact that you are an IDIOT, I demonstrate the fact that I am not. It is my intelectual ability that helps me spot stupidity, as in religion for instance, and by judging it appropriately as BULLSHIT, I define myself as something other than an IDIOT.

"Your life should be your sacred quest, to discover who you really are."

It is. I'm working on it. One thing I have discovered so far is that there is no god, the world is full of idiots, and it is easy to get past these people in life's competition.

"I dream of things that never were and ask why not?"

Apparently you also dream of things that never were and say to yourself "no problem, I'll believe anyway".

There is no god. Embrace yourself.

D
Sierra [Email], 23.04.2005, 4:15am link
Very funny!

You might be interested in a new anti-religion campaign I have set up. (Click my link)
worldling [Email][Home], 23.04.2005, 11:04am link
mr x, do this world a favor - get over yourself.
god , 23.04.2005, 12:05pm link
Sierra, I have no need to judge anyone. I don't call people names like you do. You are hostile because that's all you have to give away. You use external judgements and this is why you don't see God. You expect something outside of yourself to solve your problems and to make your life a bliss. The solution is inside, there is a spiritual solution to every problem.
When you realize that your woe is just as divine as your joy, you will see and enjoy your connection to the infinite.
I would love to know what you mean by "there is no God". What is your definition of God, and why are you so certain of it's non existence. I challenge not to use external judgements in this process.
Mr X , 23.04.2005, 5:51pm link
When you judge other's you define yourself as someone who needs to judge.
A holy being has no need for this. To not forgive is to not understand how the universe works. Ultimately, you must forgive, because there is nothing to judge.
Get into the gap, and know that God is there. I am never alone, and know that God is with me at all times.
If you knew who walked with you at all times, then fear would be impossible.
Mr X , 23.04.2005, 5:54pm link
Fear knocked at the door, and faith answered, and no one was there.
You are afraid Sierra, you too Tim. You are afraid to embrace your highers self. Your ego has you full of turmoil and hatred. Let go ,and love others.
It's easy to love those who are easy to love, the true test is to love those who are difficult to love. You are failing this test Sierra and Tim.
Mr X , 23.04.2005, 5:58pm link
Mr. X, if you're going to claim that you're not a troll, please take my Christianity Questionnaire - I'm sure everyone will be interested in your response.
www.religionisbullshit.net/christianquestion.php
Tim [Home], 23.04.2005, 10:35pm link
Why must I take this questionaire Tim? I respect what ever religious beliefs someone has but God has no religion. I'm here to promote spiritual growth , not a particular religious faith.
If you want , I can try to answer your questionaire.

Our greatest need and most difficult challenge is to find meaning in our lives.

Let go of your hatred Tim. You are not punished for your anger, you are punished by your anger.
Mr X , 24.04.2005, 12:41am link
Why? Are you nuts?

The bible tells us (by example) that 2+2=6 and 2+2=9.

We are interested in seeing you answer questions that force you to explain obvious logical problems with the foundation of your "faith".

You, when confronted with this, like in the math problem above, wax poetic and tell us that only "god" fully understands math, that we are not capable, and should give in to math spirituality so that we may come to understand that 2+2 = BOTH 6 and 9.

I and other athiests understand that 2+2=4, it is a basic, provable universal truth, can be verified by anyone and requires no belief in a "math diety".

There is no god. Religion does not add up.

D
Sierra [Email], 24.04.2005, 1:41am link
Sierra, in base 10 arithmetic, 2+2 =4, in base 2, 2+2 = 0 (mod 2), in base 3, 2+2 = 1(mod3). I have a degree in mathematics and computer science.
I'm not like you and do not call anyone names. I will not stoop to your level. It's your gift to me, and I refuse to accept so you must take it back because it belongs to you.
I'm here to promote spiritual growth, not endorse a particular religion. If this is too difficult for you to understand, then I don't know what else to say.
Math is a creation by God as is everything we see.
You look at the world and say to yourself, this is all there is, because you follow your ego, the false impression of yourself. This is why you are full of anger and hate towards religious people. If you have a questionaire on spirituality and spiritual growth, I would be delighted to answer it.
It's interesting that you want me to answer your questions, when you never answer of mine.
For example,
what do you mean, the statement, "there is no God".
I'm waiting Sierra, since you know it all.
Mr X , 24.04.2005, 1:55am link
I don't know of any religious texts that make mathematical statements, 2+2 = 6 and 2+2 = 9. If you could provide the appropriate documentation, I would be pleased to see it.

Great spirits, are always persecuted by weaker ones.
Mr X , 24.04.2005, 1:59am link
Tim, Sierra,
you will be on this path one day. I hope you will embrace your higher self , move away from your ego's and find the peace your looking for. I don't have much interest in continuing this discussion. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to express my views.
I look forward to seeing you on the path. You are a divine spirit regardless of where you come from, and what you have done in your life.
You are exactly where you are supposed to be on the path and you are complete at each stage along the path.
Let go of your anger, forgive, and be on purpose.

I leave you with this:

When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
Mr X , 24.04.2005, 2:09am link
All of you unbelievers are going STRAIGHT TO HELL on a greased pole where Satan's huge, spiked member will be slapping at your backside for eternity. GET THEE TO CHURCH, SINNERS!
Pastor Al [Email][Home], 24.04.2005, 10:12am link
can't believe i'm saying this, but Mr X makes some good points. I don't believe myself to be atheist, or anything really, but i respect all religions. At the end of the day, religion is meant to be there to give hope and comfort to people and set out moral guidelines to make the world better. These are things that all religions have in common. so i propose this question: Are not all religions the same? As for Pastor Al, if your a true christian than surely you should be spreading the love of God rather than dishing out threats of what will happen to non-believers, thats what the early christians did to scare the pagans into believing in Christ.
louise , 24.04.2005, 10:44am link
btw sierra, FAITH is something everyone has. Even Atheists. I bet you have Faith that you will have success someday and get a life and stop talking complete bollocks at people who have different views to you.
louise , 24.04.2005, 10:48am link
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." (Mark Twain)
Tim [Home], 24.04.2005, 12:47pm link
Better call the Geek squad, it looks more like a Jawa than the virgin Mary. Or maybe a hobbit with a cloak on? Hey, I like Elijah Wood too, but I'm not going to stop traffic just to worship his skinny arse.

Unfortunately Louise, Pastor Al IS indicitive of what is left of any "real" Christianity, and Mr. X is just a role-playing troll. Add in a sprinkling of child molestors and serial killers (and it isn't just for Catholics anymore) using the church to hide in and safely quarry out their prey, and therein lies only a miniscule portion of the danger Tim speaks about. Nearly all who understand or follow the "Golden Rule" or use their faith to better their lives and lives of those around them have left for greener pastures....try the Unitarian/Universalist church. You might find some of the people you are actually looking for.

"The almighty says, 'Don't change the subject, just answer the fucking question'."--Stephen the insane Irishman, Braveheart.
Dropinin , 24.04.2005, 1:25pm link
The Kingdom of God is inside you and all around you. those who believe in him will have eternal life and feel no pain...
Holy Angel , 24.04.2005, 2:08pm link
Louise,

I have faith in a lot of thing. I have faith that my car battery won't go dead every night. I have faith that my plumbing won't leak. I have faith in our government.

If you want to believe this silly bible bullshit that is your choice. HOWEVER, I will not tolerate you forcing your "faith" in the absurd onto others by declaring that you live in a "christian" nation. How dare you god dammed people.

You keep your silly absurd beliefs to yourself.

Religion is billshit. There is no kingdom of god.

D
Sierra [Email], 24.04.2005, 7:25pm link
wow, sierra, i was going along with that whole idea that you aren't an idiot. That is until you said you have faith in our government.
Skel E. Ton [Email], 25.04.2005, 4:37am link
That dosen't mean I believe most of what they tell me. I do however have faith that the US system is the best in the world.

Perhaps I should say I have faith in our SYSTEM of government.

D
Sierra [Email], 25.04.2005, 4:50am link
Sierra, why not just believe in god! After all, doesn't your SYSTEM of goverment say "in god we trust" and isn't your president always saying "god bless america" "god this" and "God that"?

Your system of government is pretty apalling if you ask me.
Yahoo , 26.04.2005, 12:32am link
Yeah, too bad we rule the god dammed world.....ha ha ha ha ha ha....

The UK would be a german province were it not for the US. Lot of good YOUR system did you.

And as far as the currency and the president, I am always saying, "holy shit, god dammit, jesus h christ, etc". If I can do it why can't they.

D
Sierra [Email], 26.04.2005, 6:40am link
To be fair, Bush is a fucking idiot, so maybe he's a bad example.

I too have faith in our SYSTEM of government, and it is because that system that we will be rid of Bush in roughly another 4 years. Our economy is going to have to take one for the team, though.
coolspot , 26.04.2005, 11:36pm link
I'm not from the UK, there are other countries in the world. You do not rule the goddamned world, and if you think that you are a fundie just like all the so-called Christians you are lambasting here every day. Forcing the "US view" on the world is the same as forcing the "bible view" on the world.

I was wondering when you would come unstuck.

Coolspot - here's hoping. Actually there is no hope, your consitution won't allow Bush to stand again, is that right?
Yahoo , 27.04.2005, 1:32am link
Yeah, and that's a good thing. A VERY good thing.
I have this dumb shit creationist girl in my bio class... but thanks to that whole "she's wrong" thing she can't really do much. She tries, though. I hate the South.
I know the US doesn't rule the world, which is why I fucking hate Bush (partly). His arrogance gives all Americans a bad name. In fact, because I live in the South, I have to put up with a lot of "if you disagree, you're only helping the terrorists" What fucking terrorists are they talking about. Why the fuck are we in Iraq? What the hell? I hate it when someone tries to explain to me how the people want a man they can relate to; someone on their intelligence level. In the words of Jon Stewart, "I don't want someone as smart as me. I want someone smarter than me. If I wanted someone as smart as I am then why am I not President" Unfortunately I think Stewart is a lot brighter than our current President. The crazy as shit fundie groups in the US scare the hell out of me. Their only goal, it seems, is to control women. All this anti-abortion and pro-life shit they keep spewing out.... when Bush was governor of Texas, Texas had the highest number of executions per capita.

I am NOT one of those fundamentalists. I feel like my country has been taken over by criminals and thieves. Before my life is over, I will get my country back.
coolspot , 27.04.2005, 3:53am link
And I just thought of something else. All you people preaching to Tim about how he needs to open his eyes to "god" and whatnot, think about it. If this "god" fellow is really as loving and forgiving and rational as you claim he is, then he'll probably easily understand why intellectuals don't accept random stories with no credible evidence.
Better to be wrong for the right reasons than right for the wrong reasons.
coolspot , 27.04.2005, 3:59am link
Thanks coolspot, sorry - the first part of my response was actually to Sierra, I didn't take you to be a fundie of any description. I think your take on "god" and Jon Stewart are spot on!
Yahoo , 27.04.2005, 4:05am link
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/ click on
Bleak's daily cartoon
Yahoo , 27.04.2005, 4:10am link
Typical, laughed my ass off when I heard about it.
Jak , 27.04.2005, 5:30am link
bush has wedged a split through our country. just look at the last election, about half our country wanted that that arrogant bible thumping out of office. after the election, many wished that their state could secede or they could move to canada to weather out the next 4 yrs.

i agree w/ coolspot that the us is on its way to hell w/ a crazed maniac at the wheel. he's about to really mess up social security via privatization when he should be tackling more relevant and important issues like the federal deficit and what's going on in iraq. what bush is trying to do to our country makes me sick.
google , 27.04.2005, 12:41pm link
With regard to WWII, I think the US "significantly helped us" rather than "won it for us".
Two things bother me about the amount of power the US has - firstly it's it's a very right wing country, secondly it's full of Xian fundies.

I think Sierra would piss me off quite a bit if this was a blog about politics ;) - but he makes valid points as an atheist, which is the point here. Still, it at least proves to people like Mr.X that not all atheists are communists!
Tim [Home], 27.04.2005, 2:11pm link
Bush is no Ronald Raeagan. And it is true, the christian nuts have gotten a far to strong hold on American politics.

Thats all about to change though.

I think part of the reason that the fundies are coming out of the wood work has to do with the general climate of the world and the rise of "diversity" and "multiculturalism". The US has poured money and resources into the world for decades. We have given mightily to all nations. We fought off communism. We have promulgated the silly idea of diversity and multiculturalism and for what....islamic terrorism and bullshit worldwide. Look what happened when we tried to bring FOOD to Somalia.

I think the US has had enough. Screw the starving masses. People head back to their churches wringing their hands. The hawks use this a a vehicle to send out the military.

I don't advocate the bullshit religion part, but its time for some of the nations in the world to see a few bombs.

Its like with Hitler. That was only going to go one way. The same with the islamers now.

There is no god. Send in the tanks.

D
Sierra [Email], 27.04.2005, 4:10pm link
That is hysterical! Glory!
Brother Jeff [Home], 27.04.2005, 6:50pm link
YES... we need another Ronald Reagan! Someone with better tanks and guns! Someone even more-Ronald than ever before! Perhaps Bush can be more-Ronald? MORE-RONALD! MORE-RON! MORE-RON! Oh yeah, you balantly fail to take into account that the US has causd far may more problems in the world than it has solved. It is not just the amount they should spend, but HOW they should spend it. Do you honestly believe that the US could take over the world using guns & tanks? That's one of the stupidest things I have ever heard . You will never defeat terorism this way, only spark more.
Latin_lover [Email], 27.04.2005, 7:22pm link
I don't want to take over the world.

People and nations who can not stop this terrorism bullshit should be destoryed utterly. We have for 50 years tried to engage the middle east through peace. All it get us is islamis fundamentalism. They kill because their silly religion commands them to kill.

Were it not so, they would only attack the us. The islamers attacks and kill EERYBODY.

The only way we are going to see peace in the middle east is to begin killing muslims on a VAST scale.

D
Sierra [Email], 27.04.2005, 7:28pm link
You said it, "Coolspot". Better to be wrong for the right reason!!! Thomas Jefferson once told his nephew that "God" would rather have a human use his reason (to believe or not believe) than to worship him through blind-folded fear.

Bush is an idiot, but someone (don't know if its him or some advisor of his) very intelligently chose the perfect time to conduct a McCarthy-like paranoia to get him elected for another 4 years. Don't blame me...I didn't vote for him. Didn't vote for Kerry, either, but that's another story.

By the way, "In God We Trust" was not on our bills until the 1950's. All a part of McCarthyism. Defeat the evil commies by doing everything the opposite of them. "In God We Trust" and "One Nation Under God" were added to our capitalist system to combat the evil atheist commies...sad, because "Jesus" was a socialist, and the communist Russians weren't atheists. Funny story, too, because when one of our Nations most famous preachers went to communist Russia, he came back with tales of how faithful the Russians actually were (I believe most are Greek Orthodox)...and other protestant preachers got realy pissed off at him for telling the truth rather than keeping up the paranoia of the McCarthy myth.
dropinin , 27.04.2005, 9:44pm link
all i have to say is god damn
alex , 28.04.2005, 1:05am link
Nope, they are almost exclusively Russian Orthodox. Some are in Evangelical churches now, though.
Gaidheal [Email], 28.04.2005, 1:33am link
I don't like your website.Look,I'm just a critic,and I'm not religeous,but hey,I hate your web.Better go before I say a bad word.So shut the hell up. :-P
You Don\'t Wanna Know , 28.04.2005, 1:36am link
Perhaps, Sierra, you really believe that slaughter of millions is the only way to save them (wow, how close that sounds to christian rhetoric!). However, no matter what you think, it is IMPOSSIBLE. You will NEVER be able to wipe out an entire religion, which is on such a scale as Islam, with firepower. But you have to examine WHY these people attack your country. It's not simply because they "Hate Freedom", but because of the damaging effect theUS government's policies has had on them. Estimates have put the civilian casualties due to US backed sanctions in Iraq at over 1 million people (including 500000 children). There is also the fiasco in Israel. THIS is why they hate you, this is why 9/11 happened.
Latin_lover [Email], 28.04.2005, 8:40am link
dropinin -
this is how bush got re-elected. some scary and messed up shit. they play very dirty.

http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=1982320
you know you want me , 28.04.2005, 12:35pm link
Sierra

What the fuck. Youve proved yourself to be cut from the same cloth as all the fundie christian fucks youre always slamming.
Aww did the poor US of A try and try to be nice with the Arabs? Bull fucking shit. The states have been manipulating the polotics of the middle-east for 50 years to ensure the flow of oil to feed its reliance.
And now Bush and the rest of you ignorant bastards have all got that "ignore the facts and keep talking till its true" mentality. Do you think its ok to hate on that scale as long as it isnt in the name of religion ?
From now on I would suggest that visitors to this site respond to Sierras comments with total sceptisism. He is a hypocryte.
Hell Lad , 28.04.2005, 3:36pm link
Jesus christ Seirra, with views like that no wonder the rest of the world hates america. I agree with Latin_lover, take a look at your country and fix yourself before you blame everything on terrorism, america tries to push ts view onto the rest of the world with no respect for other cultures. The terrorism spreading throughout the world is being caused by your countries crock o shite foreign policy that just makes matters worse.

Also as for america having the best democratin system in the world - BULLSHIT your democracy is a joke, your elections arent decided on politics, its a popularity vote with the winner being the one backed by the richest corporations. Most people that vote dont give
damn about the candidate and just vote for the party, no matter what they stand for, just because thats what their parents and friends do. Also i wouldnt call it much of a democracy if there are only 2 parties to vote for, giving you only 2 options for precident, meaning if you disliked either of them you've got nothing.
Dodge [Email], 28.04.2005, 4:19pm link
"The only way we are going to see peace in the middle east is to begin killing muslims on a VAST scale." - (Sierra) That's your definition of peace?
superbus [Email], 28.04.2005, 6:16pm link
Yeah...but you can't argue with the results. Rhode Island could kick the UK's ass in a war.

The problem in the world today is simple. There are too many god dammed people. And I don't mean the US and UK. I mean China, Korea, India and the middle east. These people live in poverty and continue to breed at an alarming rate.

As the world fills up with people, all expecting a non-existant god to provide for them, competition for scarce resources will intensify.

The clash of competing socio-econimic perspectives will intensify.

This is just facts.

As China comes online with a middle class oil demand and prices will soar. This is going to crash the economies of poor nations. They will then rally against the wealthy nations saying "you did this to us".

Stir in backward religions (especially islam) which virtually guarantee a nation with an enonomically unviable society and you have a recipe for disaster. Their leaders are not going to say "its us, we screwed up with our silly faith" so they will get everyone cranked up at hating the outsider. After all, decmocracy, an educated and fed population with a middle class and women who are not tortured, killed and treated like second class citizens - these are all bad things.

The US is the evil empire that wants everyone to be free.

Perhaps you are right. If we close our borders and let these people starve maybe we won't need so many bombs.

There is no god. Look what the belief has done to the world.

D
Sierra [Email], 28.04.2005, 6:35pm link
Okay...gotta step in.

There is too many people the world over. We are a plague of locusts upon this little rock. And religion has a manner of keeping people backward and ignorant. But someone up there had a great point...work on ourselves before turning a sore on upon someone else. Yes, Sadaam is and always will be an asshole. Yes, someone needs to put a bomb down bin Laden's shorts and see how he likes it. And yes, the dream that the Founding Fathers of the United States had is one that I will cherish to my dying day. Unfortunately, that dream has split a long time ago. Socrates once said that you cannot simply hand a slave his freedom...he has to fight for it to appreciate it. Well, today no one in the U.S. appreciates what little freedoms they have left. And I doubt that the Iraqi's will appreciate it, either, until we give them the chance to demand it for themselves. And thats all I've got to say.

And thanks for correcting me on the Russian Orthodox thingie. I don't often think of the faith in Russia. Don't know why....(rolls eyes). Stupid blurby mistake.

"In order to converse with his equal, an Irishman must talk to God."--Steven, the insane Irishman, Braveheart.
dropinin , 28.04.2005, 8:12pm link
To Sierra
There are not too many people in the world, there is just a very poor dispersion of the worlds wealth. If this were to be fixed, then third world countries would no longer be in poverty and would be able to cope with their population growth and other worries, but as it stands now america basically holds the monopoly on the worlds wealth and will not do anything about it except to increase it to become more powerful. This is just one of the reasons why the rest of the world despise america.
So what if Rhode island can take out the UK, personally i dont give a shit, this just shows that america waste too much money on defence if their smallest state can defeat the UK, proving that my first point is correct.

The US does not want everyone to be free, this is just propaganda played by your government to get support of the masses. There are many other threats in the world, why iraq? maybe its because it contains a huge percentage of the worlds oil fields and america want control of these. Also america doesnt believe in freedom, just look at Guantanamo Bay where hundreds of prisoners are kept with NO reason and tortured, all because the government think they're a threat, nevermind if they're innocent. Dont forget about you bullshit gun laws that mean no one is safe at night as there as easy to get hold of as (legally and illegally) sweets from the cornershop.

And for your view on performing mass genocide on the islamic world, you are judging hundreds of millions of people on the actions of a few. I personally know quite a few muslims and none of them want to blow your pathetic excuse of a country up. Infact i know more white people that hate america than islamic people. Maybe you should get clued up about whats really going on, instead of believing all the bullshit you see in your local racist tabloids as it sounds to me like you are using faith as an excuse for murder. It IS americas fault for the worlds condition and you should take some responsibility for your actions.
Dodge [Email], 28.04.2005, 8:52pm link
to dropinin,

The Founding Fathers never meant for me to be anymore than a slave by day and a bed-warmer by night. In their eyes Sierra (if she's white) should be nothing more than a mute, child-bearing receptacle. In the early days of America, only rich, white males had any say or any power.

Also, there isn't too many people on the earth. If one were to divide the amount of usable land on the earth, by the number of people on earth, then every person would have a sizable chunk of land to themselves. (In the U.S., everyone would get about 1 patch of land 600'x600' [about the same size as a large city block] in area).
ckb , 28.04.2005, 9:10pm link
Okay, I've had enough of the America bashing. I know the administration in place sucks, and your views are perfectly justified, but recognize that half of the people in our country are incredibly stupid. They have been duped into Bush's plan because he identifies with their "Christian values". The other half voted for Kerry.

The only thing Bush is doing with our country is fucking it up with his shitty economic policies and foreign policy. In another four years I hope to see another man like Clinton running. Clinton was one of the best damn presidents our country has ever had, and we may see someone as good as him running next time as well.
coolspot , 28.04.2005, 10:50pm link
Oh, and by the way... that whole "America's fault" thing... I'm calling bullshit on that one right now. I'm not aruging that we're doing anything to help, I'm just saying that the main reason the world is the way it is today is because of World War II and The Cold War. Although the U.S. was a major player in each, especially in the latter, that doesn't automatically make us responsible for all the consequences of the wars.
With the Cold War it was either play chess with the Soviet Union with the rest of the world as the pieces or just concede to them. Stalin was an evil man, and I think we did a damn good job of stopping him. Just there's that whole thing with the Middle-East being the way it is today because of the U.S.
coolspot , 28.04.2005, 11:44pm link
US's actions during the Cold War, that is.
coolspot , 28.04.2005, 11:46pm link
Unless it's regarding problems of religion, there's no need for America bashing here, this is not a political blog.
I've at least saved my America bashing for elsewhere ...
http://www.timsellers.net/winston/2004/11/our-good-friends-americans.php
(for example)
Tim [Home], 28.04.2005, 11:48pm link
ok ok, i concede that not everything can be blamed solely on america, but it has played a major part in most things.
With WWII if they hadnt have stepped in when they did, most, if not all of Europe and africa would have been under German occupation so i thank them for this. However with the Cold War, much of the blame falls on america (although Im not saying that the USSR didnt play its part). Both sides forced each other into a political and military stand off but because of each sides bullshit machoism they refused to back down and reason. The USSR wasnt going to invade other countries, it had enough problems of its own without starting yet another world war. This problem could have been solved quickly but instead america chose to drag it on for half a century untill the USSR collapsed.

As for Stalin being evil, yes he was, but he died in the fifties (maybe sixties), and the Cold War ended in the early nineties so he was not the only leader of the USSR in charge throughout. Many other leaders that followed were actually good uncorrupted leaders, but because of Stalins atrocious crimes, people thought the USSR was evil when it wasnt.

america has caused loads of problems for the world, many yes in the middle east, but there are others, for example North Korea, who are being threatened by america so need to defend themselves with nuclear weapons. they also have decided to sell weapons to both India and Pakistan, starting an arms race between the two. There are other examples such as the Kyoto agreement but the list would go on for ages.
Dodge [Email], 29.04.2005, 12:24am link
ok sorry tim im done (unless someone wants to kick off again).
Dodge [Email], 29.04.2005, 12:26am link
Dodge,

To suggest that the USSR did not want to invade other countries is idiocy. What about Afganistan, Czekslovokia and others.

Throughout it all was the US - advancing the same ideals as we do now and sticking up for other people.

The three big problems are Nazism, Communism, and Islam (ism).

The next battle is brewing.

Which side will you be on?

As far as wealth goes, why is it that the nations with unlimied economic growth potential (Iraq, Saudi, Iran, etc) through oil have almost all their people living in poverty with all that wealth consolidated in a few hands?

I suppose you consider the Taliban as a nice bunch of clerics we could engage economically by respecting their beliefs?

There is no god. Buy a gun to protect yourself from his "followers".

D

D
Sierra [Email], 29.04.2005, 1:08am link
The big problems are greed, hypocrisy and ignorance. Sierra, you honestly sound like a fundie christian. WHy should China et al not have cars? I mean why are we allowed? Because we are white, christian and got in first. If you believe all that bs you are spinning then I hope all your electricals and clothes are "made in America using American materials" or did you mean by closing the borders that America the Supreme takes all and gives none? Oh wait, except a few well-placed bombings.

Tim, I get your point but the fact is that religion = politics. Especially when politics are totally based on a religious view (Islam or Christian).

Sierra, the attitude that a few well-placed bombs are long overdue is probably exactly what the 9-11 attacks were about. Someone else had the same idea as you, but apparently when the US has that idea it is good (because you are Christians).

WHat is fucking up the world, is all the garbage and shit we are producing. And I don't see anyone cutting down. Okay for a fat American nation to ride on everyone elses (the rest of the worlds) back, bomb them when they get fed up with riding a bike 50km to make a 2cent export T-shirt in XXXL, and make decrees about who gets to live the good life or not (they shouldn't have cars, they'll use up all the oil).

You do make good points about religion being bullshit - but obviously because you are intimately familiar with that bullshit. It's your world view
Yahoo , 29.04.2005, 4:29am link
Yahoo...

I'm not saying China shouldn't have cars...they will regardless. The point is that this and other similar things like it will have economic and resource implications for the whole world.

As far as the garbage messing up the world do you expect that will decrease as the world's population grows?

Have you ever seen mistletoe growing in an oak tree? After a while the mistletoe grows so much that it kills the oak tree. That is not right or wrong....it just IS.

Its the same with the world. The reality of Atheism is that it makes it possible to understand nature. The the socio-economic clash of nations there is no right or wrong....there just IS.

I want to ensure that my way of life succeeds, even if that comes at the expense of someone elses.

As far as the US riding on everyone's back, the US is a far cleaner place than most of the other nations on the planet. If you don't believe me, do a little research.

The 9/11 attacks may have been motivated by the same type of thinking I advovcate. Fine. Now its time to visit that back on them.

D
Sierra [Email], 29.04.2005, 5:56am link
I've done quite a bit of research, I'm not talking about hygiene, I'm talking about waste. Yes the "third" world has few if any controls on pollution but it still pales into insignificance compared with the the US.

Surviving at everyone elses expense is I suppose Darwinian, but there are ways to reduce impact on others.
Yahoo , 29.04.2005, 7:00am link
Visit that back on them????????

Are you for real? So you will just sit there as the retaliation escalates, and say "oh well" I guess it's my turn again? Do me a favour - kill your children now
Yahoo , 29.04.2005, 7:02am link
Sierra, why exactly, if ou appreciate how terrible 9/11 was, do you wish to inspire another one? That is al the beliefs of people like you will ever do. Also, I agree wholeheartedly with what ckb said. The amount of resources is not the problem, the distibution of it is. If we had some way to get all the surplus food in the EU to Africa, millions of lives would be guaranteed. Besides, all your "oil stealing" is merely moving a close problem slightly away. If you rely on fossil fuels, either they or the ozone will run out. Personally I don't want to be around for either one.
Latin_lover [Email], 29.04.2005, 8:25am link
holy fuck, the more sierra opens his mouth, the more he sounds like bush. and that's a sad thing. the world isn't so black and white and its problems so easily solved as you would believe.

population control should probably be commenced by sterilization those like sierra >=)

in any case, sierra probably doesn't realize that china has some of the worst popultion problems of any developing country and they are way ahead of the US in working with car companies to develop cars which run on alternative fuels. there is absolutely no room in that country for any more polution, it's pretty much killing off their people as it is. and if you know anything about 'one child' laws for population control in china, it's pretty much made a social economic mess.
google , 29.04.2005, 9:23am link
Sierra
Islam is NOT a threat just because of a few hardcore fanatics. You cannot judge the entire religion on just a few people. This is just the same as judging the entire christian population on those pro-life terrorists that kill doctors (now they should die, hypocritical bastards).
If there is a battle between america and Islam, id rather be on the Islamic side because america will have caused the war. america are in the wrong, not Islam.
Please, just think of what you are arguing for. You are in favour of commiting genocide. You want to kill hundreds of millions of people because of the actions of a few, all in the name of making america a better place. Have you not learnt from atrocities such as the holocaust and relatively recently whats taken place in Rewanda and Yugoslavia. You have no right to inflict your belief system onto another culture, however right you think you are, bacause fundementally you have christian morals (even though your not, your were brought up in a christian society which your government is based on), whilst their morals are based on an entirely different religion.
You do realise that if you you bombed the middle east this would just make the problem worse as there is no way in hell you could kill everyone . Islam is the fastest growing religion in america and across Europe, so you would have to start a civil war, but also invade almost every other country in the world. This would surely bring about the end for america because every other country in the world would realise that your view is bullshit and all join forces to defeat you.
Dodge [Email], 29.04.2005, 10:38am link
i hate america for the following reasons: they're
racist, they're god loving freaks, they're fat, oh an thick as shit. bring it on sierra you thick fucking yank
UK girl , 29.04.2005, 5:32pm link
well said!
Latin_lover [Email], 29.04.2005, 5:51pm link
Well,

On that note, I have the UK (actually I don't) but....
They have no self worth, "Prince" Charles (enough said), the women all look like men, they're drunks, an obviously sore losers.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 29.04.2005, 6:58pm link
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

thats me laughing at you and your stereotypical british veiws. I bet you think we all wear black suits and bowler hats aswell.
Were not all drunks, its called binge drinking, theres a huge difference, its a good time out that people enjoy.
Our women are much nicer than your slutty american plastic queens or fat people, and dont forget their headache induceing god-awful accents.
As for the monarchy, before mocking our heads of state take a look at your own. Goerge Bush was a drunk and drug adict that got to power from bullshit about seeing god and Bill Clinton fucked every woman in site and lied about it.
I think weve gone off topic a little here, and your petty racism marks your defeat in this argument - try coming back with reason next time instead of trying to agrue your points with complete bullshit.
Dodge [Email], 29.04.2005, 10:17pm link
Also sore losers about what exactly?
Dodge [Email], 29.04.2005, 10:18pm link
Racisim?....where was that...

Much of what you say about Bush and clinton is true, but we will be rid of both soon, and we DON't go around suggesting they are somehow better than us just because their mother inherited a lot of money (which her family stole over several hundred years).

The proof of the bullshit system in the UK is the fact that you have to be members of one family to be part of the monarchy. At least in the US anyone can have any job.

Perhaps your women are nice, bu thats no excuse for androgeny.

The silly part is that if the US, Western Europe, and Russia would unite as one, we could quickly mop up the terrorism problem and put a stop to the N. Norean issue. Then, with US, and UK oil, the massive reserves in Russia could take demand completely off the middle east, reduce those regimes to poverty, provide cheap fuel for the western world and improve everyon'e life. Then we could build a fence around the middle east and let those bastards worship allah to their poverty hearts content.

D
Sierra [Email], 29.04.2005, 10:57pm link
Racism - Judging an individual solely on his or her racial affiliation. What you said about the british and Islam was racist.
We dont pretend that the royalty are better than us, i personally would like to abolish the monarchy because there a bunch of pompus twats that are always in the news pissing me off over doing trivial things that most people do everyday. However there are people that look up to them, just like there are people in america that look up to your leaders. And speaking of stealing money, didnt america basically trick and steal all its land off the Native Indians ?
Adrodgeny?? the mixing of male and female characteristics?? so what if our women demand respect and earn their keep, they dont have beards or penis's. I dont know what you mean by this comment but women deserve the same rights as men.
So now basically you want the west to unite against Islam by cutting off their major source of income and quarantining them. You do realise that without western income they would all die. You would condemn hundreds of millions of innocent people to death because of the actions of a handful of people. Do you not realise that your argument is flawed? can you not see what you are suggesting is wrong ? do you have no humanity?
SO you dont believe in a god, big deal. Im not religious either, but that doesnt give me or you the right to take someones religious freedom away from them, no matter what they believe in, let alone sentance them to death. Please think about what you are saying before you make stupid comments like this again.
Dodge [Email], 30.04.2005, 12:32am link
My stand is clear:
produce to distribute,
feed before you eat,
give before you take,
think of others before you think of yourself,
only a selfless society based on sharing can be stable and happy.
This is the only practical solution. If you do not want it,
then fight.

I want it, and hope you do to.
Mr X , 30.04.2005, 1:03am link
Listen Dodge,

Last time I checked being either British or Islamic does not constitute a race.

My comments might rise to bigotry, but not racism.

I persoanlly don't think any of it. I generally want the person in front of me in line to disappear because they are in front of me in line. I don't want it more or less if they are British, white, black, islamic, jewish....on and on.

The reality is that there is a finite number of humans that this planet can support. I seek to do as nature intended...forward my type.

If it came down to you and I and the last bite of food in the world I would try to take it from you. I would expect you to do the same. Each of us trying to survive without delusions of a god-influenced morality.

If you were dumb enough to announce that your god commanded you to give me the last bite...I would say thanks, eat it and then tell you what an idiot you were.

I am not racist or anything else.

Life is a zero sum game my friend. Sombody wins and somebody loses.

I try to win. I respect you if you do as well. Togehter we will meet in the struggle of natural life.

Let me give you an example. A well-placed spider web will catch more than the spider could ever hope to eat. That kind of mis-allocation of resources does not make the spider bad - just lucky.

In the next 500-1000 years some people on this planet are going to lose big. I am trying to prevent me and my decendants from being some of them.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 30.04.2005, 2:45am link
I am distantly Scotish and I think there is an old Scotish saying that postulates:

"Me before my brother, my brother before my neighbor, my neighbor before an outsider."

That pretty much sums up my philosophy.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 30.04.2005, 2:51am link
This a round planet Sierra, and there is no choosing sides. We are all part of us, and there is no them.
Sharing resources = peace.
Mr X , 30.04.2005, 3:21am link
Really, tell that to the victims of 9/11.

D
Sierra [Email], 30.04.2005, 4:37am link
Ah! He has invoked the sacred terror of 9/11! No-ones allowed to accept reality that perhaps the terrorists had some reason for doing what they did... but then I do tend to find that beyond the grasp of most conservative Americans. (Notice I did say conervative, nothing racist about that!) And my God, when I read some of Mr X's earlier posts I dismissed himas a lunatic. Now I find myself agreeing with him (in this case at least). We are an interactive species. We need each other to survive. And I think that it is a good thing that we have in this country (Scotland) some multiculturalism but not much racism. And wehn will you understand that, even if Europe and the US and Russia were to ally (for some bizarre reason) aginast terrorism, we would merely spark more. You are talking about taking these peoples lives and resources, and expect them to just sit back and NOT do things like 9/11? Of course it would be more honourable for them to fight your military, but why should they? You fight and kill so many more of their civilians than they have of yours. Actually, now I come to think of it, you are actually CONDONING 9/11 as they are applying you philosophy of "Myself and my people First". They just had a lot more courage than the ways the Americans carry it out.
Latin_lover [Email], 30.04.2005, 10:21am link
What about the collateral victims of your Iraqi war ?
As for a finite amount of people that this world can support : how would you know ?
Maybe if 1st world countries like the US shared there surplus with the rest of the world we could do away with hunger and poverty.
But that aint the american way is it ?
Maybe if you werent clearing the rainforest for you herds of walking McDonalds burgers and pumping exhaust from your millions of cars into the atmosphere we wouldnt have to worry about thee eco system.
Wake up and see that the rest of the world could give a fuck about the US other than that youre like a bunch of locusts fucking the world up for the rest of us.
Sierra and the rest of his ilk s attitude is what makes dienfranchised people feel that "Terrorism " is ther only means of expression.
Hell Lad , 30.04.2005, 11:43am link
Oh yeh S

Funny you should chose to equate youself to a simple species like the spider.
More advanced species would eat there fill of whatever they catch and leave the rest to be eaten by other less fortunate species. The carcess of a zebra would certainly not go to waste in the veldt.
Yet here you are a member of the most advanced species on the planet advocating the same mindless waste of excess resources as a simple, mindless arachnid.
Hell Lad , 30.04.2005, 12:05pm link
i think Mr. X said it perfectly well. No matter who we are or what we believe in, we are all basically the same, and an attitude like yours will only lead to more war and suffering which can be easily avoided.
If you really believe in killing people to make room for yourself, family and friends, surely you should be thanking terrorists for doing this for you or is the situation different because they are attacking american people who you care about and not some middle east country that you dont care about?
Dodge [Email], 30.04.2005, 2:59pm link
Hell-

"More advanced species would eat there fill of whatever they catch and leave the rest to be eaten by other less fortunate species."

Thats pretty much what the US does, does it not. We sure take a lot of crap for leaving that carcass for the "less fortunate".

That was a realy bad example!!!!

Look, if you think the the 9/11 terrorists had a justification, then now we have one. We got into this mess by supporting Israel (someone they hate). Israel got hated for announcing that "god promised us this land" and whooping up on the plaestinians.

This forum is supposed to be about religion and it is at the heart of this. Now that the shit has started, I am not going to lose.

Your posts are typical of the UK "peace in our time" bullshit. Apparently in your opinion the world should bow down the moment someone announces they have a problem with one of our policies.

Believe it or not, I would NEVER abandon the UK, no matter who had issue with what the UK was doing.

THERE IS NO GOD.

D
Sierra [Email], 30.04.2005, 6:22pm link
Sierra, 9/11 impacted me more than you because I work in the finance industry. There was a risk conference on the 100 (101- can't exactly remember) floor of the south tower at 9am Sept 11, 2001. I turned down the opportunity because I was too busy working on a project. SO I would have been there when the first plane hit and wouldn't have survived.
Our government could have taken that opportunity to send American Muslims out to the middle east to open dialogue with Iran, Iraq , Israel and other nations. Communication resolves grievances. We could have won their cooperation and they would help us shut down these terrorist groups. We had an opportunity to open the doors to peace with the Islamic world, instead we choose to attack Afganistan and Iraq, creating more terrorists who want to kill us. If the US govt would stop meddling with other countries the terrorists will go home. 9/11 was horrible, and I lost colleagues and friends. In the process of building relations with the Islamic world, America does have the right to defend itself against more attacks.
This world needs to communicate with each other. Sharing resources, and working together for mutual prosperity will help bring world peace.
Sierra, other people have ego's too and there ego's get offended and they want to attack and destroy you too. Lets communicate with them, get their higher selves (ie. their spirits) involved. There is no us, and them. We are all one.
Mr X , 30.04.2005, 7:02pm link
The first question of your questionaire helped me change my life Tim. You are right, God has no religion. If Saul can change to the apostle Paul, so can Mr. X admit to the mistakes of ego, and embrace spirit as the guiding light in my life.
Mr X , 30.04.2005, 7:06pm link
I don't mean to change the subject here.... well actually I do.
Family Guy, the new episode to air tomorrow, has leaked.
I for one must say IT IS FUCKING HILARIOUS. Numerous jabs at Christianity built into the same show I love so much. Everyone watch it the broadcast tomorrow, even if you've already downloaded the leak. Unless you live in the UK, in which case it probably won't be broadcast for a long time. I can't believe this show is airing in prime time.
coolspot , 30.04.2005, 10:51pm link
I never once said that the terrorists had a justification! I mean that I can understand why they did it. The killing of civilians, is, in my view, compltely unnacceptable. However your government failed to take into account that some people will seek revenge however possible. And how can you vilify them then turn around and say you should be allowed to kill them all? n thatcase YOU should respect them, as they are just like you, but with a greater sense of duty and determination. I'm not saying Islam is a good thing, but if you try and destroy it by force, then you can hardly expect it to fight fair. It is, after all, much less powerful militarily at least.
Latin_lover [Email], 30.04.2005, 11:12pm link
Having a peaceful dialogue with nuts like that only inspires others to do more.

Why do you suppose places like Israel refuse to negotiate with terrorists? Because a few hardliners are trying to make life difficult for everyone?

If you will recall, the world TRIED to negotiate with the taliban. Do you remember what happened? We could not even get them to stop blowing up ancient statues in their own country. Do you really expect that they will sit down and decide to turn over terrorists?

Ultimately a people is responsible for its members. This is the rallying cry of the terrorists in attacking the US.

I say we visit it back on them.

They can send a peace delegation just as easy as they can.

There is no god. Allah is a fabricated whore.

D
Sierra [Email], 01.05.2005, 1:36am link
"The object of war is not to die for your country. The object is to make the other poor bastard die for his."

And yes, there is a very definite difference between understanding terrorists and sympathizing with them. The Bush administration has failed to make this distinction, so they moronically preach that the terrorists "hate us for our freedom" which anyone with half a brain would know isn't true.
coolspot , 01.05.2005, 6:07am link
Not really interested in why.

Don't care "why" someone breaks into my house. Just care that they did.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 01.05.2005, 8:10am link
How did we get from a Holy image of a Jawa stain to discussion on politics? Oh, well.

The solution to all of America's ills is a simple one. Butt the fuck out. "Friendly trade relations with all, beholden to none," was the original intent of the U.S. founding fathers. Osama wants us out of his holy land, then fine...lets get the frack out. Lets stop paying for their oil while we're at it. Ethanol and biodeisel are cheaper and cleaner anyway (and smell like fried chicken). And since Israel doesn't listen to us, why should we bother with them anyway. We just need to stop paying this "be my friend" tax to these nations that hate us (thousands a month just to prop up someone elses democracy). I'm going to use an old "Conservative" rant...its not going to get fixed by throwing money at it, so lets just drop it all together.

Ah, relationships are funky. And when you have a family as big and diverse and beautiful as good ol' Terra's, it gets even funkier. So, for now, I'm going to do some lazy work, maybe watch Colin Firth's "Trauma" while I'm at it. Its the weekend, and watching someone go insane is a wee bit less complicated.
dropinin , 01.05.2005, 12:58pm link
Its funny - when bodies go floating down rivers in africa, people start winding up in mass graves in the balkans or someone's crops fail and everyone starts starving the come begging to the US to help.

Even the UN tells us that rich nations like the US must do more.

But, as soon as the US starts to try to make things better we are told that we are "Interfering".

If I recall, during WWII some Brits said the yanks were "Overpaid, over sexed and over here". Now, I suppose as soon as that was expressed we should have "butted out" and let them all die, right?

Personally I think we should butt out. A good many of these groups would starve themselves to death all by themselves.

Of course then people would say the US was a callous rich nation who ignored the plight of the less fortunate.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 01.05.2005, 4:05pm link
Oh ffs Sierra its because the only time you get involved is to interfere. The Yanks have never fought a war for purely altruistic reasons. World War 2 to stop the Japanese getting to much support from Germany, Korea and Vietnam to stop communism,Afghanistan for revenge and Iraq for pure fucking profit.
The majority of americans before america got involved in world war 2 were either indifferent or on the otherside until Pearl Harbour.
I think what this debate has proven is that its not just the religeous right that needs fighting its right wingers in general. Religeon is political.
We may never have peace as a species but as long as there are those that keep promoting it we might keep ourselves from going back to the dark ages completely.
Hell Lad , 02.05.2005, 5:12pm link
"World War 2 to stop the Japanese getting to much support from Germany"

You must be insane.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 02.05.2005, 5:17pm link
Hell lad's right. Prior to pearl harbor, the U.S. didn't give a rat's ass about WWII. Also, when the U.S. did get involved many people were suspicious of the U.S. motives in trying to free another country.

Plus I'm sick and tired of hearing people in this country say "If if weren't for us (the U.S.) during WWII you'd be speaking German right now." because it's simple bullshit for these reasons:
1. The U.S. didn't have much of a role in "saving" Europe from the Germans.
2. Most of the soldiers who fought in WWII are either dead or dying (at a rate of 1100 per day). Unless you, yourself, were there in the midst of the action, you shouldn't say "we", because that would be taking credit for another person's hard work and sacrifice.

To all with the above sentiment:
Get to a library and do your research before espousing such ignorant views.
ckb , 02.05.2005, 7:01pm link
Boy you sure don't know history. I suppose you never heard of things like "lend lease".

I have relatives buried at Normandy. Don't give me that bullshit about the past.

D
Sierra [Email], 02.05.2005, 7:09pm link
Everything I said is true. These are facts I found when researching WWII for a research paper six months ago. So don't call my informed and proven facts "bullshit", while continuing to espouse your ignorant, uninformed opinions.

Finally, If you weren't there yourself, then you don't have the right to use the first person plural in discussing any war.
Because veterans really like it when people act like the horrors they witnessed firsthand were just simple walks in the park (I'm being sarcastic, of course).

Read and search for the truth instead of letting the media spoon-feed lies and euphenisms to you. After all, this spoon-feeding is why religion still exists!
ckb , 02.05.2005, 9:43pm link
In your opinion we shouldn't fight a war for altruistic reasons. Remember, we should "butt out".

So once again, we are bastards for ignoring it, we are bastards for getting involved.

If you are an american you are one unpatriotic bastard.

Since the US is going to get condemmed either way, I say we get condemmed for making our nation safe.

Screw islam and screw the middle east.

There is no god, and certainly no allah.

D
Sierra [Email], 02.05.2005, 10:00pm link
O ffs Seirra
Stop twisting peoples words.
Noones said you shouldnt fight wars for altruistic reasons. I and others have said that the US doesnt. Why even bother if youre not going to pay attention .
Hell Lad , 03.05.2005, 3:37pm link
Also, just to add to that, the USA did NOT declare war on Germany it was the other way round. And he is unpatriotic for opposing a system of government that makes the US far more hated around the world? Opposition to the status quo is not unpatriotic. In fact, it is the duty, according to your constitution to question and scrutinise the government. It doesn't take much digging to see what is wrong with it. And it is true that the US will always be blamed whether it does or does nor participate, this is onlyif it does this for selfish reasons. A good example of when America should have left alone is in the 1970's when there was a CIA backed coup d'etat of the elected socialist Salvador Allende in Chile. An example of when they should have helped is with the current AIDS crisis in Africa. Neither of these would have directly (per se) helped America, but the long-term increase in reputation would have encouraged more people to embrace America, rather than detest it. Instead, they attacked Iraq, with money that could have neutralised world hunger for years. Now, which do you think would have better served the reputation of America? Do you think people would really turn in large numbers and bite the hand that fed them? I certainly don't.
Latin_lover [Email], 03.05.2005, 10:38pm link
Okay, although there was a mass movement towards isolationism in America prior to Pearl Harbor, that isn't to say we did nothing. In fact, because FDR was such a kick ass President, we did numerous things to aid the allies prior to our direct involvement.
1. Destroyer for bases deal.
2. Lend lease act
3. Atlantic Charter

All three of those are prior to Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. Although that's probably because FDR realized that the Axis powers were a threat to everyone, including the U.S.

Personally, I think it would be a great idea if the U.S. just totally quit messing with other countries. Unfortunately, it's just not that simple. Remember what happened with the Philippines?
As a political move they asked the US to leave, thinking we wouldn't. Well, we did, and now they aren't doing too well...

The U.S. does fight for altruistic reasons. Remember when we tried to give food to starving Somalians? Actually, the examples I was going to lay out were done under Clinton.

Bush has never, and will almost certainly never, fight a war for a selfless reason. I don't think he went into Iraq for the oil though. I personally believe he started that war because Saddam attempted to assinate his father. Bush Senior had a damn good reason for not taking over Iraq, and unfortunately it seems all the drugs Bush did have clouded his judgement.
I'm afraid the rest of the world is just going to have to put up with the U.S. for another few years, until our government changes again. right now all three branches are controlled by the republicans.
I still firmly believe that the U.S. has one of the best forms of government ever created, simply because of its ability to adapt quickly.
I hate Bush. He's the reason America had that whole "rip on the French at every opportunity" thing. The French are awesome. When I lived there in Metz back in 1998, they all seemed to love Americans. I doubt I would be treated the same if I went back now.
One last thing, then I'm done rambling. The Republicans need to go back to being embarassed about shit like what Bush pulled in Florida in 2000, like they were when Nixon had that whole Watergate thing going. Bush never should have become President, and if he hadn't stolen the election, we would be looking at a very different world right now.
coolspot , 03.05.2005, 10:42pm link
And Latin lover, understand that even though Bush would never do something so generous as to give food to hungry people, lack of food isn't the cause of world hunger. Lack of delivery methods is.
coolspot , 03.05.2005, 10:43pm link
Damn I guess I should finish reading your posts before I make a small post to avoid double posting, but anyways...
In South Africa there's nothing we can do about AIDS without openly opposing the views of the government in place there. They for some reason or another strongly discourage use of condoms. Also, Bush isn't really all that capable of helping people with any problems that have to do with sex. I believe his views on the matter are "if you had waited till marriage it wouldn't have happened, so too bad"
My views on the matter: if you're waiting until marriage to have sex, there is something wrong with you on a basic emotional level.
coolspot , 03.05.2005, 10:48pm link
comes to minbd though. the name hall land is kool, and it remeinds me of soemthing. hell was made all demony and unfluffy in the dark ages to scare the crap out of non christians and christians alike. before that it was basically like heaven where you could hang out, order pizza, and play videogames without having angels fly over head.
Chris Swanson [Email][Home], 03.05.2005, 11:00pm link
an interesting thought came to mind. religon is politics in diguise. and what are politics you ask?

Poli: many
ticks: blood sucking parasite
Politics: many blood sucking parasites

:) lol, i had to say that.
CJ [Email][Home], 03.05.2005, 11:02pm link
hey MRX, on 22//o5, that thing about you ask why, and i say why not? saw that all over the place, mainly in science rooms like biology.
CJ [Email][Home], 03.05.2005, 11:05pm link
once again im the only one talking, but about that whole AIDS in africa, it reminded me of something. theres this drug for health care workers now against aids that is fora specific type of AIDS that slows don the virus growth so much you're more likely to die of old age if you have aids. shame it doesn't work with the other strains.
CJ [Email][Home], 03.05.2005, 11:07pm link
hey, since im still here and out of touch, when pastor al said "YOU GO TO HELL! YOU GO TO HELL AND DIE!" that thingy? to beleive in hell, you need to beleive in a god. im a fairly layed back atheist who likes to discuss religon even with christians, but when they say "YOU GO TO HELL! YOU GO TO HELLA AND DIE!" that thing gets rather old. my life is my heaven, and the world is my hell, however, i shape both to my desire. mind you though, would you also say that buhddists (did i spell it right?) and hindus, perhaps some of the coolest most peaceful pepoele are going to go to hell becuase they tip their hat to a better way of life then a book and a man nailed to a tree can bring? if so, i'll see you in hell, i got reservations for a nice room, whipping and burnign at six, and yoga at 4 pm.


you do not need a religon or a book t dictate what is right and wrong. the theory of morality states taht a person chooses what is right and wrong, not their peers.

for that matter, i notice more and more people are being nicer and nicer, and when i asked one why, they said "i think the end is near!" basically, to be a good christitan, you have to fear your all loving father. if you're not a christian, you don't live in constant fear of divine retributino becuase you are doing what you know is right, not what a books ays is right.
CJ [Email][Home], 03.05.2005, 11:20pm link
CJ, I'm not sure what you are referring to. I've said before, that you can go to church and practice all kinds of bible sayings you want, but you can't find your heart in a temple unless you have a temple in your heart.
I have a question for brother Tim and anyone else who can answer it.
Consider the mineral iron. If the earth is the only place where we can extract iron, then the amount of iron is finite. When you have a blood test , the doctor or lab can check for iron. Now here's the question. Where was this iron before you came into the now-here from nowhere? I await your responses.
Mr X , 03.05.2005, 11:48pm link
Anger and hatred water your wrath and it grows into a poison tree inside of you which bears fruit. Communication resolves grievances. Talk to your wrath, and your wrath will end.
Let go of the anger you have against christians and honor their and anyone else's religious beliefs.
Mr X , 03.05.2005, 11:51pm link
The reality is that the US should probably cut off aid to most other countries. The there is no meaningful reason to keep somalians from starving and doing so did not get us any brownie points with anyone.

Usually most of the needy nations are poor because of religion or political philosophy. Our aid, support and any international esteem we get for helping will change neither of those.

As soon as we show up with food and suggest that "hey, perhaps you should consider changing your sillly, fucked up, allah-based system of resource management" people accuse the US of trying to "colonize" these people or make a land grab for military bases or oil.

Screw them all.

I personally could not care less that somalians starve or that the African Tutsi's filled the rivers with the bodies of the Hutu's (or vice versa).

Basicly if that is how those people want to live, I think we should respect it. Let their gods save them. That is really the untimate respect for other ways of life (or death).

The reality is that there is NOTHING to be gained be helping by the vast majority of 3rd world nations. Once they are fed they will breed. As soon as they do that, it will just take more food to keep them alive.

The US is by far the most generous nation on earth.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 04.05.2005, 1:19am link
But who will work in your sweat shops Sierra? Who will you exploit to furnish your ravenous need for Nikes, XXXXL T-shirts, oil, cheap rainforest wood, coal? Oh! Duh yes of course, if they are DEAD you can just swan in there and take it.
Yahoo , 04.05.2005, 2:17am link
You're not generous - you're rich because of your luckiness in being born in a coutnry rich in natural resources, your brute force in defence, and your overwhelming trading power. You are a nation of parasites (and ignorant to boot!)
Yahoo , 04.05.2005, 2:18am link
We should help others because we are all connected.
No tree is so foolish to have branches that fight amongst each other.
We are equal cells in this body called humanity. This is why we should help each other.
Mr X , 04.05.2005, 2:35am link
Everyone who comes into our lives is valuable, and has something to teach us. The petty tyrants arre just valuable as those who love and support us. The petty tyrants are divine masters here to teach you a lesson you didn't know you have to learn. Ignoring them will guarantee more will show up in your life to teach and/or re-teach you the lesson . Life gives us exams, and will repeat the exam until you pass and move on to the next level.

Sierra, read this beautiful poem by Emily Dickinson. Absorb it, and you will be on the path to enlightenment. I would be honoured to have you on this path with me. The real Sierra (spirit) can see through the false Sierra who has been writing on this website.

This quiet Dust was Gentleman and Ladies
And Lads and Girls --
Was laughter and ability and Sighing
And Frocks and Curls.

This Passive Place a Summer's nimble mansion
Where Bloom and Bees
Exists an Oriental Circuit
Then cease, like these
Mr X , 04.05.2005, 2:48am link
Yahoo....you must be nuts if you thinks the US is not generous.

How do you suppose we got that overwhelming trading power? Through democracy - by creating a broad middle class instead of concentrating wealth in a few "royal" places.


There is no god. Live free and prosper.

D
Sierra [Email], 04.05.2005, 4:30am link
That is so fuckin funny. I knew they were dunb but...damn.
anti-bible bitch [Email], 04.05.2005, 4:38am link
yah, i don't hate christians, but i basically became an atheist after i saw one of my friends get abused by others for being a wiccan. i basically lost faith in the bible, etc, after that. i cant hate anyone, its pretty much a waste of time. one of my goals in life is to first put a stop to predjudice in my town the move on to the world. i have a long way to go.

and for that matter,the whole iron thing, there plenty of it in asteroids, and comets and meteroites as well. its a big universe. and one of my current working theories of how we all got here basically refers to Proddesor Hawkins, and various other theories me and my friends have compiled over a period of time.

Once again, i do not hate christians. i cannot hate anyone. i dislike the feeling of anger or hatred and i do have plenty of christian frineds.

i look forward to talking to you Mr.X again, this is beginning to get faily interesting.

and as for my wrath, just another goal for me to overcome. pretty hard when you're in high school and you your friends get kicked for supporting gay rights.
CJ , 04.05.2005, 5:04am link
"How do you suppose we got that overwhelming trading power? Through democracy - by creating a broad middle class instead of concentrating wealth in a few "royal" places"

Yup, that and the US govt providing massive subsidies to, for example, US rice or cotton growers, who then dump all their extra produce on third world countries (who were told to grow rice and cotton as cash crops) where, because of the subsidies, the US produce in cheaper (and, of course, due to this type of protectionism, the third world countries can't sell their produce in the US either). As a result of this all the local farmers go out of business, no local food is grown, money stops flowing and slowly but surely aid replaces the original produce.

Great system, that.

Oh, and as for the US saving Britain's ass in WWII, please remind me where exactly the US helped during the Battle of Britain? Far as I remember it (from my history lessons, I wasn't there) it was British and Commonwealth (i.e. thanks Canada) pilots who repulsed the Luftwaffe in the summer of 1940, thereby causing the planned seaborne invasion (operation Sea Lion, I think) to be cancelled.

Now, if you wanted to rant on about the US saving the rest of western Europe's ass in WWII, you might have a point
bogue , 04.05.2005, 5:14am link
Mr X, ina nother post you made in another topic, you said that debating the existance of god simply proves he exists? would you say the god and goddess of wicca exists?
the pagan gods exist, the greek gods, the nordic mythology, the hindu gods exist as well as the buhdda?
i will remind everyone caring to listen once again that the idea of christianity is 5,000 years old. wicca's roots is sbout 100,000 years older. unless wiccan ancestors didn't need air when 'god' came along, i can be sure that there would be a great time distortion between the christian point of veiw and the wiccans. besides, witches influenced the christians ideas of satan and demons becuase the witches symbol of the god (dude who works with nature in general) was painted inside old churhces by witches so they cpuld keep to their own faith and pray infront of christians and get away with it.

Religion is a way to veiw the world. it justs works better with some people then others. so far my way works just fine for me.

all due respect, CJ
CJ , 04.05.2005, 5:17am link
thanks bogue
Yahoo , 04.05.2005, 5:21am link
How do you suppose we got that overwhelming trading power? Through democracy - by creating a broad middle class instead of concentrating wealth in a few "royal" places.

Because when you stole the country from the Native Americans (whose health and welfare is amongst the worst in the world - where is the 'generosity') and forced them to live on reservations, you found a country rich in natural resources, which allowed for low investment "trading". Bogue has explained your system of "subsidies"

You have no clue
Yahoo , 04.05.2005, 5:23am link
Hey Bogue:

"Oh, and as for the US saving Britain's ass in WWII, please remind me where exactly the US helped during the Battle of Britain? Far as I remember it (from my history lessons, I wasn't there) it was British and Commonwealth (i.e. thanks Canada) pilots who repulsed the Luftwaffe in the summer of 1940, thereby causing the planned seaborne invasion (operation Sea Lion, I think) to be cancelled."

That is why I would never abandon the UK. That whole battle of Brittian was one ass-kicking display of resolve. Plus, surviving that Blitz thing was cool too.

That said, lets team up again and wipe the terrorist losers and the islamers off the face of the earth.

There is no god. Britania rules the waves.


D
Sierra [Email], 04.05.2005, 5:51am link
Ok sorry Coolspot i agree with you on most things but you clearly know nothing about the South African goverments stand on the AIDS issue. I do because i am South African, so let me enlighten you. The goverments is most certainly not opposed to condoms in fact you can get them for free in any state run clinic. They are opposed to anti-retroviral drugs the reason they have given for this is that they are untested. The actual reason is probably that it would cost the goverment way way to much to supply them to our huge population of hiv/aids infected people.
Hell Lad , 04.05.2005, 10:20am link
Wahoo yahoo well said m8.
Hell Lad [Email], 04.05.2005, 10:25am link
I don't have time to read all 130 comments so I apologise if this is repeating what has already been said, but back at post #24 ish Mr X said "Sierra, in base 10 arithmetic, 2+2 =4, in base 2, 2+2 = 0 (mod 2), in base 3, 2+2 = 1(mod3). I have a degree in mathematics and computer science."

Now I don't have a degree in mathematics or computer science, but to me this doesn't add up, if you pardon the pun...

In Base 2(10) + 2(10) = 4 (100), where does "0" come into this? in Base 3 2(2) + 2(2) = 4 (11)again not 1... did you get your degrees at a seminary school? did you also get your degree in advanced bullshit there too?
Redfrdsaid [Email][Home], 04.05.2005, 4:04pm link
All I know is that if I have two bullshit filled bibles and then I get two more crap filled bibles I have a stack of 4 books that contain complete bullshit.

In a BASE BULLSHIT system (which religion is) it looks like this:

2(B) + 2(B) = 4 (BULLSHIT!!!!)

Its all bullshit!!!

There is no god. It does not add up.

D
Sierra [Email], 04.05.2005, 5:05pm link
Sierra glad to see youve gone back to something you know (religion bashing) instead of spouting your badly concieved political bullshit.
Hell Lad , 04.05.2005, 5:50pm link
The US of A is probably the biggest threat to peace the world had ever known. Right now your military capabilities and technology far surpass that of any other country. The US is the world's largest manufacturer of weapons systems. You engineer the collapse of democratically elected governments and replace them with dictatorships more conducive towards your own interests. You are the only country to have started not one but two wars within the first 5 years of the 21st century. 3000 Americans died during 911 and you call it terrorism, more than 100,000 iraqis and afgans died and you call it collateral damage. You try to maintain a good business relationship with the PRC, while you authorise the sale of the latest weapons systems to Taiwan, and publicly pledge to defend it at all costs even though you still don't officially recognise the ROC. You made a loud diplomatic hoo-ha when one of your spy planes whilst brazenly flying off the ocast of China collided with a PRC fighter and crash-landed in Hainan and then had the cheek to demand (Demand!) a public apology from the PRC, whilst ignoring the rhetorical scenario of what you would have done if the chinese had sent a spy plane off YOUR coast. But of course the US is a bastion of truth and justice and freedom and China is only a backward dictatorship so THAT doesn't count. All your pretenses regarding the invasion of Afganistan and Iraq were just that, pretenses, why did it take you 4 years to 'orchestrate' the end of the massacre and genocide in the Balkans and only 6 months to mobilise hundreds of thousands of troops for the liberation of Kuwait (Saddam Hussein, evil though he is, refrained from wholesale slaughter of the Kuwaitis)? Now we see the same modus operandi with regards to Darfur, where the US, with your overwhelming urge to liberate the oppressed Afghans and Iraqis and anyone 'lucky' enough to live in oil-rich areas, are once again leaving defenseless civilians to rot. Next time you decide to invade another Midle Eastern country please tell it as it is and just say you're going for the oil, you're not fooling anyone with the 'liberation' business and at least your bible-thumping president could tell the truth instead of lying for once and therefore improve his chances of not going to hell. I could go on and on but my tea's getting cold.

While I am no fan of the Islamic fundamentalists, please keep in mind that the US through your weapons proliferation and political manipulation of thrid world countries and military adventurism had destroyed more lives than terrorists ever could.
Lundie , 04.05.2005, 5:52pm link
sorry...The above was directed at sierra and all you stereotypical arrogant americans reading this.
Lundie , 04.05.2005, 6:13pm link
Yeah...I know...and we built all that stuff to take over the world, right?

I mean it wasn't be 15 years ago that we still had the cold war. I mean its not like there was ever a Berlin wall or anything like that.

N. Korea is the way it is because they are afraid of the US taking them over, right. I see that.

We are free beacuse we are armed to be free.

We try to make the world better.


There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 04.05.2005, 6:58pm link
comes to mind, today me and a friend got involved ina n argument with this girl about religion, and she promptly said we were wrong and that christianity is the only way to go.
my friend without missing a beta stated a passage from the bible (ludacris or something) about not touching pig skin and selling your daughters as sex slves. doesn't sound like a good eal to me, but i'll have to check on that whole ludacris thingy.

freedom of speech and thanks for lsitneing again.
CJ , 04.05.2005, 10:13pm link
yah. america needs to get back on track. when i heard that goerge bush got elected, i yelled "Lyle, we're running to canada!"
that got a few good laughs, but basically also in the argument as i stated above, the girl and a few hard core christians said that america is a christian nation. to quote sierra:BULLSHIT.

of the 53 signers of the constitution, three were christian. the rest were theists (tell me if i spell this wrong)
Deists, atheists, etc. and apparently goerge washington died an atherist as well.

once again open to opinion, CJ
CJ , 04.05.2005, 10:18pm link
who here remembers that pascal guy? he has few points on things. we are over populated, and if any one here has seen Monty Python: The Meaning of Life, they have a part of a catholic house with a hundred children. couldn't help but to remember that. it also comes to mind: if anyone has heard this story about whre a teacher questions his student about god, about light and dark, war, and cold, good and evil.
the teacher says that if god created the world, he created evil, thus god was evil. the kid said evil is the absense of god.

so my question is, where has god been all these years? becuase last i checked, god is everywhere. god is all knowing all seeing diety-o-power, yet he got angry when people killed his kid! and in so many stories there are predictions about the future and *gasp!* they came true! every single prediction by moses and jesus and god came true, and only jesus foresaw being nailed to a lamp post.looks like either god has a short term memory or he isn't as powerful as the 2000 year old book makes him out to be.
he (if he should somehow exist) needs to turn off the T.V. and get back to good 'ol smiting (not literally, but you get what i mean)

all due respect and opinion welcoming, CJ
CJ , 04.05.2005, 10:38pm link
Redfred,
when we say that 2+2 = 1 (mod3), it means that there exists and integer k, such 4 can be expressed as 3*k + 1, ie when you divide 3 into 4 you get a remainder of 1, or 4 = 3(1) + 1.
If you are still interested, take a course in elementary number theory. Math is beautiful, a gift from God.
You are used to adding, subtracting in base 10, try doing in base 5.

Exercise for you:

7 + 5 = ? (mod 5)

I am master of my life, the architect of my own future.

God is within, perfect without error. The universe is perfect, we come into now-here from no where precisely on time, and exit back to no-where precisely on time.
Mr X , 04.05.2005, 11:47pm link
CJ my brother, there is joy and woe in this world. It is part of the perfection of it all, but so is my desire to change the woe in to joy.
I will go with my desire to make this world a better place.
Do not judge God, for God knows what she is doing. The universe is on purpose, and we are here to fulfill our mission.
I have no fear because I know who walks beside me every day.
Mr X , 04.05.2005, 11:51pm link
Emily Dickinson is a wonderful poet. The poem I posted in title a single hound. Do you understand what she is trying to say. We are quiet dust, here to fulfil our circuit, and return back to dust.

God is within.

X
Mr X , 04.05.2005, 11:53pm link
Mr.X

i too try to shape woe into joy. i just do it in a way that works better for me. i do not have fear in the world becuase a 2000 year old god walks beside me.

i do not fear because i have a voice, and it gets louder everyday, and every day it is heard through the town.
i have helped in stopping predjudice towards gays and lesbians, and now i work towards religion, and remind people we have a voice. a voice more powerful then all the books and holy symbols and governments and weapons and slurs in this painful world.the voice is just harder to find and weild then a Ak-47. i found mine on the bottom of my shoe (long story) yes i do judge god, but i cannot judge other humans or anthing else on this planet in this system in this galaxy in this universe.

i live to ask, and god is my question. god is my debate.

still an atheist and all due respect, CJ


ps, did you get the name Mr.X from the simpsons? the one where Homer starts a website?
CJ , 05.05.2005, 12:17am link
oh another thing, when soe people say where is god, and christians reply everyewhere, working his mircales? like the virgin amry in the car tunnel? some mircale, i heard there was a car wreck when an out of towner saw the wll and stared till he crashed into an 18-wheeler and go snadwiched between that and a VW buggy.

and the sandwich that sold for a couple K cuz it had the virgin mary on it?
can i make a couple grand as well if i drew the virgin mary on my bathroom pass and turned it back to the teacher saying "oh, by the way, that virgin girl is on the hallpass?" probably not. there are many things that look like the virign mary. if youfound an eraser smudge on your paper that looked like a cross would it be holy?

oh, and a cool thing i learned from my wiccan friend.
if you makea perfect pentagram, and took the pentagram in the middle and the number of sides, and do an easy equation (i forget what it is, i haven't talked about that thingy for months) the answer is "Phi" a number found all around the place in nature (8. something or another)i honestly think the wiccans are onto something here, becuase they basically all down to the simple components revere anture, and their pentagram is the ultimate holy symbol of nature.

pretty neat if you ask me.

all due respect and longing for some french fries, CJ.
CJ , 05.05.2005, 12:31am link
hey, about what UK girl said way up on the lsit, america is experiencing a "smart gene" as me and my friends put it. we're able to see through the lies that are so carefully weaved throughout our home, and we disapprove of it. we hate predjudice, none of us are fat, and we are the only ones to realize at our school of a thousand and a half kids or more, that america is NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION. only three of the fifty three signers of the constitution were christian, the rest were atheists, theists, deists, etc.

me and my friends dislike goerge bush, he is destroying all we have worked for in our young lives, like the right to gay marriege. we've worked ahrd to ensure that predjudice becomes a thing of the past and that you can tip your hat toa gay man without being shot by a bored gangster.

i actually wrote a poem about how america needs to find another way. if some1 can tell me how to post it, that be super. had it in my comp for a long time, and only recently has it began to attract attention.

your voice is the strongest weapon. let it be heard. CJ
CJ , 05.05.2005, 12:46am link
CJ, I would lover to read your poem.
What your for empowers you and what your against weakens you. Be for gay and lesbian rights rather than against prejudice. When Mother Theresa was asked if she would march against the war in vietnam, she said no, however if you have a march for peace , I'll be there.
I don't know why I choose Mr. X for my name on this website. It just came to me.
When I say GOd, I mean the invisible intellience that permeates everything in this universe. I don't know what you call it, but it's there. God is within, you need to look inward to know God. God has no religion, and does not belong to any religion. A holy being is one who is without hatred and prejudice. I'm far from this, but am trying hard to become one. I've moved away from religious dogma to the new-age. My higher-self is beginning to rule and I'm moving away from ego (earth guide only).
Mr X , 05.05.2005, 2:57am link
yeah, i can agree with you on how you veiw your god. you have something going there for you. and for the gay and lesbian rights thing, the day of silence was great, we got alot of thumbs up as well as insults. it felt gratifying to show what you think without fear of being beaten. we had a shout out at the end of the day in the middle of the town, and me and about twenty other people (we have many more people then that in the gay-straight alliance)and we screamed BREAK THE SILENCE! it was gratifying even with the bruises some kids gave us.

what i'm against is there for me to over come, and what i over come makes me stronger. its something to work against and to occupy my time.

i speak for peace, not violence by the way. can't stand the stuff.
but aside from that when i dig up my poem and finish it up (various things to change and to add in/ remove) i'll type it up.
CJ , 05.05.2005, 4:35am link
and why are we still using this message board? it seems to be our only way of talking.
i'm against perdjudice (to put it short) becuase i'm saying i'm all for the end of unfair judgement upon people just because they're from mexico or my closet (i have just about everything in my closet. i think found a car engine in there once. may have been a motorcycle engine really.)
i want to better yet (these are my goals in life) end the discrimination against race, ethnic background, bring religous understanding, and other minor things we quarrel about on this confused planet called earth.

if you read the HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy, it'll say that the reason earth never really got anywhere nowadays, is that we're more concerned with the transfer of green bits of papaer then stopping wars.

i'm in for a busy lifetime. but if i can stop at least one of those things, i'll die happy.
CJ , 05.05.2005, 4:44am link
sorry, just to defend an earlier point i made here (the posts have really sprung up!) when i said solve world hunger withthe iraq war money, i WAS taking into account transportation. in fact, there is enough food in the world already to do it, but no means of supply.
Latin_lover [Email], 05.05.2005, 8:47am link
the number 'phi' yeah I think I read that in Da vinci's code apparently everything on earth is derived in some way from the number 'phi'. Kinda freaky huh.

The thing about religion is, I can't understand why religious people can't leave other people the hell alone. I mean, if you look back through history, it was always the religious types who start wars in the name of God, Torture and burn people at the stake in the name of God, rape and plunder in the name of God, Massacre innocent people in the name of God etc. etc. (communism doesn't count, Marxism-Leninism IS a God and a very jealous one at that). I mean, It's all right if you want to believe in Yahweh or Jesus or Allah or Krishna or Buddha and you feel comfortable believing in it. The trouble starts when you EXPECT other people to believe in the same thing and would not tolerate other people's beliefs and values. Look at me, I don't believe in any particular religion yes, but at the same time I don't murder, I don't steal (that cookie jar thing was a long looong time ago), I don't commit adultery, I don't bomb abortion clinics and I most definitely DO NOT get all preachy and try to impose MY set of beliefs on others. On the other hand you've got the purportedly religious types who to this day and age are still getting on with their old tricks like suicide bombing, attacking other people's places of worship, bombing abortion clinics, massacring people of other faiths etc. And being the anti-American that I am I can't help but take a shot at Bush, the ever so religious man who lies on a daily basis, covets his neighbour's oil and resources and commits mass-murder in order to secure them, takes God's name in vain by invoking him countless times, (what makes him think he'll get special treatment? Oh right, it must have been because he still managed to be President despite actually LOSING his first election, Thank YOU Lord!) worships money and intentionally gave false evidence of WMD among other outrages. Wow, how many commandments was ThAt?

No offense but I just don't trust bible/koran/(insert scripture here)-thumping types. They find ways to bend their interpretation of scripture to suit their own needs and get all aggressive when other people's interpretations differ from theirs. Perhaps its because they take their cue from their own deity/prophets, I mean, look at the Old testament, don't tell me that the good Lord did not commit abortion when he flooded the world and destroyed it, oh yeah maybe he created an inter-dimensional portal and magically transported all the foetuses to another world where they could be happy and free! That'll explain everything! Would I want to believe in a deity that breaks his own steadfast rules?
And what does the Bible say about incest? If Adam and Eve were the first people on earth who the hell did Cain screw to get HIS decendants (A pastor when trying to convert me actually said that the prohibition against incest actually came about 417 years after when there were enough people on earth! He was so serious it was all I could do to keep from laughing!)?
Lundie , 05.05.2005, 9:53am link
i have to agree with you lundie. alot of religions bend things and mutilate them to serve their own needs, and it sickens me when they think that just becuase they think they're going to heaven means they can basically bitch bitch bitch about things other religions ae doing wrong. what the hell ever happened to "Love thy neighbor?" its the one commandment of the eleven (jesus gave that one i think)that is ignored by christians (to avoid furute confusion, i don't differentiate between chrisians and catholics, etc. they're all in the same boat, which i might add, is sinking quite fast nowadays.)


wanna know something funny? you know how musims (i think its them) claim that in heaven you get seventy virgins? there may have been a mistranslation. here it is:

Muslim:I just suicide bombed a convoy of clothes! where are my virgins? lets get started!

Angel thingy:Here are your seventy desert raisins!

does anyone here realize how much that suck to die to get to heaven and instead of getting virgins you get 70 raisins? 70 frikkin' raisins. bad trade if you ask me.
CJ , 05.05.2005, 10:14pm link
Religous types are assholes because all faiths command their nitwitted followers to "serve god".

The problem lies in knowing what 'god" wants.

THAT is where the trouble starts.

There is no god. Serve yourself.

D
Sierra [Email], 05.05.2005, 10:17pm link
i missed my chance to mkae a PS: i disapprove of bush. the election to get him into office the first time i have a chaos theory it was rigged by power hungry polititians.
and why the tax cuts? they're nice and all, but is he trying to keep us blind? i think so. mind you thats my theory.

still a layed back atheist, CJ
CJ , 05.05.2005, 10:17pm link
seventy lousy gad damn rasins. why raisins? why not something more exciting like a dead dog stapled to your forehead? now that make for great conversation at least then 70 raisins.
CJ , 05.05.2005, 10:19pm link
Thank you, Hell Lad... I wasn't quite sure whether I had been misinformed about that...
Is it that way everywhere in the country?
I know South Africa has huge problems with AIDS, I'm not entirely sure why anymore... the discouraging use of condoms thing seemed plausible to me, so I believed it (meaning I didn't just make it up, I was misinformed/underinformed)
I heard something about it being necessary to get more prescription drugs to help alleviate the AIDS problem in SA somewhere, not sure it was here... but I have a question about that: The longer those with AIDS live, the more people they will probably infect, so in the long run wouldn't it be better to not give them the drugs they need to not die from the disease?
coolspot , 05.05.2005, 10:52pm link
Thank you, Hell Lad... I wasn't quite sure whether I had been misinformed about that...
Is it that way everywhere in the country?
I know South Africa has huge problems with AIDS, I'm not entirely sure why anymore... the discouraging use of condoms thing seemed plausible to me, so I believed it (meaning I didn't just make it up, I was misinformed/underinformed)
I heard something about it being necessary to get more prescription drugs to help alleviate the AIDS problem in SA somewhere, not sure it was here... but I have a question about that: The longer those with AIDS live, the more people they will probably infect, so in the long run wouldn't it be better to not give them the drugs they need to not die from the disease?
coolspot , 05.05.2005, 10:52pm link
70 frikkin raisns...
anyways i am american and i got bored today so i decided to read some of the posts overhead. america is indeed, fat, loud, rude obnoxious, and has the emotional matuarity of a 14 year old drunk (seen 'em before. not pretty, but that could be becuase he was trying to make a move on the girls across the field at a football game after pissing off a senior body-builder)

i'm an owner of the famous/infamous Green day American Idiot CD. for this i have been called traitor by my boyscout troop. i reminded them that this is america, i can say whatever the FUCK i want, as long as i can take rsponsibility for its actions.

i for one think we need to open up in middle east schools diversity/ tolerance classes so that the first time one of the children meets a black man, he doesn't whip out a pistol and promptly shoot him. then again we need these back in america, but we can't change everyone's veiw on things, jst make them see our point of veiw.

i still sorta wanted John Kerry to win. they did a survey, and the states that voted for John Kerry had an average IQ of 101+, while the states that voted for Goerge Bush had an average IQ of 100 and below.

-i don't feel any shame, i won't apoligize. Green Day, jesus of suburbia

so long and later days from the idiot nation, CJ.

PS-I still can't beleive that though. so funny

Muslim: Where are my virgins?

Angel: Here are you raisns!
CJ , 06.05.2005, 4:56am link
Thats what I figured....CJ is a 15 year old Boy Scout with no concept of the world he lives in.

When you political philosophy comes from your favorite band....well...enough said.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 06.05.2005, 5:47am link
That'll be a laff...

Angel: Welcome to paradise, enjoy your raisins! Next!

Dead terrorist: ......That's it? I was waiting for the punchline. The Prophet sez that there wuz gonna be a celestial shagfest when I bagged my quota of heathens and arrived in paradise! Whatever happened to me wenches then ey??

Angel: Rightttt....just a minute then mate....(speaks into the intercom).... Nope, raisins it is. Serves you right for placing your faith on an illiterate camel herder!
Lundie , 06.05.2005, 5:55am link
coolspot, I think that your views regarding the distribution of life-saving medicine to AIDS sufferers draws parallel to Hitler's policy of murdering the mentally handicapped so that their genes will not 'pollute' the Aryan race.

Once you embark on the path of denying medicine to AIDS sufferers, one can also extend the argument to the the sufferers of TB, syphillis, SARS, or any other infectious diseases! After all, the longer they live, the more people they'll infect! The only surefire way to limit the spread of AIDS is through education.

Another thing about Africa though, the Western world had poured millions upon millions of dollars in aid into the continent and yet, thus far only one or two countries had managed to drag themselves out of the vicious cycle of war and famine endemic throughout Africa. There exists a culture of blame whereby the ills of Africa today are blamed on the actions of white colonialists a half century ago. However the same thing could yet be said of Asian countries like India, Malaysia, and Singapore. Those countries had gained independence at about the same time as Africa and their economies had in some cases even managed to surpass that of their former colonial masters. All that with nary a handout from the West.

And yet you still find African leaders like Mugabe who continuously bombast the UK for the current state of Zimbabwe even though HE was the one who ruined the country through his inept economic policies! Perhaps its high time for Africa to abandon its culture of victimization and focus on how they can improve their own lot instead.
Lundie , 06.05.2005, 6:38am link
Coolspot

Ive got agree with Lundie on that. Although it might be one of the reasons the government are opposed to anti retrovirals.

Lundie

I never thought I would say anything in Mugabe s defense but alot of the shit in africa comes down to the former colonialists of Africa withdrawing and ignoring there responsibilities to their former colonies.
In Zimbabwe for instance the UK has yet to pay any of the money that was promised for the redistribution of farmland to the black population. This is what gave Mugabe the excuse to appropriate white owned farms by force and sending the economy into the downward spiral that its in. Hes still a fucking looney but that doesnt absolve the British goverment of responsibility for a state of affairs which they are responsible for at least in part.
Also in some of the former french colonies up north ( and im afraid my knowledge is sketchy at best)the French pulled out within a matter of days leaving behind noone with any expertise what so ever to maintain the infrastructure. Then of course evryone in the west could point and say "See africans are helpless without us ".
Hell Lad , 06.05.2005, 8:36am link
my political veiws do not come from a band. when i first heard them i was fairly amazed to learn that they share alot of my veiws on the world. i admire green day for being one of the few people left on this pitiful ball of mud called "earth" who know they can say whatever the fuck they want and no one can do a thing about it.

for that matter my boy scout troop is amazingly diverse. we have ahindu as our eagle scout, and after a fifteen minute argument about my atheism, they gave up and got on with their lives. and the more amazing thing is, they hate goerge bush. alot. they still decided to hate me for a while becuase i listened to a band that had a few things to say about america.

i don't take others philosiphy for my own. if i did that, the world would be an incredibly boring place to live in. i still like a good argument though.

still laughing at the idiots around me, CJ

-by the way, are you gonna finish those raisins?

by the way (Again...) boy scouts are not super christians as most beleive. we have our share of atherists and non-christians in our troop.




RAISINS!
CJ , 06.05.2005, 10:22pm link
i do have a concept of the world i live in. honestly. seriously. raisins. but green day did havea point. the media controls a majority of our sad nation. the mainstream media gave us streotypes and Schawrzeneggar (spell it right?) and for that matter, i remember a radio show called the War of the Worlds (now a book and movie) and people beleived it just becuase they heard it on their entertainment channel, then there was mass suicides all over the place, because peope thoguht that their town was going to be vaporized next. i just look at them and can't help but to think :"holy crap man, can't you ever pull your eyes away from the dial and look out the window? i don't see the alien ships melting everybody, do you?"

Pull away from the media, it can no longr save us.

Raisins... :)
CJ , 06.05.2005, 10:30pm link
lundie, the whple aids thing is now our population controller. we're rapidly approaching 7 billion people and killing for resources to feed 'em. i'm sorta hoping it'll be like the balck plague where it'll die out in a few years. i hope. and mentally handicapped people can be helped, aids can only be slowed. though there is that drug for a specific strain of aids (i think there are three strains) that slows don the virus growth so that you'd be more likely to die form old age then the infection. aids still sucks ass.

not to be a cold heartless person, but i think we really need this, our population is out fo control. i still don't like aids. never was something that only affected gays or africans. never was, never will. something my school has yet to learn. (you can see a pregnant junior once in awhile there and not give it a second thought.)
CJ , 06.05.2005, 11:17pm link
would you still argue that we "really need aids" if people in your community started dropping dead from it? if it wiped out half you family and made you an orphan? no, the fact is that AIDs and overpopulation can be solved by two things: 1: Education (also a lack of Catholicism) and 2: Contraceptives. Less unprotected sex = less populatio growth. Less unprotected sex also = less STDs.
Latin_lover [Email], 07.05.2005, 11:54pm link
You forget one thing....

With catholics god commands large familys and the religous order rejects contraception.

With poor countries, who is going to provide these contaceptives?

Your idea fails the way all ideas fail that use this premise .... that people can be "educated" to "do whats right".

Frankly, that is just as much of "forcing your ideology on others" as my whole war for oil philosophy.

Personally I want to see people fuck this planet up as much as possible. I won't live long enough to see it end but it will only come out one of three ways:


1. There is a drastic drastic reduction in the worlds population - I mean where there are 10,000 people in china and 15,000 in india - change on that order. There should be about 15 people in San Francisco and probably 30 in LA.

2. We keep going the way we are and destroy the bio-viability of this planet for everyone but bugs.

3. An asteroid wipes us all out so who cares.


You can't "educate" people to change. The US trys that politically and gets condemmed for it.

D
Sierra [Email], 08.05.2005, 1:04am link
7 billion people. we are wiping our planet clean of trees and other forms of life to make room becuase we gorge ourselves upon everything arounbd us. we throw away what can still be used (chicken bones, etc. honestly) and take more then we need. 7 billino people are going to want a home, water, medical nsurance, a job, land, anda family, and *pop!* another two kids appear in your household. watch Monty Python and the Meaning of Life. tehy have overpopulation in it. still funny :)

but the japanese had a cool system of achitecture. the honey comb system, not to mention condominieums and taller, more sturdy stacked buildings (wide, but not supr tall) could save us alot of room. i'm in favor of the stacking up the buildings like condos. they're really nice actually. been in a few before, but then again, it was hawaii. if aids can be destroyed, so be it! all we really need is small houses ike the ones you see in negihborhoods replaced (not jussay, bowling over them, like in the Hitch Hikers guide to the galaxy, where authurs house was crushed ot make a road bypass.)

enviromentally frinedly especially, since we only have say, one atmosphere we are slowly eroding, more lnad productive (more space to put things, like farms, mines, labs, etc.) get in touch with other people cuz you live right beneath them and above them, and for that matter right next to them, and of course, location location location, you can easily move into a condo next to the ocean and get a great veiw and such. though another cool thing i hope for the future is that protected sex will becoe widely accepted by everyone. "god" wanted us to prosper. not infest.

still an atheist and laughing at raisins, CJ.

comes to mind, where dd the whole "condoms are unholy!" thing come from? sounds like something made in the dark ages by the church.
CJ , 08.05.2005, 5:17am link
Although Sierra paints a pretty bleak picture, the premise for her views is fundamentally sound. All things come to an end, the laws of thermonuclear physics themselves dictate that the Universe will at some point in time end not with a War of the Gods, but rather a compression of all matter into nothingness. The Earth will at some point be consumed by an expanding sun. The laws of nature demand an eventual end for everything.

Though mankind may long have nuked themselves into extinction before the aforesaid cataclysmic events; until we do, we have an unequivocal moral responsibility towards the welfare of our fellow man and the continued well-being of our one true home and mother, Gaia.

We are poisoning Her with our nuclear waste, we dive into Her belly and rip out Her innards so that we may have steel for our weapons and oil that we may burn for our industries, we choke Her and burn Her throat with our smog, we fell Her forests, killed Her offspring, and massacred our own kind so that we may have wood for our beach huts, fur for our coats, and the power that we may wield over others. Mankind, with its endless capacity for invention and innovation that may yet prove to be Earth's and its own salvation, chooses instead to indulge in petty sectarian bickering over dwindling resources, unnatural borders, and whichever version of 'God' is best.

Man is a selfish, conceited, paradoxical creature. We proclaim our own particular Creator to be a loving and just God, and would gladly kill anyone who dares disbelieve. Politicians, who hold the reins and coffers of their respective nation-states, have the ability to pool their immense resources into finding a cure for deadly diseases, alternative energy sources and other badly-needed medication for our Earth mother, chose instead to procure vast armouries and to devise ever more efficient ways to kill their fellow man in their lust for power. We laugh and carry on as we were even though we are on the brink of a global disaster. The earth is ill, very ill, and the mind of Man is the only thing that can save or weaken it.

But hark, there now emerges a powerful movement, right before my very eyes, a movement where individuals are breaking free of the shackles of religious dogma and are refusing to subject themselves to the tyranny of lies and fear any longer.

They question the wisdom of placing unquestioning faith in an unsubstantiated, outdated and possibly fabricated document. They spend their lives, not with the appeasement of a higher power nor living in fear of eternal damnation, but in the pursuit of temporal happiness and betterment of their fellows. Free of the bonds of mental slavery, they harness their minds and devise ingenious ways to solve society's ills without fear of trespassing upon fallacious ecclesiastical boundaries. They seek and hypothesize and test and prove their theories so that we now know that the sun does not revolve around us nor dragged by a giant scarab beetle across the sky. Even as I speak they have contrived a way to harness one of the last vestiges of the supposed God's power, that they may someday breed living tissue that can be used to save lives and alleviate suffering. But STILL these people are forced to cringe and pay homage to a superior being they do not believe in and disguise their efforts for the salvation of Man in mortal fear of offending the ludicrous sensibilities of the religious!

Religion is a fallacy that demands absolute authority on the lives of its followers. It has caused incomparable suffering throughout the ages and is still the catalyst of much violence throughout the world. It's foundations are built on seas of blood and the bloated bodies of men, women, and children, both adherents and unbelievers alike. It thrives on ignorance and fear and does everything in its power to perpetuate the cycle. It dismissed scientific advances contrary to its teachings as untruths and sacriligious when the proof is plain for all to see.

Religion is a nothing but an attempt by pre-scientific humans to explain the wonders of the world around them. For these men, rain was sent by God, lightning signaled the displeasure of God, drought and starvation was the will of God, an outbreak of plague was the will of God, whether a person lived or died was God's Will. These men did not set out to create the monster that religion had become. They did not know that it was impossible for the entire world to be created in a week, or that a person rolling around on the floor speaking in 'tongues' may be having an epileptic seizure, or that having visions may be hallucinations or an indication of mental disorders. In fact it is in the nature of Man when stricken by hallucinations to concur that there is nothing wrong with themselves and therefore the hallucinations must be visions sent by a higher being. They were simply trying to explain the causes and effects of these phenomena to the best of their knowledge. There is no excuse however, for the scientifically advanced society that we'd become to be mired in the quicksand of religion any longer.

Religion stemmed from human conceit, the inability of Man to accept the notion that his conciousness, memories, emotions, and thought accrued and developed throughout a lifetime ends with his death. For him, it is inconceivable that his precious memories that are the only record of the life he had led will be lost once his brain ceases to function, and the fact that there is an ultimate end to his conciousness, unthinkable. Religion traps these vulnerable souls by spouting incredible theories of a continued plane of existence for its followers, enticing them with promises of paradise and salvation from the suffering of our daily lives. It is thus that religion, in denying that the temporal world is the ultimate reality, has placed itself in direct opposition to Man's saviour, Science.

Prayer does not empty the trash can nor does it feed the dog. Prayer does not cure Aids nor does it solve global warming. Prayer does not de-toxify our rivers and seas nor does it build space shuttles. In fact, religion, far from being Mankind's only avenue for salvation, will ultimately prove to be its suicide pact.
Lundie , 08.05.2005, 10:31am link
Very true. I would like to add: though enviromentalists get criticised as being "hippies" or "out of touch with reality", they actually make a lot of sense. I mean, the environment is an issue that transcends all politics; no environment, no humsn race. Let's say for the minute that the US is correct in its assumption that oil will last for decades, and when it does run out we will have other fossil fuels (such as the ones found by scientists), though this may put off the problem, it would actually be worse in the long run for 2 reasons: we would become (even) more dependent on it, and, if we managed to keep it going, the environment would collapse.In fact, the environment should be te most pressing issue to politicians just now, we are nearing a point-of-no-return for our resource handling.
Latin_lover [Email], 08.05.2005, 5:25pm link
And another thing, I really don't agree with Sierra's abject nihilism. We have to work with what we've got.
Latin_lover [Email], 08.05.2005, 5:28pm link
Hi, great site!

Let me throw in my two cents.

Christianity is complete bullshit!

Did you know that before this ridiculous religion arrived, there was a pagan religion called Mithrasim which was dominant in the Roman empire.

I'd like to spell out just a few of the tenents of Mithrasism. Stop me when this sounds familiar...!

1) Mithras was a man-god, born of a virgin mother, who came to save mankind.

2) He was born in a cave.

3) Mithras had 12 disciples.

4) With whom he travelled all over, preaching to men and "enlightening" them.

5) After he died, he was "resurrected" and this was celebrated by his followers every year.

6) The celebration of Christmas on December 25 was originally the pagan birthday of Mithras, the sun god, whose day of the week is still known as "Sunday."

7) He was know as "Savior," "Son of God," "Redeemer," and "Lamb of God."

I could go on but it should be obvious to anyone with half a working brain cell that Christianity is basically a pagan variant of the cult of Mithras.

How sad that so many millions of people wasted their life believing absolute rubbish!
JJ , 10.05.2005, 2:38am link
WOW!!!
getting back to the highway underpass, talked to the homeless wino who lives under that highway and he told me he did that bit of artwork on just a quart of wine and that if I gave him a gallon he would piss me the last supper!!
william , 10.05.2005, 4:05pm link
jj where did you get your info?, hope it is a better source then the bible!!
william , 10.05.2005, 4:26pm link
sorry CJ, i know that not all americans are wankers, you seem like the only decent one!!It's just people like Sierra who get a kick out of putting other people down to make themselves feel better who annoy me most!
UK girl , 10.05.2005, 6:00pm link
check this link out for a laugh about hte new religion!

http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4119
Yahoo , 11.05.2005, 12:17am link
I only get a kick out of "putting down" two types of people:

1. The religous gody types.
2. Garden variety islamers.

Its too bad we can't come up with a virus to kill off all of both.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 11.05.2005, 1:12am link
Tim,
Sierra is the biggest moron on this website.
At least Mr. X didn't advocate genocide like this mental case.
Sierra's commentary is amusing
Timnot4me , 11.05.2005, 2:58am link
They advocate genocide.

The christians have historically and still do try to eliminate any group of non-christians they find. That is the whole concept behind "missionaries" and the idea of "spreading the word".

The islamers are even more direct. They claim THEIR silly god-farce commands them to KILL anyone who is not islamic.


If these are not examples of genocide I don't know what is.

If its good enough for me, why isn't it good enough for them? Why should we sit around yanking on the "diversity" udder waiting for something other than the traditional death and suffering to drip out.

There is no god. Death to his followers.

D
Sierra [Email], 11.05.2005, 4:14am link
Sierra

So now you,christians and muslims advocate genocide. I think youll find Timnot4me was saying that MR.X doesnt.
Your still missing the point which is : genocide wether or not your a christian or muslim or whatever form of facism it is that you subscribe to is bad. Its not really a difficult concept to grasp, everyone else seems to have, so what the fuck is wrong with you ? Are you fucking stupid ?
Its bad because if you are incapable of feeling compassion for your fellow human beings then youre a fucking sociopath and should be put somewhere secure for your own safty.
Religeous genocidal maniac = NOT A GOOD THING
Secular genocidal maniac = NOT A GOOD THING
Hell Lad , 11.05.2005, 7:26pm link
It may be bad, but is it wrong?

Look, you forget that this is what they want to do to us.

The one thing you miss completely is that, thanks in part (or mostly) because of religion we are reaching levels of human population that this planet simply can not support. In the next 100 years it will become a critical issue. Economic issues just make this problem worse.


There are only two options:

1. We ALL die.
2. A lot of people die.

Thats it.

I'm rooting for #2 and hope that it is visited on those most deserving.

Thats all I am saying. In the fight for resources and (ultimately) life, I would like to deprive the islamers of that first. In that way I give them a dose of their philosophy. I am sure they will understand.

There is no god.


D
Sierra [Email], 11.05.2005, 8:38pm link
thanks UK girl. and JJ is right. i didn't know about christianity being based off a pagan religion, but i know paganism came THOUSANDS of years before christianity. come to mind, is sierra really that hateful of anyone not like him? seems kinda pointless to hate someone for their beleifs even though they've brought alot of bad things, but to want them all to die, even the ones that you haven't met, and devide them into typical media stereotypes is one of the things that defines bible thumnpers, who hate people for their beliefs.

Sierra=hates others, even people he hasn't met for their beleifs.

Bible thumper= hates others, even people they haven't met for their beleifs.

I always was a little slow on the uptake, but i'm beginning to sense a connection here.

i can't ahte anyone for their beleifs. chrisitanity doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of entering my life, but i wont ahte them for it.

greetings from the IDIOT NATION, CJ.

open your eyes and look around. the media can no longer save us. read my post i put up earlier about the radio show and the war of the worlds. Date is 6.05.05.

PS. my friends mom is a lesbian and she has a bumper sticker that says "lord, protect from your followers."
CJ , 11.05.2005, 10:47pm link
I don't hate people. I just state facts and goals.

Let me give you an example. Based on their culture, religion or whatever, some people in arab places (and probably others) mutilate the genitals of girls.

I don't "hate" these people. At the same time I am not going to spend a lot of time trying to understand these people or their beliefs.

I see a world of absolutes. Some things transcend culture etc.

These practices are a universal wrong.

So is religion.

Especially is islam.

I don't hate these people, but I want the threat the pose eliminated.

Show me a way besides eliminating them.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 12.05.2005, 6:46am link
Your problem, Sierra, is that you are so convinced that the only way to deal with these people is to destroy them. As I have said countless times, this is IMPOSSIBLE. No-one has the military might to destroy these people (and evenif they did, fighting would only generate more of them). I appreciate your earlier argument that the US is always blamed, no matter what they do, but this is because, as we have all been arguing, they never do so out of purely altruistic reasons. It always seems that their intervention will reap some benefits for themselves. And you cannot simply expect that the odd act of benevolence will establish you as a beloved nation, it takes more. And before you complain that you have no obligation to help these people, you are wrong. Humans interact, andtake vengeance on those they think deserve it. Helping other nations will help yourself (ie. by reducing terrorist attacks on soldiers and civilians). As for resources, they will run out eventually no matter how many people you slaughter. The focus now must be on finding renewable alternatives.
Latin_lover [Email], 12.05.2005, 12:41pm link
Seirra you refuse to admit that the planet could support the human race as it is now or is going to be in a hundred years.
Im of the oppinion that it could but not in the preavailing socio economic climate that is imposed on us by the US and the other powerful nations.
It is a fact that there is enough food produced to feed the entire population of the world. And it is also true that the polution that is killing us all is caused by 1st world nations.
The american dream is whats killing the world.
"well kill em all take their land and go there on vacation " - Rage Against the Machine.
I think its fair to wonder who is more deserving of elimination the people who are responsible for the sorry state of affairs or those who are powerless to iniate real change in the world in which they live ?
Terrorism can never be justified but I can understand why some people feel its there only way to make themselves heard.
The US shouldve taken it as a wake up call instead going nuts.
Hell Lad , 12.05.2005, 12:55pm link
Name one country that does things for purely altruistic reasons. The US is probably closer to that state than any other nation.

Believe me, 9/11 was a wakeup call.

The US is bad news, I'll admit. We go around preaching freedom, donating food and money and insisting that people try to clean up the world and live in peace.

Bad traits.

After all, our on-going spat with Cuba is only because we need more beach-front property on which to vacation.


I personally think that we SHOULD leave much of the world alone. When bodies float down rivers in Africa we should "respect their culture".

If thats how they want to live, we should accept it. We should apply that logie to things like the abuse and mutilation of women in arab nations, racial violence in africa, starvation, the african aids problem, communism, etc.

There should be no "human rights"....just american rights if you are luck enough to make it to the US (which should close its borders).

Think about it for a moment. What do you think people are saying when they whine about "human rights violations" in their countries. They are saying "my country is so fucked up my own government is trying to kill me and I need help to exist".

The US steps in and tries to help and then when the problem is fixed we are told we interefere.

Personally I have no problem with german concentration camps. If that was how Europe wanted to live we should have respected that in the 1940s.

I see nohting wrong with the berlin wall. If thats the way people want to live, its fine with me. God forbid I interfere.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 12.05.2005, 3:53pm link
Rubbish. The US commits one of the lowest percentages of its GDP to the developing countries, and usually only does that when it can turn a profit. US foreign and economic policies can make thousands destitute (for example NAFTA, which ad a terrible effect on many South American nations. The idea of the US as the innocent victims is utter bollocks.
Latin_lover [Email], 12.05.2005, 5:00pm link
Not only did NAFTA have a terrible effect on S. America but it had a role in causing thousands of Americans to lose their jobs. It also may be ther reason that the dollar has lost so much of its value in the past few years.
ckb , 12.05.2005, 9:03pm link
Thats bullshit. Make sure you add in the cost we spend keeping the North Koreans out of South Korea, the Chinese out of Taiwan, The Soviet Union out of Europe, ... what else ... fixing that little Balkan problem, starving Ethopians, Somalia, Tsunamis... on and on.

Plus, a smaller percentage of our GDP on charity is still a HUGE friggin amount.

Nafta was a disaster. We are responsible for that. The american people are to be held accountable for the decisions we make. If people are stupid enough to go for something like NAFTA, they deserve what they get.


All these "destitute" nations could play ball with the US and improve their lot. If you insist on having a taliban-like nation they you will probably end up getting screwed.

You watch. When China gets done, it is going to look a LOT like the US.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 12.05.2005, 9:28pm link
yep. we are so FRIKKING SCREWED. at the rate we consume our resources, we would've run out of pertroleum in 500 years to produce plastic. little scary if you ask me. i think that if we should do something about world population, we should do the whole condominium thing i stated earlier. a few pictures done with digital art gave me a good veiw of what i think would be super for the human race.

comes to mind, why do we help other people save lives when they are so intent on destroying all they've worked to build?

The US needs to get its priorities stragiht and clear. i love US for one thing: the rights. i can say whatever the FUCK i want and no one is basically aloud to stop me from saying i think goerge bush is a lousy president. call me crazy, but i think Clinton was much better. when Clinton lied, nobody died.

and for that matter, while the US is bitching about the mistakes of others, we're falling quickly behind the other nations. ten years, and china could easily become a stronger nation, same with japan, and i;ll bet the first thought in everyone's mind about these new USs is
"Oh dear god, they're multiplying!"

US needs to get back on track, and really needs to start doing things that aren't an illusion on TV.

the last thing i want america to be is like every other nation. up till 1990, we really had something going for us. but now our nation has the emotional maturity of a fourteen year old drunk. long story.

i say we should keep human rights on this one thing: you move to germany, and you're technically not a civilian of germany for the first few years. but look outside your window, and you'll probably see the mob staring at their watches right outside your home, pitchforks and torches.

No more oil for blood, we got our own battles to fight on our own soil, no more psychological warfare to trick into thinking we aint loyal. look at his eyes, the stars and stripes have swiped, washed out and wiped, replaced with his own face, mosh now or die, if i get sniped tonight, you'll know why, cuz i told you to fight. -Eminem (the now mature one) mosh, when he's outside Goerge's office.
it's really true. we only really seem t want the middle east for il, and in return, pay in blood, when we have problems over here that we need to focus on. goerge bush is the face of america, one face i would love to hit with a car.

Done ranting now. rough day.

One Nation controlled by the media, CJ.


RAISINS!
CJ , 13.05.2005, 12:23am link
oh another thing (not done yet!) if someone wants our help they should ask us, that way we wont releive the middle east war where we barged in, guns blazing becuase of some street violence. they want our help, ask for it then.

-idiot Nation, CJ
CJ , 13.05.2005, 12:26am link
put on your speakers, God!
Cheers
Professor Harry G. Bullshit McLuhan.
TURE SJOLANDER [Email][Home], 14.05.2005, 12:52am link
i'm so confused about what just happened...

Living in the age of paranoia, CJ
CJ , 14.05.2005, 1:09am link
where's mr.x? did e scare him off? if so, the yams will be pleased...(luahgs menacingly)

ps, i always was the odd one at school. better then being like anyone else.

IDIOT AMERICA!
CJ , 14.05.2005, 1:20am link
Hi CJ, no one has scared me off. Tim doesn't believe in anyone promoting spiritual growth. I've been busy this week and have to head to New York tommorow for business.

Go within and know God. Do not listen to the ego voice of Sierra, there are enough resources to support us on this planet. Communication will resolve grievances. The human race will embrace spirit, and move away from ego. Let your higher self rule CJ, I can feel you a spiritual person.
Mr. X , 14.05.2005, 1:42am link
Hey, CJ...you confused about Professor Harry G. Bullshit McLuhan's post? If so, I'm right there with you, pal.

Wow. Nearly 200 posts in this thread, and me not visiting because I've been helping my mother all (blankity blank) week. Will I ever catch up? Will I even try? Doubt it. Too tired.
dropinin , 14.05.2005, 1:55am link
Mr.X is starting to scare me. and i'm still an atheist. i cannot love a angry, emotion controlled, women hating god. not now, not ever. do not try to convert me to the christianity way. there ae more effective and productive things you can do other then try to change my veiws. like teaching a dog how to play Jimi Hendrix. that you have a chance of succeeding with. if i choose to change, then i'll do so, and i'll choose whats best for me. and Sierra is not my mentor or anything like that.

the ultimate power on this world that we can take for granted is the power of the human mind. i beleive in evolution, not a god who says to sell your duaghters into sex slavery and that women are unclean. read leviticus, i did when i was 8, and thats where i found the kink in religions armor.

yeah, and if anyone can explain the post by bullshit up there, please do so. i'm so confused.

i am my higher self. i don't follow this god becuase i feel degraded. "we are weak but he is strong" was a verse from a hymnal i heard once. basically, all things considdered, god is simply a bully. very degrading.

He says down with other religions cuz they're wrong and sinful, women are inferior, do what i say or i'll kill you and your friends and family. he says one things and does another, decieves, betrays, condemns anyone else who speaks their mind to death, killed 42 kids becuase they laughed at a bald man where parenting would've been way more effective.
God is like a whiney child, who if he doesn't get his way, gets his friends and beats the poops out of everyone else.

Mr.X, you must understand if i would become religous, i would more likely become a pagan. they have the one rule christianity so carelessly over looked :and it harm none, do what thy will.

Nothing in the bible says you can't be a bitch and yell
racist or predujiced remarks at others.

still an atheist in the idiot nation.

Would you considder your wife unclean after her period? the bible says anyone who touches a woman after her period for a week becomes unclean as well.
its all in leviticus, god's biggest mistakes.
CJ , 14.05.2005, 3:24am link
and the human race as a whole will embrace god when we have lost a sense of identity. can you convince 7 billion people to go to your church and follow your rules all the time? the answer: you can't. people think for them selves. i fthye want to lsiten to a book, so be it.
CJ , 14.05.2005, 3:27am link
I'm not trying to convert anyone to christianity. God has no religion. God is not outside of us, but inside. Your looking the wrong way CJ. Look within, and you will know God, not just know about God.
God's voice is silence, and silence is golden. If prayer is you talking to God, then intuition is God talking to you.
A holy being is without judgment, anger and hatred.
Mr. X , 14.05.2005, 5:21pm link
So contradictory.....

If X claims to be a christian then he is bound by the "bible"...the infallible work that is gods word and directive for us. The bible makes it clear that god is a separate entity ourside of us.

If X is starting a new faith with his "inside you" dogma then he is a guilty as all the other "faith starters" as he bases the faith on something he can not show to exist.

Either way there is no god. Its all bullshit.


There is no god. Witin there is viscera.

D
Sierra [Email], 14.05.2005, 8:41pm link
Mr. X doesn't advocate genocide against anyone on this planet like you Sierra.
You should stop listening to right wing radio hosts like Rush Limbaugh. He was a little nutty at the beginning, but makes more sense that you Sierra.
You are the biggest mental case on this webboard and shouldn't be permitted to post anything you right wing fascist.
Timnot4me , 14.05.2005, 10:24pm link
silence is not golden. silence is weak. if silence was gold, the world would be poor, becuase every speaks what they want, and no one can stop them. god must be incredibly rich by now. and i thought he didn't covet material possesions.

though i have to agree with Timnot4me. sierra needs to realize the utter anihilattion of a people doesn't solve anything. if you kill all the muslims, someone else in the world is going to get very angry as well.

i am my own god, not a 2000 year old one described in a flawed, hypocritical book. i wrote downa ll sorts of things that are hypocritical to what this supposedly kind loving patient god says. there is no god within me who follows the supposedly fair and good book, no god that follows what others say, no god whose symbol is a man stapled to a telephone pole.

it stil sounds like you're trying to get me to succumb to christianity. nice try, your patience is legendary, but IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN.

if i have to look the way god does, then i'd probably feel fairly inclined to kill off a good deal of my community.

god is still a bully, he wastes any who differs from him. would you kill a hindu for his beleifs? i know i wouldn't, but would your god say to? it's all in the book. its funny cuz my pastors keep skipping the parts about beating your kids and that women are unclean vermin.

Idiot America, CJ.
CJ , 14.05.2005, 11:25pm link
happy 202nd post ya'!
CJ , 15.05.2005, 1:07am link
I do not advocate genocide. I advocate peace and trade.

However...

Some people do not was peace. Their god commands them to see to forward their philosophy by other means.

When they do this they threaten me.

At that point its time to wipe them out.

All of them.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 15.05.2005, 1:31am link
naw. just wipe out the one who's yelling "i kill you! you go to hell! YOU GO TO HELL AND DIE!" waving a knife in the air, coming at you screaming like a horny chimp.
thats when man proves he's smarter then a insufficient, inaccurate book with a twelve guage.

done ranting.
still don't ahte anyone for no reason, CJ.
CJ , 15.05.2005, 1:51am link
Mr.X, i remember seeing one of your posts earlier on the opera of jerry springer. of course the earht is billions of years old. the moon is infact getting farther from the earth at the rate of one inch per year. duh.

juast becuase a communist discovered doesn't mean he's going to lie about it. why? becuase someone else will discover it and amke it known.
CJ , 15.05.2005, 7:56am link
we need a new post! someone find some religous crap! t06 posts...jeez, are we treally this lazy, i mean good stuff to yell about is alla round us!

how about someone shares a personal experience?
CJ , 15.05.2005, 8:18am link
Sierra - "I do not advocate genocide. I advocate peace and trade"

Sorry, are you a different Sierra than the one that wants to kill all Muslims in the world? If so could you use another username as it can get very confusing.

The other Sierra says things like:

"The only way we are going to see peace in the middle east is to begin killing muslims on a VAST scale."

and

"If we close our borders and let these people starve maybe we won't need so many bombs."

and

"I don't advocate the bullshit religion part, but its time for some of the nations in the world to see a few bombs."

You wouldn't want to mistaken for that kind of hate mongering fascist, now would you?
bogue , 15.05.2005, 10:14am link
CJ, I am what I choose today , not what I've done in my past. I've moved away from dogman and to enlightenment. I have acknowledged the mistakes of the ego and now embrace spirit.

God is within.
Mr. X , 15.05.2005, 2:18pm link
Bogue,

Listen. I do not advocate going after these folks for no reason.

However, these folks have show an intention and desire to kill us and everyone who does not believe as they do.

Its like this....

I will get along with my neighbors just fine....right up until I catch one in my house late at night.

That is going to have a MUCH different outcome.

I love to listen to people like you. Its all peace, love, respect for others, don't kill, don't hurt.

I wish it could have been one of your relatives killed on 9/11. Then perhaps you would feel the need to visit some of this destruction back on those who caused it.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 15.05.2005, 6:11pm link
its already ahppening sierra. i still think its funny that we found sadam hiding ina hole with a mountain dew and a half-loaded pistol.

and mr.x, you seem to have been quite the potty mouth back then. what happened?

would anyone considder their wives unclean after giving birth? the bible says a woman's unclean for two weeks if she gives birth to a girl!!!

Having fun at the Scottish Games, CJ
CJ , 15.05.2005, 7:09pm link
to bad mexico is really f***ed up. i hear that for flavort hey put lead in their candies taht they give to five year olds.

listening to scottish music at the games, CJ
CJ , 15.05.2005, 7:11pm link
Sierra, do I detect a slight hypocrisy? "However, these folks have show an intention and desire to kill us and everyone who does not believe as they do." - Sierra. And your point about us having different views if someone we knew had died in 9/11 is complete nonsense. You act as if we are on the side of the terrorists, which is completely false. We simply believe that "revenge" should be visited in a way that doesn't encompass mindless, indiscriminatry violence on a huge scale. Perhaps you have noqualms about wiping out hundreds of their civilians in the offchance you may get one of their important leaders, but does not that make you just as bad as them?
Latin_lover [Email], 15.05.2005, 10:26pm link
Oh and one more question Sierra. I mean this in an entirely respectful way, but are you male or female? I have heard you referred as "he" and "she", but you don't say anything contradictory to either. Just so I don't make a mistake in the future.
Thanks.
Latin_lover [Email], 15.05.2005, 10:32pm link
I am male. I live near the Sierra Nevada mountains in CA.

As far as "We simply believe that "revenge" should be visited in a way that doesn't encompass mindless, indiscriminatry violence on a huge scale."

That is not how the terrorists think. Why are the people they represent due a higher standard of care than we are?

Their whole goal is to create as much destruction and death as possible.

They asked for this. Now they have it.

And don't give me that crap about the US and its imperial interests. Exactly what do you think people are asking for when they go to Washington or the UN as bitch about human rights violations?

Thats right....they want US intervention.

D
Sierra [Email], 15.05.2005, 10:53pm link
The problem is not the difference between how you and the terrorists think (if it can be called "thinking") but the actual effect the actions taken have. The US has visited far more destruction and death on others (before and after the attacks of 9/11) on other nations than it itself has suffered.
Perhaps your point about every complaint of human rights violations being a call for US intervention would be valid if the US had a half decent human rights record (Guantanamo Bay, anyone?). I'm not saying the terrorists don't deserve punishment, but you must also find the cause of the problems. There have been few attacks in France and in Spain (after the Socialist government got in anyway) and in Russia (leaving aside the Chechyen rebel).
Latin_lover [Email], 16.05.2005, 2:34am link
thats where humanity gets divided. what is truly right to do? destroy a people who may not be as bent on killing us as we take them to be, or let them live and have deja vu of 9/11. hard choice. it's like some christians may only casually care about their god, there are bound to be some islams who don't really care about killing the "heretic"

went to the scottish games, and got me a cool hand crafted neckalce with celtic pentacle. gonna make some religous fanatic heads spin.

head-bangin' to nightwish, cJ
CJ , 16.05.2005, 3:39am link
Latin....you must be nuts....

"The US has visited far more destruction and death on others (before and after the attacks of 9/11) on other nations than it itself has suffered." .....well, thank goodness. That is why we are free and have never been invaded. I am very proud that the films of all the burned out cities and desolation all come from other countries.

"Perhaps your point about every complaint of human rights violations being a call for US intervention would be valid if the US had a half decent human rights record (Guantanamo Bay, anyone?)"....yeah, where are real badies there. Maybe a couple of hundred of islamers getting the best food and care they have ever had. Lets not forget they were "enemy combatants".

"I'm not saying the terrorists don't deserve punishment," ...wlll that is certainly good to hear.

"...but you must also find the cause of the problems."....I think the marine's are working on that!!.

"There have been few attacks in France and in Spain (after the Socialist government got in anyway) and in Russia (leaving aside the Chechyen rebel).".....oh, so what you are saying is that if you don't count the school or subway masacres and set aside the attacks in which the government gave in then europe is relatively quiet?

I think you made my point pretty well.

There is no god. Screw islam.

D
Sierra [Email], 16.05.2005, 6:54am link
Listen you moron, I said the Russian attacks were done by the Chechyens (although I know that Americans frequently mix up people who are not in Al-Qaeda with ones that are) and the attacks in Spain were made BEFORE the anti-war Government was elected. I am using them to illustrate that these people attacked whom they had to, not just because they were "infidels" or any such rubbish. If you are truly proud of the deaths of innocents caused by your Government, you must be a depraved individual indeed.
CJ, I am not advocating living in the possibility of another major terrorist attack, but I am advocating a successful deterrent policy. It's called "peace". I agree that 9/11 was a tragedy, but I think that intead of getting hung up on destructive notions of revenge we should try to ensure that it does not happen again. In a perfect world they would be punished duly, but this will not be acheived through military might.
As for Sierra's comments on the prisoners getting "the best food and care they have ever had"- bear in mind that this is not a holiday camp. It is an interrogation facility, which uses methods that courts would not accept as valid for extracting evidence. Also, you may not be aware of the huge uproar there was about the BRITISH citizens who were held there. Also, Guantanamo Bay was just what popped into my head at that point. There was also Abu-Ghraib prison.
Latin_lover [Email], 16.05.2005, 6:00pm link
Also, on the point of them being "enemy combatants", that is hard to prove. Why? Because they were held WITHOUT TRIAL.
Latin_lover [Email], 16.05.2005, 6:04pm link
i love how america twists history to make it sound like we're the only reason the world is in one peice. its for these reasons i don't feel compelled to say the pledge of allegiance.

i jsut can't hel but to wonder about terrosrist attacks. i live a halfa mile forom the luarence livermore antional lab, lota nukes and bacteria and other unfluffy but cool things in there. for days after 9/11 i was paranoid everytime i saw aplane fly in the general direction of LLNL. got over it though, but LLNL is one of the three largest labs in the US-o-A.

wonderin when his math homework is due, CJ.
CJ , 16.05.2005, 10:08pm link
also, we need another thread! we've been using this one 2oo+ times! c'mon someone find something to share!
CJ , 16.05.2005, 10:09pm link
Latin is an idiot.

I am not PROUD of deaths my government has caused, innocent or not....I just realize that these death are necessary. A lot more will follow if these towel-heads don't knock it off.

They could stop at any time.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 16.05.2005, 11:04pm link
You are not proud? Ahem. "I am very proud that the films of all the burned out cities and desolation all come from other countries."- Sierra.
Also, while spouting your rhetoric that "they could stop at any time", did you ever consider that there may be a reason for their violence beyond a religious fervour? They are fighting in revenge. Just as you advocate vengeance on them so they do the same to you. Of course they COULD stop, but it would probably not be in their best interests. You see, if they were to stop fighting, they would have time to do other things. Like move towards a fairer system of government. Which of course their leaders don't want. I think that the onus is on YOU, as the supposedly "developed" nation, to lead the way. That is the only way to stop it, and when one side realises this, then I think hostilities will slow down.

P.S.: I am sorry for calling you a moron, but I just found it extremely offensive that you should imply I care nothing for the deaths of civilians in Spanish and in Russian terrorist atrocities.
Latin_lover [Email], 17.05.2005, 12:35pm link
Terrorists are scum, but you cannot defeat them by looking tough and waving your military might around. You MUST look at the reasons terrorists act, and try to resolve the problem this way.
UberNoob , 17.05.2005, 1:13pm link
I am proud that it is them, not us. It means that our military is working. Its unfortunate that it is necessary.

And don't give me that "lead the way" crap either. As soon as we start to "lead" you and others will say that we are meddling and trying to force our ways upon them.

I say we kill all the bad ones (most of them) and then "lead the way" with those who are left by reforming their governments into democracys.

Lastly, I could not care one way or the other how you feel about Russian or Spanish victims. The point is that they terrorists struck there too ... against countries who are suposedly free of all of the bad things the us is.

Kill tham all. Let allah sort them out.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 17.05.2005, 3:43pm link
I'm sorry, but do you have a basic problem with logic? The Spanish were attacked WHEN THEY SUPPORTED THE US. The Russians were attacked not for supporting the US but for their tyranny in Chechnya. This shows that you are LESS LIKELY to be attacked if you advocate peace.
Why on Earth would we accuse you of meddling if you were to CEASE military activity..? That's not meddling. Or at least, proposing peace is a hell of a lot less interfering than killing them all.
Which brings me back to another one of my points.
You CANNOT kill them all. As I have stated before, no nation or current group of nations has the power to wipe out Islam by violent means.
Though it may be a complicated concept for you to swallow, people outside of the US tend not to attack their allies.
Narratio resumetur, suspecto...
Latin_lover [Email], 17.05.2005, 7:34pm link
the first thing the US needs to do is stop bitching about others problems and bitch about our own. why rant and rave about third world countries? we have plenty of problems over here!

i don't think we should necessarily kill everyone with a towel on their head. if it's world population sierra was talking about, read my conuminium idea i posted earlier. they area threat to us, but if they honestly think they cant ake on the USA, they're smoking something more illegal then a mass homicide.
CJ , 17.05.2005, 10:45pm link
JUST WONDERED WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS QUOTE I READ ONCE - "ALL MEN SEARCH FOR GOD, THE ATHIEST'S QUEST JUST ENDED IN THIER MIRROR.
BUCKEYE , 18.05.2005, 1:20am link
well, that would give mr.x something to rant about. he's always going on about "god is within"

mind you, i don't beleive a kind hearted 6000 year old women hating, kid abusing deity resides within me. i wouldn't considder myself my own god, but more like the only way for me to go.

(singing) i don't need your authority,
down with the moral majority
cuz i wanna be the minority...

i will point out now some bible thumpers quest ends with their head up their ass. founda pic of a creatioist man with his head up his ass. the caption: creationist seeking a clue.

-Is your head up your ass for the warmth?!

frantically (and unsuccesfully) trying to re-tune guitar after visit from 7 year old cousins, CJ.

(plays a pitiful note, breaks down crying)

:)
CJ , 18.05.2005, 4:22am link
We may not be able to kill ALL muslims, but then again we didn't kill all NAZIs either. We simply reduced them to a managable number.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 18.05.2005, 6:41am link
Please. So how do you explain the rise of the neo-Nazis in Austria and Germany? Le Pen in France, and the BNP in the UK? They will come back. The only way to defeat an ideology is to show it up as the farce that it is. This cannot be achieved through war alone. In engaging militarily, you accelerate the growth of religions and creeds such as Islam. I have fait that some day religions will be beaten back to the fringes of society, but this is not a goal that can be realised at the point of a gun. The more martyrs you create, the more people will respect them.
Latin_lover [Email], 18.05.2005, 12:26pm link
Look, I've got a lot against the Christians for historical reasons, and because there's this one kid that keeps trying to "convert" me... What I see is that a religion that gets built properly may be one of the world's most useful political tools. The various psychology facts I've ever heard of suggest that a church is exactly what the masses need for mental support. Out of the sixteen base personality types, something like twelve of them occupy that demographic. Wouldn't the best path be to quietly close up shop, and then infiltrate the church and use it to influence the rest of the world? After all, it doesn't take much to fake conviction. We could have the world's first intelligent atheist pope!
The Rook , 18.05.2005, 3:53pm link
Latin,

Thank you. When you say "This cannot be achieved through war alone." I guess you are acknowledging that war is an important component of stamping these people out.

Sure, were need to do other things too, but the more we reduce the number, the easier it will be.

Islamers do not value life. They even kill each other at a furious pace. These are simply just not people who can be civilized.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 18.05.2005, 4:00pm link
But you are completely missing my other point! I said, "The more martyrs you create, the more people will respect them." I admit that force is sometimes an option, but only in the most extreme of cases. And no, Iraq does not qualify as the most serious of cases (or at least didn't until the coalition invaded). As repugnant as Islam is, it is not something to be destroyed by violence. And even if you were to kill them all, that would make you just as bad, if not worse, as they themselves.
Basically, if you pursue a policy of indiscriminate violence against the innocent and the guilty, as you do now, you cannot complain when stuff like 9/11 happens.
I think developed countries should "meddle", just without the use of military force, and not for the purpose of making a profit.
Do you think the Imams could make so many young men choose to perform suicide missions if America had treated that country well?
Latin_lover [Email], 18.05.2005, 5:12pm link
You betcha. The towel heads will kill anyone for any reason. It does not matter how they were treated. In the end, there is still the goal of spreading islam. Look at the civil wars in central africa between the muslims and non-muslims.

I accept the fact that we will have 9/11s from time to time. Frankly they are useful for reminding people of why we are after the islamers in the first place.

The more of them we can kill the better off the world will be.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 18.05.2005, 11:46pm link
Ah! I understand. You like hate and violence. You wanted September the 11th.
Well, if that's your outlook I can't really argue with you.
However, if you had any humane emotions at all and a desire to stop people from dying needlessly, you might listen to what I say.
The "towel heads" (as you insist on calling them) are not, on the whole, all that bad. I know many of them close to where I live, and I say it's great we have some multiculturalism in this country. I know that many of them are horrible people, but you can't just brand them all as murderers, you think you will stop them killing you like that?
You have to accept that no global empire is possible, and that is a GOOD THING. A monocultural world would be very boring indeed. I for one relish other cultures (exept when they are hateful and oppressive). But that's where you have to understand that you will never acheive your goal of wiping out all Muslims. It is impossible. And don't give me any more of that bollocks about "killing as many as possible", because as I have stated several times before, that will simply create more of them.
I think I would join them (or if not them then some other militant group)if what you are advocating (genocide) became a government policy. Not because I identify with their ideals, but because they at least would be fighting for the right to live. Of course, you have to combat those who torture and kill the innocent, but the best way to do it is NOT TO KILL THEM.
Latin_lover [Email], 19.05.2005, 1:07am link
Ah yes, one more thing. I don't know why you call them "towel heads" as what you probably mean by "towel" (turban) is commonly worn by Hindus, one of the world's most nonviolent religions.
Latin_lover [Email], 19.05.2005, 1:09am link
'Sierra' you are a complete cretin. The United States is the NUMBER ONE source of all evil in the world today. I hope that the 'Islamists' kick the USA's ass out of every nation that they are plundering in the world today. Death to America!
PA , 19.05.2005, 3:57am link
Why is it so important to you that people not die needlessly. If thats how you feel, why don't you worry about people being BORN needlessly?

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 19.05.2005, 5:14am link
'Why is it so important to you that people not die needlessly?' Do you even bother to read what you type? Gee, maybe I give a damn because I actually happen to believe that people matter. A great deal of criticism has been levelled at religious fundamentalists trying to impose their narrow and bigoted world-view upon the rest of us, but the real threat to civilisation is actually scientific fundamentalism, with its' nihilistic philosophies of reductionism and social darwinism, both of which have been adopted with full enthusiasm by the economic 'rationalists' who are in charge of the corporations that control the bad-old U.S.A. Your letters reveal a shocking level of ignorance which is, unfortunatly, shared by the majority of your countrymen who couldn't find Iraq on a map of the world if their life depended on it. An entire nation of yokels and gun-loving rednecks; that is how the rest of the world sees your pathetic nation, and that is why everyone hates it. By the way I don't believe in a 'big daddy in the sky' either (unlike that demented idiot Bush).
PA , 19.05.2005, 6:12am link
I agree to some extent with PA. When science is taken to its logical extreme (as happened in the Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany), terrible things can occur. However this does not mean that we should abandon it. Science should be used as a means to an end, the goal being getter lives for all. It is when we let science rule us, and lose our basic sense of humanity that problems occur.
And Sierra, as I have said in my earlier posts, over population does matter to me, but I don;t think the answer to it is to kill millions of people. The answer is birth control.
Latin_lover [Email], 19.05.2005, 1:36pm link
PA is smoking something really strong and illegal. islams trying to take on USA= god looking down one day to find the part of the earth where the middle east use to be has been replaced by a crater, and a peice of land is floating away, somewhere past jupiter.

we can't change peoples veiws, but share our own and maybe they'll agree with us on that. sierra does seem to want to kill of a good deal of people for having turbens. nota very good reason, sure they make some FAT ASS MISTAKES, but just look at what chrisitanity has done to us! you'll have as much success wiping out every christian as you will covincing a biologist a carrot is a higher form of life. i hate needless deaths, i mean my final rule in life is "if i die due to someones ignorance and actions, im taking them with me!" if i got shot by a gang leader, and i take him with me, the pow! no more gang.

honestly, i'd love to see less death in the world, but i'm kinda torn there. overpopulation where 7 billion people are gonna want a home and food and water, and ajob, etc... or letting alot of innocent people die? if i was there, i would save a kid from being smashed bya truck, but on algobal scale? holy poop!!! one solution i like: condominiums, like the idea i posted way earlier. i'll give more description alter if you want it.
CJ , 20.05.2005, 10:30pm link
birth control all the way!!!
CJ , 20.05.2005, 10:33pm link
Scientific fundamentalism IS a threat to our lives, health and sanity, and no CJ I don't smoke something 'strong and illegal' - I've never even touched a cigarette.
PA , 21.05.2005, 2:25am link
Ha. The image CJ gives of a destroyed middle East is so absurd as to be slightly entertaining. I mean, it must be a joke for him to think that a large part of the earth could become physically detatched and float away into space, at the hands of a few Neocons armed with nukes...? Rest assured, the US could not destroy the Middle East as easily as it likes to imply... which is a Good Thing.
Latin_lover [Email], 21.05.2005, 5:10am link
At least u dont smoke. if im gonna die, i'll go ahead and die! better then comitting suicide over the course of 15 years.

oh, and the middle east thing being blown away into space was an exageration. it was called "bomb saddam" or something like that. i was reffering to PA's post on how the middle east could waste the US (strongest military force in the world so far)

america is fucked up, but thats where i live. besides, america is the only place i know of (not SURE of other nations) where you can diss your homeland.

-fromt he nation under the media, CJ

its a pretty good thing the US can't destroy the middle east as easily as it would like to say. think of what goerge bush *DUMBASS* (cough) would do
CJ , 22.05.2005, 3:27am link
PA says... "I give a damn because I actually happen to believe that people matter."

BINGO!!!...you just hit on the basic cornerstone of religion.

The reality is that people DO NOT MATTER. People do not matter any more than any other animal. It is only the arrogance of people who believe they are important and that is the first step toward creating a religion.

The truth is that people do not matter. I do not matter. Knowing that allows me to appreciate my place in the universe without silly ideas that it all has "purpose" or that there is a "plan" for me.

I appreciate a camping trip, I fish but throw them back. I like the night sky. I enjoy all of it.

I just know that there is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 22.05.2005, 7:35am link
I would argue that a non-belief in deism produces exactly the opposite of what Sierra says. It's strange how most of those who supported the war on Iraq were religious (Bush, Bliar, Berlusconi, many Christian pressure groups).
I would say that human life does matter. But then that leads us on to the fact that everything is relative... Sure, the deaths of a few hundred innocents won't make much difference in a few million years (a cosmic eyeblink) or much further than the boundaries of our own planet, but I say we have to work with what we have. If you say that none of our affairs matter, you may as well kill yourself right now. Then again you might as well not. You have no impetus to help anyone or improve the world.
I say we have to do what we can, and though we may never change the universe or become eternal beings, we should enjoy what time we have on this Earth and help others to do the same.
Oooh, just got all philosophical... Nevertheless, that is what I believe.
Latin_lover [Email], 22.05.2005, 7:53pm link
Perhaps we shouldn't have "improved" the world.

If we were living in a global, agrarian society, all farming, tending our crops and living "locally" the planet would be better off.

Just because I can go down to the grovery store and buy shrimp sent in from Taiwan I am not better off.

We do not mattter. There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 23.05.2005, 6:20am link
What garbage. We seem to have this idea that in the past everything was better, and people lived simple lives... This is true of course, when you forget about the deaths from mysterious diseases, the crime, the abject poverty of the majority in every county.
Not only is this false it is also stupid. For what possible reaon could you persuade people to go and live with no technology and/or amenities..? come to that, are you, in fact, joking? I'm all for the abolition of multinational corporations, but that doesn't mean we have to abandon all progression and technology...
Latin_lover [Email], 23.05.2005, 3:34pm link
Technology and "advancement" are not only killing this planet, it is concentrating more and more wealth in a few hands.

Many of the so-called ammenities people live for in reality could easily be lived without.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 23.05.2005, 4:06pm link
Actually, advancement is not killing this country. At least, not scientific advancement. The needs of big corporations are killing this planet. I wholeheartedly agree that they are cocentrating power in a few hands.
Perhaps advancement during the industrial revolution was harmful for this planet, but advancement now usually means cleaner and better facilities, more recycling, new devices such as hydrogen motors etc. Of course people could live without many amenities, but why should they?
I do not think that becoming a Luddite is the way to solve the world#s problems.
Latin_lover [Email], 23.05.2005, 10:32pm link
Whether or not you accept it, when energy (gasoline) becomes unavailable (as it will one day (hastened be the rise of a chinese middle class) worldwide economies are going to collapse. When that happens, the only people in the US that will be relatively unaffected will be the Amish.


As far as "why" people should do without these things is that few people can afford them. The rise of consumer debt is staggering.

This causes people to flock to the churches (whoa is me, my life is so bad) which (I think) is driving part of the rise in christian fundamentalism and evangelicalism.

People have all this stuff, are still living miserable lives (by their own hand) and are looking for a way out.

There is no god. Be responsible.

D
Sierra [Email], 24.05.2005, 12:23am link
'The reality is that people DO NOT MATTER.' Sierra, that suggests to me that you are psychopathically dysfunctional to say the least. If people don't matter, then what does? Oh, I know, nothing at all. The universe is pointless and meaningless, and everything is just an accident (like the fact that we are here at all). It's people such as yourself that create all of the problems that the rest of us later on have to sort out (ex. Hitler & WW2 - he was psycho/sociopathic just like yourself).
Seriously, did something extremely traumatic happen to you when you were very young? Did your father drop you on your head when you were a baby or something like it? People such as yourself need serious psychiatric help.
PA , 24.05.2005, 3:15am link
We do not matter. Why is that so hard to accept?

Why is it so important that people survive to the exclusion of all other people? If every human died the earth would go on just fine. I doubt the other animals would miss us.

The earth is a beautiful, wonderful place, but nothing in that suggests "purpose" for man or a need for him to be present.

Try to separate value judgements from observation. People matter to people, but in the grand scheme of things, if we all went "poof" I think everything would be ok. The earth certainly would not grind to a stop.

Its like the dinosaurs. They were once. They aren't now. Its neither good or bad. It just is.

Enjoy your time. You do not matter.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 24.05.2005, 3:46am link
Of course humans do not matter to the universe as a whole. But people matter to other people. You can't treat everyone as if they don't matter because they amtter just as much as you TO EACH OTHER. It's fine to say that people do not matter, but don't expect everyone to stop doing anything just because they may not be masters of the universe. I for one am wuite glad that we have little cosmic significance. Gives us less chance to fuck it up...
On another note, if we don't matter, what does? If intelligent life is of no importance, then what is? One could just as easily use your arguments to destroy the universe, as it "does not matter", as no-one would miss it when it was gone.
Latin_lover [Email], 24.05.2005, 1:29pm link
Again, separate. Why does anyting have to be IMPORTANT?

Matter and energy came to together and the universe and earth and all of it just "IS".

Why is it so important to you that thing be "significant"?

Its like a busy train station. Throngs of people all on their way here and there. Noise. Bustle. I suppose in your view some of the people moving through the station are "significant". There has to be "purpose" and "meaning" to it all.

If it makes you feel better to believe all kinds of things about your fellow travelers, so be it, but that it particular to you.

In the middle of the night when the station is empty it is not the "sad time". Its just simply no one is there.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 24.05.2005, 4:08pm link
I'm not arguing that things have a special significance. I'm merely saying that as things are important to us as individuals, then we have to defend those things. I think you have to take into account that people matter... perhaps not on a universal scale but still to some extent. For example, when someone close to you dies, you feel regret and sadness, at least for a while. That person was important to you, if not to the rest of the galaxy. I think we have to jusdge what is important on a personal basis.
Are you telling me that you don't care at all when you hear about huge catastrophies? Hundreds of people dead? If those mean nothing to you, then you are a psychopath (literally, I'm not using it as an insult). I know that what I do won't change the universe, and I know that the universe would not weep were I to die, but I'll keep going and doing my best for myself and for others. Nihilism does not appeal to me.
Latin_lover [Email], 25.05.2005, 3:48pm link
If you want to believe you are important, fine. Value your friends and relatives all you want. But remember, it stops with you. What I mean is that if your loved one and someone elses loved one are on a plane that this about to crash and there is only one parachute left, the other side is going to be rooting AGAINST your loved one.

You and yours only matter as far as you and yours.

As far as disasters, its a bummer, but tuff shit. You can not save eveyone. The more people there are the more that going to die in any disaster. That is not good or bad, it just is.

Its like this, in Florida Indians NEVER lived on the coast. Why? Hurricanes and storm surges. They knew better and lived inland. Now days people build their houses right on the water, on stilts our over it if they can. Now when a storm comes (as we know it will) destroys their home and kills them, are we really sad.

They will want to chalk it up to "gods will".

To me its darwinism.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 25.05.2005, 4:00pm link
Well, I cannot argue with bare-faced inhumanity. I am a humanist. I know that I cannot save everyone, but I can give everything for the greater good. "We cannot be sure of having something to live for unless we are willing to die for it". That is a quote I believe with all my heart. You may call it stupid and unrealistic, but I don't believe that complete gratification of the ego is enough for a good life. The one thing that matters to me above all else, above my life, yours, and the lives of a hundred others, is the wellbeing and survival of the human race.
Latin_lover [Email], 25.05.2005, 10:18pm link
"The one thing that matters to me above all else, above my life, yours,......."


Speak for yourself.

If you want to give to the greater good...and are willing to die for it....then give it to me. I can use and and will use it for good.

I will use it for my wellbeing and survival.

That should make you feel good.

There is no god.

D
Sierra [Email], 26.05.2005, 2:33am link
i have no idea whats going on here. lets go bitch on the new threads.
CJ , 26.05.2005, 5:01am link
Why wouild I devote my life to you? From your earlier posts, it seems that you would probably do more harm than good with it. Anyway, it is a bit of an outdated concept because not everything is decided by strength in battle anymore. Also, I would not give it to you, because that would be pointless. Letting one person die so another can live better is the idea behind modern capitalism, not something I agree with. But if one can die to save others from death, if one can die fighting to protect one's values, then that was worth it.
Latin_lover [Email], 26.05.2005, 11:37am link
im confused. what are you talking about?
we have a few new threads, we can talk there. the laoding time on this one is killing my machine.
CJ , 27.05.2005, 2:47am link
America was not founded by irrationalists, it has become perverted by them.


http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6177
Jake [Email][Home], 12.06.2005, 5:34pm link
From the Ayn Rand Institute:

The Founding Fathers on Religion-

As the quotes on this page illustrate, the claim that America was founded on Christianity is a myth. Many of the Founding Fathers and Revolutionary War leaders were Deists, and upheld a firm separation of church and state.
 
Webster's New World Dictionary -- Third College Edition

Deism: (1) The belief in the existence of a God on purely rational grounds without reliance on revelation or authority; especially in the 17th and 18th centuries. (2) The doctrine that God created the world and its natural laws, but takes no further part in its functioning.
 
United States Constitution

The First Amendment
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."
 
Article VI, Section 3
"...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
 
 
John Adams (the second President of the United States)

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
 
From a letter to Charles Cushing (October 19, 1756):
"Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, 'this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.'"
 
From a letter to Thomas Jefferson:
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
 
Additional quotes from John Adams:
"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?"
 
"The Doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."
 
"...Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
 
 
Thomas Jefferson (the third President of the United States)

Jefferson's interpretation of the first amendment in a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association (January 1, 1802):
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
 
From Jefferson's biography:
"...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, 'Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,' which was rejected 'By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.'"
 
Jefferson's "The Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom":
"Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, more than on our opinions in physics and geometry....The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
 
From Thomas Jefferson's Bible:
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
 
Jefferson's Notes on Virginia:
"Reason and persuasion are the only practicable instruments. To make way for these free inquiry must be indulged; how can we wish others to indulge it while we refuse ourselves? But every state, says an inquisitor, has established some religion. No two, say I, have established the same. Is this a proof of the infallibility of establishments?"
 
Additional quotes from Thomas Jefferson:
"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."
 
"They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition of their schemes. And they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the alter of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
 
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."
 
"In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."
 
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear....Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences. If it end in a belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue on the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others which it will procure for you."
 
"Christianity...[has become] the most perverted system that ever shone on man....Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."
 
"...that our civil rights have no dependence on religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics and geometry."
 
 
James Madison (the fourth President of the United States)

Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments:
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise....During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."
 
Additional quote from James Madison:
"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
 
 
Benjamin Franklin

From Franklin's autobiography, p. 66:
"My parents had given me betimes religious impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself."
 
From Franklin's autobiography, p. 66:
"...Some books against Deism fell into my hands....It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
 
 
Thomas Paine

From The Age of Reason, pp. 89:
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of....Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all."
 
From The Age of Reason:
"All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
 
From The Age of Reason:
"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion."
 
From The Age of Reason:
"What is it the Bible teaches us? -- rapine, cruelty, and murder."
 
From The Age of Reason:
"Loving of enemies is another dogma of feigned morality, and has beside no meaning....Those who preach the doctrine of loving their enemies are in general the greatest prosecutors, and they act consistently by so doing; for the doctrine is hypocritical, and it is natural that hypocrisy should act the reverse of what it preaches."
 
From The Age of Reason:
"The Bible was established altogether by the sword, and that in the worst use of it -- not to terrify but to extirpate."
 
Additional quote from Thomas Paine:
"It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible."
 
 
Ethan Allen

From Religion of the American Enlightenment:
"Denominated a Deist, the reality of which I have never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian."
Jake [Email][Home], 12.06.2005, 5:39pm link
The objectivist refutation of religion:

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=media_topic_religion
Jake [Email][Home], 12.06.2005, 5:43pm link
i am A CRISTIAN AND THINK THAT YOU SHOUD RESPECT other peoples veiws iam not a serial killer or anything like that i just try and be a good person thats what cristianities about emost people would agree with that even if they don't believe in jesus. i bet none of you have ever been to church and you clearly don't understand what christianity is so don't mock it and think about offending peoples beleifs
E [Email], 18.07.2005, 10:21pm link
to seirra i think your ideas of life are pretty sad look around you everythingd amazing if theres no point to life and you don't love anyone not even your self because noone matters moe than any one else and you just don't carethen you will have a very sad life
E , 18.07.2005, 10:28pm link
GOd loves you all. Bush is cool and if you people would take a look around through different eyes, maybe you could see why Christians think the way we do. I am a Christian and I am proud of it. I can argue against evolution till you turn blue, and I still won't be done. Why don't you just come off of your self and think about things with an open mind instead of a closed, selfish one. God loves you even if you don't love Him. He is waiting for you to realize that he is real.
GOD LOVER [Email], 02.09.2005, 11:58pm link
Sierra, you are amazingly important to God. He created you and he loves you. Even if you cannot see that now, it is true. Think about it.
GOd loves YOU, sierra
GOD LOVER [Email], 03.09.2005, 12:02am link
E, I beg to differ about your argument claiming Sierra (and by extension, all atheists) does not love anyone, and considers only the self. This is not a consequence of atheism. I do not know about Sierra, but I (as an atheist) have loved, and I can consider the beauty in a summer's day or full moon.
But I don't have to attribute it to a murderous amoral psychopath, such as the god depicted in the Bible.
And "GOD LOVER", I am sure it would be great to see things through another's eyes, though it would be unlikely to change my opinion. I deal with facts. Not with blind faith. You cannot have faith without (some) facts. That is completely irrational.
Latin_lover [Email], 03.09.2005, 5:51pm link
I did not say that Sierra does not love or enjoy anything. I was referring to God. Whenever GOd is referred to as Him or He, a capital H is used. But I woulnd't expect you to know that. I love to look at a full moon and beutiful days too, but I can enjoy them more since I believe that God created them. How can you look at something so complex and think that it all happened by chance? The world and everthing in it is so complex that no one understands it all. Absolutely no one. They try to expain it with evolution but they still cannot prove it. Evolutionists have not proof.
GOD LOVER [Email], 04.09.2005, 3:21pm link
Wow, I was just reading some of the long, really boring responses, and they are really wrong. I don't have time to go into it. I just was going to say that anyone who posts stuff on here does not have to try to use big words and all tha crap. Save it for important stuff. It does not gain you respect and admiration if that is what you want. How long did you guys work on it anyway? This is here to talk about God and anything else controversial, but we don't have to make it all fancy. Just say what you need to say.
GOD LOVER [Email], 04.09.2005, 4:35pm link
Also, to anyone who hates America. If you hate it so much, why odn't you move to one of those perfect democratic countries you were talking about. Don't sit here and complain.
GOD LOVER [Email], 04.09.2005, 4:37pm link
I was not referring to "GOD LOVER"'s comments, I was referring to those of E, who said "look around you everythingd (sic)amazing ... you don't love anyone not even your self ... you will have a very sad life".
And your idiotic (but sadly typical) comments that all people who don't like America should leave it are wrong because 1) America affects the rest of the world as well. Actions taken there have repercussions around the world. And 2) Don't you want a democracy? I thought it was all about respecting people's opinions, not chucking them out if they don't agree with you.

Reminds me of Bush's comments of "If you are not with the United States you are with the terrorists", thereby classifying over three billion people as terrorists...
Latin_lover [Email], 05.09.2005, 12:22am link
actually, finland is pretty awesome...but anywho, i'd rather america get off it's ass and fix some of the problems it started.

for once, i'd like nuclear power to replace coal...

i may be atheist, but SHIT i am livin' good! just had scottish games all over again!
Shaggy , 05.09.2005, 1:06am link
LATIN_LOVER- mybad on the E thing. I was not saying that I do not want a democracy. No wonder you are atheist! You took it the complete wrong way! I don't care if people don't agree with me and I don't expect them to, but I absolutely hate it when people sit on their butts and complain about how bad the economy is and how stupid Bush is and everything. Complaining does not help anything. We should be VERY thankful for what we have, and it could be alot worse but people in general take it for granted.
GOD LOVER [Email], 09.09.2005, 12:05am link
I read earlier in this blog that LATIN_LOVER says that you cannot have faith without some facts. Well, that is what faith is!!!! If you are going to drag logic into religion, it will completly mess it up. No one can prove everything, although I can prove that the things in the Bible really happened. Faith is not based on facts, it is based on experiences, and beliefs.
GOD LOVER [Email], 09.09.2005, 12:09am link

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