Comments on "Its number is six hundred and sixty six"

I think the rise of fundamentalism, including the Diety-farce nuts in the US has a lot to do with Y2K.

People were REALLY expecting something to happen. It FELT right. After all, it has to be true right.

Nothing happened and they all started looking within....is god unhappy with us and that is what is holding up the second coming?

I visualize the same thing happen in achient mayan civilizations (for instance) right before they collapsed.

Its drought time and the rituals are not working. The answer...more rituals. More sacrifices. More more more. Lets get back to "basic sun god" faith.

Even then it did not work. The "sun god" did not answer.

Finally the people just walked away.

There is no god. No matter how hard you try.

D
Sierra , 25.05.2005, 11:47pm link
Tim...I also think part of it has to do with the fact the UK is older. A lot of this has been resolved and the system you have, right or wrong, probably feels harder to change.


In the US the fundamentalists feel the US is changable if they just get the right people in the right places.

D
Sierra , 25.05.2005, 11:50pm link
Sir Fred Hoyle, British mathematician and astronomer, was quoted in Nature magazine, November 12, 1981, as saying “The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way (evolution) is comparable with the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a boeing 747 from the materials within.
eternal_damnation , 25.05.2005, 11:55pm link
Iron MAIDEN IS A THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST.
THE END OF THE SONG SAYS:
****************
I'M COMING BACK, I WILL RETURN, I NOW POESESS YOUR BODY AND I'LL MAKE YOUR BURN. I HAVE THE POWER , I HAVE THE FORCE, THE POWER TO MAKE MY EVIL TAKE IT'S COURSE.
***************
NOW WHAT THE HELL IS THAT TELLING YOU?
eternal_damnation , 25.05.2005, 11:56pm link
TIM, SIERRA, CJ ARE YOU MORE INTELLIGENT THAN FRED HOYLE?
IF THE BEST MATHEMATICIAN OF ALL TIME IS TELLING ME EVOLUTION IS BULLSHIT, I'LL BELIEVE HIM OVER YOU LOSERS.
eternal_damnation , 25.05.2005, 11:57pm link
eternal_damnation - are you having a problem with your CAPS LOCK key?
I've read your posts on Brother Jeff's site and you are clearly a troll.
Maybe I'll add "tornados sweeping through junkyards" to the "explosions in print factories, watches in the street being assumed to have been created and paintings having to have had a painter" on my last post.
As for the song, listen to the full lyrics (although it is just a song ...)
Tim [Home], 26.05.2005, 12:16am link
A TROLL AND PROUD OF IT!!!! ARE YOU MORE INTELLIGENT THAN FRED HOYLE? CAN'T FACE THE TRUTH LIKE THAT MORON JEFF?
I CHALLENGE YOU TO REFUTE ANYONE OF THE 17 FALLACIES OF EVOLUTION.
THE FACT IS YOU CAN'T. CREATIONISM IS VICTORIUS OVER EVOLUTION.
eternal_damnation , 26.05.2005, 12:39am link
sounds like the devil needs some deoderant. eternal damnation, its a frikkin song. you think people would take that seriously? only bible thumpers would. its a song get over it. if you don't want to lsiten to it, then DONT FRIKKIN LISTEN TO IT. holy crap, it took me to tell you that. freedom of speech is a lovely right, and best of all, it doesn't have to agree with other people points of veiw. eternal is like the early mr.x. i wonder if this one spawned ona like a locker room floor or something. would explain his lovely manners.

oh and another thing, bible thumping hypocrits, whatever happened to the "love thy neighbor as you have loved me" thing? the only rule that really mattered, given to you by your god's son, and yet you ignore it? sounds like a one way trip to hell for you.

oh, and eternal, you can hold down the "shift" key if there's a problem with your keyboard.

i don't care what the greatest mathmatichian says. i care about people like einstein and steven hawkings (did i spell it right?) numbers are awesome and all, but its abstract thought provided by these people i listed that got us here. besides, just becuase fred doyle doesn't beleive in evolution, one of the greatest math minds ever, doesn't mean you can't beleive in evolution. its your choice, and i chose.

I always liked that monkey in my mind called "science"can't get enough of it. basically the monkey was born when i was an eight year old lutheran boy, and that monkey had some fun with the rivets that held my beleifs together of this "all loving" god with a power drill. basically, i read leviticus, and that gave the power drill abtteries.

besides, what are you complaining about, with this whole beast business? satan is basically the raw essence that is humanity, and we'd be just like him if we didn't have abstract thought that leads to morals of a better good.

and evolution is not very improbable. we've created the seeds of life before. a man tried an expirement with a beaker filled with gases and elements to simulate early earths atmosphere, and he added electricty to simulate a lightning strike. few days later, he found sludge at the bottom of the beaker, filled with the amino acids that make up DNA. the odds of a boeing 747 being assembled by a tornadoe must be very likely then.

and at least i think for myself, unlike a certain someone on this site who seems to be unable to make any desicion without someone who claims he/her is smarter.

some men made god to get by, others didn't need him. he was created by imagination, and be shattered jsut as easily with the thought "why?"

fear my imagination, for i think for myself.
CJ , 26.05.2005, 12:49am link
What one mathemetician may have believed does not make it absolutely correct. Just because people assume something to be true, does not make it so. Plenty of hugely intelligent people were athiests, and many were not. You cannot state simple examples of intelligent people then expect everyone to agree. What the majority thinks does not change reality.
But, to continue your line of reasoning, why do you take the words of a mathematician as absolute truth? After all, he was neither a philosopher nor a biologist. How can his view alone take priority over the views of many other scientists experienced in relevent fields?
Latin_lover [Email], 26.05.2005, 12:50am link
oh, and dude, eternal, fred hoyle will die like the rest of us. it doesn't matter if he has an IQ of 200. he'll still die, and someone smarter will eventually come. oh, and can you list the 17 thingies of evolution? i can't get to the site you posted :|

yep. you're probably gonna go to hell. you've ignored jesus's commands again! LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS YOU HAVE LOVED ME. fora christian who loves god, you sure like to put a hand over jesus's mouth while he's talking.

,.,.,';....;',.,.,-FEAR MY IMAGINATION!!!

time to realize there are others in the world who do not agree with you. i learned that when i was six, how about you?
CJ , 26.05.2005, 12:54am link
you'd have as much luck convincing me creationism is the only truth as you would trying to convince a biologist a carrot is a superior form of life.

BOW TO THE CARROT!

fear my imagination, with it, i can challenge all.
CJ , 26.05.2005, 12:55am link
CJ YOU ARE A DELUDED FOOL. YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT RATIONAL THINKING IS.

FROM STRYPER, MUCH BETTER LYRICS.

WE ARE THE SOLDIERS UNDER GOD'S COMMAND, WE HOLD HIS TWO EDGED SWORD WITHIN OUR HANDS, WE ARE NOT ASHAMED TO STAND UP FOR WHAT'S RIGHT,
WE WIN WITHOUT SIN, AND BY GOD'S MIGHT.

*****************

ABOUT SELLING YOUR DAUGHTER INTO SLAVERY:
2000 YEARS AGO, THERE WERE NO BANKRUPTCY LAWS, SO IF YOU OWED MONEY, YOU WERE SOLD INTO SLAVERY.

READ YOUR HISTORY YOUR TEENAGE IDIOT.
eternal_damnation , 26.05.2005, 2:18am link
The problem with christians and their lack of understanding of evolution has to do with increments.

They always ask thing like - "so one day the apes shaved and then they were human" or "so this leaf is about to get up and walk away".

They always want to go from 0 to 100 in one easy step. What they fail to understand is that nature goes one step at a time over a bazillion years.

Evolution goes on all around them every day. Retarded children, siamese twins, savants, birth defects.....all are changes (or rather mutations) nature trys out. Unfortunately they are not effective or we would see more and more of them over time.

What we do see is people getting taller and smarter. These mutations ARE more effective and OVER TIME you see more and more of them.

The diety-farce worshipers insist that the change must happen in a way they can percieve it or it is not happening.

I suppose that because sedimentary rock is not formed in a day or two is proof that it does not form at all, right.


Time and pressure my friends.


Ahhh the joys of time-lapse photography.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 26.05.2005, 2:27am link
Sorry SIerra,
time and pressure can't accomplish the miracles you claim.

GOD IS REAL.
eternal_damnation , 26.05.2005, 2:41am link
dude, god said it was fine and dandy to sell your daughter into slavery. infact, god said to slaves it was bad if a slave ran away when he had the chance. yet god said free the hebrew. sounds like this all loving god is favoring his children over the others. another thing, according to god, women are unclean if they give birth. unclean for two weeks if the baby is a girl. would you considder your wife unclean for two weeks if she gave birth to a girl? the bible says you cannot touch her for two weeks. i say to hell witht hat, thats my daughter! i don't see anything unclean about the start of a new life.

i will remind you again that this is an atheist website, where as you are welcome here (i can't really stop you, ya know.) be advised that once again, not everyone here agrees with you. and once again, waht ever happened to "love thy neighbor as you have loved me?" apparently, you called jeus a deluded fool. if there is a hell, i'll see you there. i got whippings at six, yoga and dance at four.

i will not worship a women hating child killing emotionaly controlled ego freak.

once again etenral, we have proved countless times that the earth is not six thousand years old. billions of years old, and aging. we've created the sparks of life, something "only god shouls do" oh come on, we played god when we kept terri schiavo (spell it right?) alive on a feeding tube.

time to realize that there is more then one religion in the world, and christianity is jsut one of many. yes you have competition. they're called wiccans, buhddists, athesits, jews, vodouns, stanists, hinduism, etc. the list goes on.

thats nice about the lyrics and all, but once again, tis a song. people will listen if they want to.

are you just afraid to admit to yourself that there may be other people out there with different beleifs? oh gasp! (')-(')- someone who doesn't beleive in my god! oh no, death to him/her! thats the christian way of solving problems. slaughtering those who oppose them witha different idea. you had the crusades, the spanish inquisition (very bloody for a loving god) and of course the salem witch trials. i don't see how god could just let his followers kill countless people because they don't offer their children as a sacrifice to him ('god' did indeed tempt a man to sacrifice his only son, and then yelled "haha! folled ya!")
and dude, the bible isn't part of history. yeah it was written, but to teach it ins chools would greatly tarnish the constitutions "seperation of churhc and state" rule. you can't inflict your delusions onto other people.

yes, time and pressure alone cannot acheive the miracles we speak of. time, pressure, electricty, chemical reactions, gravity, heat, radiation, dark matter/ energy...need i go on?

i honestly do think you are afraid of change. afraid to know that all you may have grown up knowing all you've been told may not be as it seems. i think you fear others for being different becuase you do not know, and you don't want to know becuase they are different. i think you are afraid of learning that there may be a better way of life, and that you must squash it. i think you're afraid that if you don't do as others say, that for all eternity you will burn (or freeze. more on that later) dude, ask yourself :is it really worth it?
i did and im really happy with my life. how about you? i don't have to fear divine punishment to be a good person. i just am.

listen to Latin_lover, he has a point. go rant and rave at him.

i'm thankful im not controlled by negative emotions as many others are. it's one less thing i have in common with people who kill gays for being different and jews for killing this jesus dude who by dying, saved all your skinny arses. one less thing in common with you. you're angry and that should probably change. i honestly heard that anger can slowly shorten your life span. that would really suck :|

fear my imagination, for with it, i can question the authority of god.

-if god has spoken, why doesn't everyone beleive?- little girls whose name i forgot

i will not suck the preists holy cock to get to heaven- D. Rounds.
CJ , 26.05.2005, 4:12am link
Hi all,
I just found this website and I'm in hog-heaven. These threads are hilarious. Why are there so many fundamentalists in America (including the very scary "eternal damnation")... The answer is ignorance of science. Stupidity is a nuisance of social evolution. It was just a few hundred years ago people got burned as witches. People like "eternal damnation" will eventually decease. Hopefully they just don't procreate. Thanks to the host. This place is great.
anywherebutneverland [Email], 26.05.2005, 9:03am link
I just hope he isn't a Catholic, or we may have to deal with more of them in a few years time...
Latin_lover [Email], 26.05.2005, 11:42am link
As an American atheist (and proud owner of all the good Maiden albums), I'd like to say that I really appreciate the opportunity to learn about how things like this are viewed by the rest of the world. There are many good things about America, but I truly envy those in more secular countries who don't have to deal with Christian extremists of this sort. Oh yeah, and from what I remember during the 1980s, these fundamentalist groups would actually buy the albums in order to destroy them (after taking them from their children too).
vjack [Email][Home], 26.05.2005, 12:20pm link
Actually, the number of the beast is 616: http://tinyurl.com/9kqg9
Danny [Email][Home], 26.05.2005, 4:46pm link
Obviously eternal_damnation is a troll/idiot/both, but it's worth pointing out that Fred Hoyle's quote is based on a misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. It's also worth pointing out that if e_d thinks an argument like "are you more intelligent than Fred Hoyle?" is valid, then, being so keen on the argument from authority, he should probably shut up and accept the opinion of the overwhelming majority of smart scientist types.
Ben [Home], 26.05.2005, 6:59pm link
yeah. eterna; damnation is pretty funny. he's like a retared parrot rocking back and forth on his perch going " there is a god...there is a god..." while waitng for for his ADHD pills.

its nice hearing other voices on this site finally other then eternal ignorance. i was actually starting to miss mr.x. mr.x. doesn't bitch about how wrong we are or that we're going to hell, etc.

andanywherebutneverland has a point hough, and i'd like to ask a question: are bible thumpers like eternal so insecure that they go looking for "blasphemy" to ease their suffering?

so far i like the new voices though,especially vjack. all the iron maiden reconds (kick ass!) and ben as well as danny. seems as though the world is starting to ahve a "think for yourself" gene going around.

FEAR MY IMAGINATION FOR WITH IT I CAN QUESTION THE AUTHORITY OF GOD HIMSELF.

and another thing i heard, it was pretty funny: arguing with the majority on the internet is like the special olympics. even if you win, you're still retarded. (no offenese to any out there with mental handicaps.honestly) and lol latin, i get it.

,.,.,';....;',.,.,-grr! fear my questions!
CJ , 27.05.2005, 1:53am link
done rnating for awhile. jsut had a fairly tiring day, so i'm bound to be a bit crabby. and is it true the G. Bush just outlawed gay marraige? i hope not.
CJ , 27.05.2005, 1:57am link
Non-Atheist vs. Atheist

Convincing a believer to be a non-believer is as hard as convincing a non-believer to believe. Because it is a polarized discussion, there is absolutely zero room for a middleground. Heated disagreement is inevitable. For the rest of my breathing days I will get befuddled by people chalking up events to supernatural causes. In a true civil discussion with believers, it is hard to present facts without stating (directly or indirectly) that the other person is a dumbshit (directly or indirectly).

Getting upset about believers is the same as getting upset about anything, the results are personally unhealthy mentally & physically. Rather than getting upset that people are "believers," I choose the following explanation.

Humans are hard-wired to explain things. In absence of a rational explanation, the huge majority of humans accept answers based on belief. Any belief "rationally" presented can easily be swallowed and the mystery is no more. The huge majority of humans have never heard of Half-life Carbon Dating and thus have no concept of Earth's 4.5 billion year history. When you don't understand science, it is very easy to discount it.

In conclusion... Rather than convince believers to be a non-believer, I talk with them leaving my atheism undisclosed. This allows me to learn their political intentions and I can focus my efforts on twarting their actions. Life's a bitch, I might as well have fun.
anywherebutneverland [Email], 27.05.2005, 2:52am link
yeah, carbon dating is a really neat thingy to throw into a conversation when ina religous argument. i finally learned the formula and how it works during my science test. makes sense to me.

if they respect my beleifs, i'll respect them.

yep life's a bitch. sometimes the only way to have fun is at someone elses expense. not that i care, summer's going to be hot, and i got me about thrity extra large water balloons. gonna soak me some preppies.

kinda sad though that the basics of science isn't introduced into elementary schools until about third grade. make things alot easier to explain to the kids in my science class.
CJ , 27.05.2005, 3:09am link
Agreed CJ. My 14 year old boy has a good appreciation of science and an understanding to "save his breath" whenever Jesus enters his discussions with his peers. T.V. shows like South Park allow very frank discussions with him on serious topics. Plus the show's frickin' funny. Anyway, good threads. Fun discussions. Later.
anywherebutneverland [Email], 27.05.2005, 3:19am link
actually south park is on right now in CA. im still in high school, but i've seen alot of kids who don't know when to shut up. sounds like your son is a very smart guy, keep up the good work!
CJ , 27.05.2005, 5:31am link
I love all these ideas,I hope you all realize that one side could not exist without the other!! also that you can't know what anything IS unless you understand what it IS NOT!!!!
william , 27.05.2005, 3:12pm link
"For the rest of my breathing days I will get befuddled by people chalking up events to supernatural causes. In a true civil discussion with believers, it is hard to present facts without stating (directly or indirectly) that the other person is a dumbshit (directly or indirectly)."

Tell me about it. I just got back from New Zealand where one night I got talking to an extremely attractive young lady, only for things to go tits up when she revealed her belief in God, the afterlife, ghosts, the soul, UFOs and psychic contact with the dead. I'm afraid that for a moment I lost control of my facial muscles and pulled a grimace so severe I may as well have stood up, thrown her drink over her and shouted 'moron!'. For reasons I've yet to work out, I then proceeded to attempt to argue about the existence of such things, all the while with a voice in the back of my head - God maybe? who knows - screaming "stop! Oh the humanity!"

I recovered swiftly but alas, the damage was done. I could've wept, I tells ya, principles be damned.
Ben [Home], 27.05.2005, 9:14pm link
yeah, those kinds of things can really throw you off. i don't care that some of my friends might be chrisitan or not. they don't really care and can diss their own beleifs without yelling "sinner"to other people.

and yeah, i know that these lovley arguments couldn't exist without the other side, but we seem to be having problems making room for the many sides in the world :|

call me crazy, but i actually beleive that there might be life somewhere out there. contact is just so slim that radio contact from their planet to ours is like trying to hit a bullseye with a dart from fifty feet away. just so many planets that the circumstances for life are bound to happen elsewhere. as for psychics, its cute and all, but i don't care one way or the other. but contacting the dead seems ridiculous.

p.s., did anyone here hear about the pastor who told his congregation to dress up as the spanish inquisition and convince their children that they'd kill them if they didn't dress as angels? he said that if they go as an alien, they'd beleive that the "anit christ" is an alien and join his side, etc. load of bullshit if you ask me. and woukld the anti christ be a black deaf blind mute girl born of a man? :) lol, had to say that.

later days yo!
CJ , 27.05.2005, 10:02pm link
There are many christian fundementalists because American is an intelligent nation, loved and blessed by God.

I have pro-created and more of my types will be running around. We are far better than the Tim's, Sierra's and CJ's.
You just too blind to see my friends. The evidence is right in front of you. There are valid explanations of why the world is in the state it is.
None of you have been able to refute one of the 17 facts that disprove evolution.
Not surprising!!
eternal_damantion , 28.05.2005, 12:00am link
CJ, TIM , Sierra read and learn.


"The entire hominid collection known today would barely cover a billiard table, but it has spawned a science because it is distinguished by two factors which inflate its apparent relevance far beyond its merits. First, the fossils hint at the ancestry of a supremely self- important animal - ourselves. Secondly, the collection is so tantalizingly incomplete, and the specimens themselves often so fragmented and inconclusive, that more can be said about what is missing than about what is present. Hence the amazing quantity of literature on the subject ever since Darwin's work inspired the notion that fossils linking modern man and extinct ancestor would provide the most convincing proof of human evolution, preconceptions have led evidence by the nose in the study of fossil man."
(John Reader, Whatever Happened to Zinjanthropus? New Scientist Vol. 89, No.12446 (March 26,1981) pp 802-805))

"The evolutionist thesis has become more stringently unthinkable than ever before."
(Wolfgang Smith Ph.D.)

"The only competing explanation for the order we all see in the biological world is the notion of Special Creation."
(Niles Eldridge, PhD., palaeontologist and evolutionist, American Museum of Natural History).
eternal_damantion , 28.05.2005, 12:09am link
more evidence against evolution.

Darwin's Own Confession

"Not one change of species into another is on record ... we cannot prove that a single species has been changed."
(Charles Darwin, My Life & Letters)

"To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree."
(Charles Darwin, Origin of Species, chapter "Difficulties")
eternal_damantion , 28.05.2005, 12:10am link
Charles Darwin is probably the worst person to quote when talking about evolution vs creationism as he was more confused than anyone.

The above quote from e_d was indeed from On the Origin of Species, published in 1859, however in The Descent of Man, published 12 years later in 1871, he states:

"Man with all his noble qualities...still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin."

And in an earlier chapter, on man's probable ancestors:

"A hairy quadruped, furnished with a tail and pointed ears, probably arboreal in its habits."

Which sounds pretty much like a chimp or other great ape (except the tail, of course). So Darwin was as confused as the rest of the world at the time but at least was trying to make some sense of what he saw, rather than blindly accepting faith and dogma.
bogue , 28.05.2005, 3:05am link
Keep it up E_D, all you need to do now is doubt the accuracy of carbon dating, and you've won Creationist bingo!

With regards to the Darwin quote about the eye - it's a classic example of a creationist quoting something out of context. To quote Richard Dawkins, "You will find this sentence of Charles Darwin quoted again and again by creationists. They never quote what follows. Darwin immediately went on to confound his initial incredulity."

Hell, even the hilarious Answers in Genesis website tells its followers not to use that quote, because "it is subtly out of context."

And even if the Darwin quotes were spot on, don't you realise it doesn't make a blind bit of difference? He could've renounced the whole thing immediately after publishing it and it wouldn't matter one tiny iota - he would've just gone from being right to being wrong. That's where we differ mate - I don't believe things just because someone with fancy qualifications or claiming to have special access to God tells me to. So stop with the "and this bloke's got a PhD, he must be right!" arguments. Evidence, e_d, that's the stuff that impresses me, and the stuff your lot so sorely lack.
Ben [Home], 28.05.2005, 10:03am link
Oh, and I realise that arguing with you is akin to banging my head against a brick wall, but since when was copying and pasting random quotes from Darwin "more evidence against evolution"?
Ben [Home], 28.05.2005, 10:07am link
Eternal Damnation: I can't speak for Tim and Sierra, but I AM smarter than Fred Hoyle, and his waspish attacks on evolution are just a straw man. Evolution is NOT about things "falling together by random chance"; nature works by ratcheting up and saving what's good, and discarding what isn't. Hoyle's surly opposition to evolution is because of his pet hypothesis that life originated elsewhere and cam to Earth by hitchiking on a comet, a notion that's been rebutted time and again. Hoyle, however, still clings tenaciously to the notion because it's his--thereby falling foul of Sagan's baloney detection kit.
So, strawman and pet hypothesis; two logical fallacies in one package. And that's the best you can do...?
Tony [Email], 28.05.2005, 10:11am link
Tony,
you've demonstrated your stupidity. Your smarter that Fred Hoyle? LOL!!! LMAO!!!! We know who Fred Hoyle is , but who the hell are you? Some university student in the the UK, who has had 10 beers tonight? How many books have you written? Are you a faculty member at a university?
Your not impressing me with your strawman crap, I took philosophy too. Impress me with something else. Actually prove evolution happened.
And don't give me ad homniem, or logical bullshit.
Are you the smartest person on this planet tony? Are you the best mathematician of all time? You probabably are in your own mind.
eternal_damantion , 28.05.2005, 12:31pm link
Ben,
evolutino is crap. Not one of you on the website can prove it, because it didn't happen.

Until, you can do that, just shut up and keep your bs comments to yourself.
eternal_damantion , 28.05.2005, 12:32pm link
eternal_damantion - the comments on this site are open to anyone. I haven't banned you or deleted your comments despite you being an arogant shit, so please don't tell other people to keep their comments to themselves.
Tim [Home], 28.05.2005, 1:30pm link
Note to "eternal damnation." You're the funniest part of these links. It's good to have an obvious reminder that religions and zealots such as you need to be dealt with on a daily basis.

Question to "eternal damnation." Would you please follow this website's link to "Evil Bible Home Page" and give me your thoughts? I am curious how God's children view His book.
Thank you.
anywherebutneverland [Email], 28.05.2005, 6:58pm link
P.S. to Tim,
Thank you again for having this website. It's a terrific boost to my sanity.
anywherebutneverland [Email], 28.05.2005, 7:02pm link
eternal_damnation, let us see your proof of creationism. Of the two theories, evolution is far more credible. While we haven't been able to observe macroevolution, we have shown that microevolution occurs. We can't see macroevolution simply because it takes place over tens of thousands of years. We only have scientific records for just a infinitesimally small fraction of that time. On the other hand, we shown that microevolution (small changes in gene frequencies over a few generations) does occur. A common case in point is the development of bacterial resistance to antibiotics. A bacteria has a favorable genetic trait if a certain antibiotic does not kill it. This useful mutation is passed down, making future generations resistant to the antibiotic in question. Elements of the theory of evolution have been observed, and demonstrated. That's more than I can say about the Bible's claim.

Your comment, "...Until, you can do that, just shut up and keep your bs comments to yourself" brings to mind a quote by Voltaire: "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." While we may find your claims as ludicrous, we certainly won't restrict your right to express them. Don't you dare tell us what we can and cannot post on our own site. If you are offended by our views, you certainly don't have to be here on this site.
An American nonbeliever , 28.05.2005, 8:41pm link
eternal damnation is so funny. its people like him that remind me of all the funny things in a america. like the insane asylum. a casual stroll through one can show you all religion ahs done for us. if i rmemebered correctly a man on death row there in order to save his skin yelled "i am jesus christ!" he died minutes later by gassing.

and we can prove evolution is happening. you're just afraid to admit to yourself that you may be wrong. read your damn biology textbook for once.

and fred hoyle is one man in a world approaching 7 billion. there is someone smarter. if there isn't right now there will be. and would you stand by fred hoyle if he told you to slit your wrists? i sure as hell wouldn't. besides, he will die eventually, just like you and me.

freedom of speech is an awesome thing. especially during these circumstances. you're a bible thumping obedient servant of the church, on an atheist website telling us to shut up. how much trouble did you go through to find this website in the first place? msut've been really bored.

and of course darwin refuted his own facts. its a FRIKKIN' theory. one that alot of people stand by now. he was living in the era of bible thumping psychopaths who killed non-beleivers for pleasure. he was saving his skin. and why do you never finish the quotes that come right after the one YOU quote?

and i will remind you all right niow that this is NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION. it may have been built off of some chrsitian principles, but seperation of churh and state was included. of the fifty three (right number?) people who singed the constitution, only three were christian. the rest were theists, atheists, and i think there may ahve been a buddhits or something. for a "christian" nation, there seem to be alot of atheistts, wiccans, jews, and hindus.

and why the hell are you you so obsessed with this fred hoyle man? i haven't heard of him until a few weeks ago. are you really that desperate to find someone who agrees with you on something?

and once again, whatever happend to "love thy neighbor as you have loved me" thing? if you loved us as much as you love jesus, you're buying yourself a oneway ticket to your hell. i can see the love your life has brought, thank you for cheering up my day. being a good christian does not mean being a small-minded ass tick to anyone who isn't like you.

mind you, if this nation was blessed by "god" why is there so much hate going on between chrches and why are the catholic priests telling little boys to suck their cocks? if this is what god wanted for america, im going to canada.

only by religion can man murder another so happily and without a second thought.

-if god has spoken, why isn't the wolrd convinced?-shelly

-all things foul and ugly, creatures short and squat, putrid foul and gangrenous, god made the lot-monty python

open your eyes E_D, there are people different then you, and you can't stop them.

done ranting and still beleiving in evolution.
CJ , 28.05.2005, 10:43pm link
CJ,
YOU AMUSE ME. YOU HAVEN'T REFUTED ANY OF THE FACTS AGAINST EVOLUTION. WHY DON'T YOU GO TO THE WEBSITE AND READ. BIOLOGY TEXTBOOK? I READ MINE AND REJECT EVOLUTION. A HIGH SCHOOL MORON LIKE YOURSELF WILL NEVER BE IN THE CLASS OF FRED HOYLE. WHEN YOU PUBLISH IN ACADEMIC JOURNALS AND EARN A PHD IN MATH OR PHYSICS, I'LL TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY. CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IN FAIRY TALES. I'LL BELIEVE THE TRUTH.
BIBLE IS THE TRUTH.
eternal_damantion , 29.05.2005, 12:13am link
CJ, EVERY POSTING HAS REFERENCES TO ORAL SEX. WHY ARE SO OBSESSED WITH IT?
YOU MUST BE GAY.
eternal_damantion , 29.05.2005, 12:14am link
and whats wrong with gays? they win your wars and elections, they're your doctors, your brothers your sisters your parents your preists and your popes.

the whole "i will not suck god's holy cock to get to heaven thing" is basically this: i wont blindly obey this god because he says so.

and damn it all, list the frikkin evidences. i just get redirected to something in german for some reason :|

and are you and this fred hoyle person having an affair? you seem quite keen on his everyword. i think there's a mix-up on whos sexuality we should be questioning.

and what do you mean fairy tales? only in fairy tales do you find your fairy god mather and demons and imp and leprechauns. quoting someone from an earlier post: eternal, when you read your bopoks, do the little pictures pop up?
fairy tales aren't backed up with ahrd core fact. science is. neither is your book.

go ahead and worship your women-hating, child-beating, emotionaly-controlled ego freak.

i already scored the highest grade in my physics class by the way.

take anywherebutneverland's advice and go to the link "the evil bible." it is for these various reasons i became atherist. mind you, i found those things years befroe ic ame to this site.

GAY PRIDE!!!
still straight, CJ
CJ , 29.05.2005, 12:39am link
and why are you so insistant on calling us foul anems? it gains you nothing but our ahtred. not to emntion, where's your "love thy neighbor as you have loved me" thing? if you love jesus as you love eneryone on this website, i can't help but to wonder who's going to the lowest layers of hell.

remember the carrot.
CJ , 29.05.2005, 12:47am link
and why are you so insistent on calling us foul names? it gains you nothing but our hatred. not to mention, where's your "love thy neighbor as you have loved me" thing? if you love jesus as you love eneryone on this website, i can't help but to wonder which of us is going to the lowest layers of hell.

the crusades, spanish inquistition and salem witch trials are my reasons for not beleiving.

killing people in the name of god is a pretty good definition of insanity, don't you agree?

remember the carrot.
CJ , 29.05.2005, 12:49am link
V(F)^2 - V(O)^2 = 2 * a * s.
WHAT DOES THIS EQUATION MEAN CJ?
FRED HOYLE IS THE GREATEST SCIENTIST OF ALL TIME. I'M NOT HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH HIM, BUT AM IN AWE OF HIM.
EVOLUTION IS A FAIRY TALE AND A HOAX. THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT (PILTDOWN MAN, NEBRASKA MAN ARE FRAUD'S). WE WERE CREATED BY GOD. THIS IS A FALLEN WORLD AND BAD THINGS HAVE HAPPENED. EVERYTHNG WILL BE FINE WHEN HE RETURNS.
GOD IS NOT ANYTHING THAT YOU CLAIM HE IS. YOUR PETTY JUDGMENTS MEAN NOTHING TO GOD. HE HAS NOTHING TO PROVE TO YOU.
eternal_damantion , 29.05.2005, 1:10am link
e_d: "EVOLUTION IS A FAIRY TALE AND A HOAX. THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT (PILTDOWN MAN, NEBRASKA MAN ARE FRAUD'S)."

If you think so, fine, but please provide some scientific evidence for a) creationism and b) the existence of God or some other such deity (and scientific evidence does not include quoting Fred Hoyle, other eminent scientists or the lyrics of a christian rock band).
bogue , 29.05.2005, 4:19am link
Oh and another thing, slightly off topic. Since Pope John Paul II died there have been many calls for him to be made into a saint. One of the heads of the conclave of bishops at the vatican has said that this should take place quicker than the obligatory 5 year waiting time.

What made me wonder is that to become a saint, miracles need to have been performed and this bishop said that Pope John Paul II had performed many such miracles that were real and demonstrable (apologies, I can't remember the exact quote).

So could someone please point out to me these miracles - I don't mean the 'miracle' of staying alive as long as he managed, or of bringing joy and comfort to millions of people around the world (Elvis does that as well and he isn't up for sainthood).

No, real, evidential and demonstrable miracles are there for all to see, apparently, so please point me in the right direction as I am fascinated.
bogue , 29.05.2005, 4:27am link
Does that fact that E_D is reduced to telling me to shut up mean that I win? Excellent, if only all internet flame wars could be resolved so quickly!

Anyway, E_D, you haven't yet answered my first point - of course you haven't, you're a creationist troll - about Fred Hoyle misunderstanding evolution with his junkyard quote. That's ok though, cos I'm not really trying to convince you so much as just highlight your foolishness. Here's another one - you keep wibbling on about the Piltdown Man, but fail to point out that the Piltdown man hoax was exposed by - yes! - scientists. Assume for a second that Piltdown man somehow supported the idea of Creationism instead - maybe by having "Made in Heaven by God" inscribed on a thigh bone or something - and imagine what the reaction of the god-botherers would be. What are the odds it would immediately and forever be hailed as conclusive proof of god's existence and then locked away from the troublesome sceptics who are slightly troubled by the fact that the glue sticking the bones together wasn't quite dry? Turin Shroud, anyone?

And you talk about the Piltdown hoax as though it was a vital piece of evidence in favour of evolution, without which the theory could not stand. It wasn't, and before the hoax was exposed it was viewed as an anomaly that didn't fit in with the other homind fossils on record. Please, I beg you, be the first creationist to actually read a Talk Origins link and go take a look at this.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/piltdown.html
Ben [Home], 29.05.2005, 11:31am link
Sorry, just re-read e_d's post and noticed this line "FRED HOYLE IS THE GREATEST SCIENTIST OF ALL TIME".

Now I don't know an awful lot about Fred Hoyle, but I suspect people such as Newton, Einstein, Galileo, Coppernicus, Curie, Hawking etc might just have smomething to say about e_d's assertion.
bogue , 29.05.2005, 12:16pm link
Sorry to post agin, not trying to monopolise. I said above that I didn't know much about Fred Hoyle, so just googled him and got this from the BBC website:

"Sir Fred also rejected Darwin's theory of evolution, putting forward the so-called Panspermia Theory, which suggests that life, or the building blocks of life, could be carried to planets by comets or drifting interstellar dust particles.

He believed it had all been arranged by a super-intelligent civilisation who wished to seed our planet."

Now sorry about this, eternal_damnation, but this does not sound like a bloke rejecting evolution in favour of creationism. To be perfectly honest he sounds like a complete loon to me. A brilliant astrophysicist, maybe, but with views like this, a loon.

The BBC link is http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1503721.stm
bogue , 29.05.2005, 12:27pm link
IT STILL MAKES MORE SENSE THAN EVOLVING FROM APES.
TALK ORIGINS IS A LOAD OF BS.
EVOLUTION = MAGICAL THINKING AND REQUIRES MORE FAITH THAN CHRISTIANITY.
THERE IS NO PROOF OF EVOLUTION.
IT IS FICTION!!
eternal_damantion , 29.05.2005, 2:11pm link
And you wonder if Sir Fred ever took it a step further and asked himself where the super-intelligent civilisation came from. It's the same logical flaw that creationists skip past when they claim that life is too complex to have evolved. More complex than a magical being that can create a universe and populate it with living creatures?
Ben [Home], 29.05.2005, 2:25pm link
Sorry e_d, I don't think you understand - you started banging on about no scientific proof for evolution and as I said, fair enough if you want to believe that, but please provide some scientific evidence for creationism.

Pretty simple question, I think.
bogue , 29.05.2005, 2:29pm link
BEN,
something doesn't come out of nothing. DNA,RNA, COMPLEX AMINO did not arrive by random chance. Learn some probability theory.
where there is smoke, there is a fire.
You think your intelligent by questioning the bible?
eternal_damantion , 29.05.2005, 7:36pm link
Hey eternal_dumnation. i'm gonna rub your nose in your own flawed "logic" and point out that einstein had no problem with evolution. Are you smarter than einstein? Smarter than dawkins? gould? hawkings? feynman? sagan? smarter than 99.999% of all serious scientists?
didn't think so...
brad the impaler , 29.05.2005, 11:37pm link
Oh E_d, my little slice of foolishness, do you not realise that by wibbling about probability you make the creationist cause worse? DNA, RNA etc are less likely than an all powerful creator that sprang from nowhere? Bless!

But thanks for turning the caps lock off, you seem ever-so-slightly less insane in lower case letters.
Ben [Home], 30.05.2005, 1:07am link
*sumg bastard hat on*

by the way, it's 'you're' when contracting 'you are'.

*smug bastard hat off...hmmm..appears to be stuck*
Ben [Home], 30.05.2005, 1:14am link
ah, crap, "sumg"? Damn the ale, damn it!
Ben [Home], 30.05.2005, 1:15am link
Einstein believed in God, "brad the inhaler". Stop smoking dope before writing stuff on the is web-board. No , I'm not smarter than those guys, however I know my ancestor is not a "human-like" creature. I only see humans reproduce humans.
Evolution never happened.
eternal_damantion , 30.05.2005, 2:22am link
Ben, please get a brain and think. God is eternal, and was never created. Is that too difficult to understand? You UK morons drink too much beer and that clouds your thinking. Just like Tim, Sierra, CJ, the alcohol has clouded your judgement. Evolution is full of contradicitons and is logically impossible (Is that right Tony?).
By the way, show me how evolution follows the scientific method?
eternal_damantion , 30.05.2005, 2:25am link
"eternal damantion (sic)" is football man
Yahoo , 30.05.2005, 5:46am link
Eternal is one of the best of examples of how religion ruins your mind.

The only thing apparently eternal about "god" is that there is always another simple-minded follower ready to forward "his" cause.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 30.05.2005, 5:46am link
holy crap there's been alot of posts while i was gone. and since eternal is so upset about coming from apes, are you more comfortable knowing you were made of mud? last i checked, i bleed blood. not dirt and worms.

and einstein did not beleive in god. sure he was jewish, but he just kept the morals and the traditions. and why did you only point out einstein instead of the others?

people like E_D are the reason i became and atheist. all it took was seeing my friend receive stitches from a bible thumper that convinced me that this loving god may not have been so truly loving if this ia how his followers act.

oh, and you just contradicted yourself. you said earlier fred was a great mathematician. now you say that he's the greatest scientist of all time.

and i, unlike you E_D, do not drink alcohol. christians do, i hate the stuff. it took one look at the car wreck outside of my school to swear off alcohol.

and if humans only reproduce humans, how do horses and donkeies make mules?

scientific method step 1: a hypothesis: i wonder why finches have diffenet beaks?

step2: expirement: if these finches have different beaks, why do those finches have DIFFERENT beaks? i will relate them to birds based on diet, size, life patternes, etc.

step3: observation: the finches with the sharper beaks use them to eat the bugs on that island, but there are no bugs on this island with bugs so thats where the round beak finches eat nuts.

step 4, conclusion: if these birds survived on that island because the food they are designed to eat is there, i wonder if they adapted over time to become accustomed to eating that.

next step, communicate results get input. if problems come up, go back and try again witha different expirement, etc.

wondering if all my posts were this long, CJ
CJ , 30.05.2005, 6:07am link
ps, do you really think you can convince all these people to follow your emotionaly controlled god?

and another thing: if the earth is 6000 years old, explain to me the roots of what is now called Wicca. if god didn't make the world until 6000 years ago, then for about 10,000 years and up, witches apparently didn't need air. their religion is much older. not wicca itself. the term "wicca" is about fifty years old. witchcraft itself is many tens of thousands (maybe even hundreds) of years old. just wanted to clear that up before someone points out that Wicca was made fifty years ago. i'm talking about the same religion thousands of years ago that jsut used a different name.
CJ , 30.05.2005, 6:12am link
forgive the pun... but god i love this site!
anywherebutneverland [Email], 30.05.2005, 9:32am link
About the 'mathematition' stating the probabvility that life could evolve..

Probability after the fact is meaningless. If you hold the winning lottery ticket in your hand, do you deny it exists because the odds of you winning are astronomical? No, you go cash it in.
Gilgamesh [Email], 30.05.2005, 11:31am link
'Bible is the truth' - eternal_damanation (can't even spell 'damnation')
If you think that 'The Bible' is in any way a historical and/or scientific text, then you have obviously not read it. The bible is a fraud, a fabrication, and for anyone to believe otherwise they would have to be totally unfamiliar with it. My advice for anyone who actually believes in this collection of fables: sit down where you will not be distrubed, and read the silly thing from the beginning of Genesis to the end of Revelations, and then try and tell the rest of us (and with a straight face) that you still believe it to be 'the word of dog' (oops, sorry, god). People such as 'eternal_damanation' (lol) make me long for the days of Nero and Julian the Apostate.
PA , 30.05.2005, 1:13pm link
Correction. He spells his name as 'eternal_damantion'. Sorry, my mistake (but it's still wrong anyway).
PA , 30.05.2005, 1:17pm link
lol, i just realized that PA!
CJ , 30.05.2005, 6:14pm link
E_d - or eternal_damantion, if you prefer - I don't suppose you'd care to explain why you demand - and then ignore - scientific evidence for evolution, but quite happily accept the idea of an all-powerful being that has always existed and can create a universe, with nary a jot of evidence to support it. I think we've taken this argument as far as it can go, at least you aren't pretending to have a scientific basis for your views anymore.
Ben [Home], 30.05.2005, 6:44pm link
Religion is not much different than stupidity.

Some people look at a set of facts or circumstances, come up with the wrong answer, and we call them stupid.

Other people look at a set of facts or circumstances, come up with the wrong answer, and beat us to it by announcing, "I am religous, I have faith".

RELIGION = STUPIDITY

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 30.05.2005, 9:37pm link
Am I the only one who notices spelling mistakes?
Why can't you people review your writing before you post it and look like a retard? Some of you make Atheism look retarded. Anyways, I just have to say that unfortunately Evolution doesn't seem possible to me, and neither does the idea that an omnipresent, invisible man created the universe in a week. If God did create the Earth, how come he hasn't destroyed it yet considering how fucked up everything is?
It doesn't make any sense you religious morons, and you know it but don't want to believe it. It's absolutely amazing how people can be controlled so easily.
Mike [Email], 30.05.2005, 9:53pm link
wow!!!! Is it possible that both ideas are valid? LIFE=GOD!!I believe in God,and have read the bible, and one things for sure God DID NOT write all that bullshit!!, now I only read the four gospels,and other writings I find inspiring... I like the idea that death is an illusion, only life is real!!
william , 30.05.2005, 10:49pm link
Dear brothers, it matters not how we arrived here, we are here and need to learn to love each other.
Brother ED, I don't believe in evolution because we are spiritual beings having a human experience.

"yesterday is but a dream and tommorow only a vision, but today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tommorow a vision of hope. Look well toward's this day. "
Mr. X , 31.05.2005, 12:17am link
Brother ED, God is within. You and I are equal cells in this body called humanity. ED, show love and compassion to others. You must see the essence of God in them too.
Mr. X , 31.05.2005, 12:18am link
To eternal_damantion:

Let's see why your bestest mathematician is wrong.

Let's see on this example. Let have a monkey that will constantly try to type the phrase "Religion is Bullshit", and yeah you would have to wait forever to see this to happen. But let change experiment a bit, let do the following: when the monkey hit the right character in a right position, then we keep that character, and so on. So, eventually after probably 2000 tries you'll the phrase "Religion is Bullshit" forming. If you don't believe create a computer simulation program and any phrase you choose will be formed within a sec on a modern computer. TRY IT!!!

So, the evolution works the same way, i.e. step by step!!!!!!
Roman, Boston , 31.05.2005, 12:44am link
Ok, Roman Boston let me show you how your argument is flawed. With numbers like 10^100 which you obvioulsy no freaking clue about, the monkey would require an "infinite amount of time" to copy out the webster's dictionary or the building blocks of matter. That's not a problem for your bird-brained evolutionists. If an infinite amount of time is required, then evolutionists will just say the earth is as old as evolution needs.
Yes, an event of finite probability in an infinite universe will happen, the question is, how long will it take. I challenge any of you non-drunk evolutionists to answer that question. Hey Tim, get out of the pub and go home.
eternal_damnation , 31.05.2005, 1:24am link
Hey Roman, try your experiment with a word that is 25000 character's long. Tell me how long it takes for your computer to spell it out.
Prove to me that a change "sticks" once it happens.

EVOLUTION NEVER HAPPENED. CAN'T YOU JUST ACCEPT THE TRUTH?

BTW: TIM WHY IS ALCOHOLISM SUCH A PROBLEM IN THE UK? CAN'T WAIT FOR ALL THE CAR ACCIDENTS WHEN THEY OPEN PUBS THERE 24HRS. THAT'S ALL THE UK NEEDS, DRUNKS ON THE ROAD AT ALL HOURS OF THE DAY.
eternal_damnation , 31.05.2005, 1:28am link
To eternal_damnation:

well, actually 25000 characters will work same way since by each call like a thousand of them will be correct in right positions.

So, go pray to Jesus, looser :-)
Roman, Boston , 31.05.2005, 1:37am link
To eternal_damnation:

oh, also, why you think it is only one monkey, it is a gazillion of them, i.e. gazillions of operations happen in the universe at the same time.
Roman, Boston , 31.05.2005, 1:51am link
Bible bullshit has to have everything tightly constrained for it to not work. Leafs have to walk, monkeys have to type dictionaries...

Evolution does not say that.

Evolution has a bunch of monkeys sitting around a bunch of typewriters. If one monkey starts to type, and this ability makes him more successful in mating and surviving than all the monkeys that don't, then over time ALL MONKEYS WILL TYPE.

If it is not a useful change, nature will not likely go very far with it.

Since god is so god-dammed dependant on worship, offerings and acknowledgement for his spectacular greatness, why was the earth around billions of years (a fact we know to be true) before he created man?

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 31.05.2005, 2:07am link
yeah, and why is eternal damantion so insistant on wanting to hear our veiws, only to ignore them when we grind them into his/her face?

and who are you to talk about drunks eternal damantion? you drink frikkin' wine some dude told you was blood! i don't know about you, but i think your the one more likely to become an alcoholic.

E_D is a perfect example of the love that comes from christianity. just think, if everyone had the love E_D has for others through religion, there wouldn't be anyone left on this planet to bitch at. they'd have killed eachother off by now. thats why there's diversity and more than one religion.

what ever happened to "love thy neighbor as you have loved me" thing? jesus gave it to you, and if it's true, you like jesus as much as you like all the atheists here. i know someone here who has bought themself a one way ticket to their hell. and turn off your capslock, it only shows how desperate you are for attention. can't face the silence that surrounds you?
CJ , 31.05.2005, 3:44am link
aaah c'mon e_d les' not fight anymore yer me besht mate, hones'ly, s'you an' me against the world, giveusahug...

*hic!*

what you fuggin' look at?
Ben [Home], 31.05.2005, 5:57pm link
Eternal_Damnation can you please post the link to the site with the 17 fallacies of evolution on, so i can try disprove your bullshit.

I have searched google to find these (lost link so cant post) and most were easily explainable with physics.

PS Tim can you please separate these posts into pages (e.g about 50 posts per page) as my firefox (1.0.4) seems to refuse to read the bottom of the page when there are too many posts.
Dodge , 31.05.2005, 8:39pm link
Ben, your gay!!
Roman boston, a sequence 25,000 characters long has 25000! permutations. 25000! = 25000x24999x24998 X ...X1. DO you know how big that number is you idiot?
Go ahead an try on your computer. One billion monkeys typing for a billion years couldn't do it.
EVOLUTION NEVER HAPPENED.
eternal_damnation , 31.05.2005, 11:32pm link
Hey DOdge I posted in a previous link. Don't ask Tim to do anything, he's in a pub on his 10th guiness.
UK = DRUNK LOSERS.
eternal_damnation , 31.05.2005, 11:33pm link
CJ, READ THE END OF THE BOOK. WE WIN, AND YOU WILL GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY. ENJOY THE HEAT!!
eternal_damnation , 31.05.2005, 11:34pm link
ED - Ben's gay what? And does his gay [whatever] have to do with anything?
Dodge - I know, it's a pain in the arse. I use Firefox for everything apart from looking at my own site! It's the comments which make the pages too long, and I can't do anything about it. Have you tried using Opera?
Tim [Home], 31.05.2005, 11:45pm link
eternal_damnation i cant find the link in this thread, can you please post it again.

Also Tim is not in the pub, you moron. Thats just some retarded stereo-type you americans have of us. Im British too and i can tell you not everyone goes to the pub. I take it your american, how would you like it if i took your whole country by your stereo-type ?? - fat,lazy,stupid sub-human scum.

Tim - i dont want to have to install more web browsers. If you cant split your comments into pages then i shall email mozilla now.
Dodge , 01.06.2005, 12:19am link
Its christians that give christians a bad name.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 01.06.2005, 1:06am link
Hey Dodge, you UK DRUNK LOSER. GO have another guiness. Sierra, you have to back up a fellow american from these pompous ass English morons, even if I'm an evangelical.

Try this link:
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-156.htm

Gee Tim, did you make it home from the pub safely? No toilets on those ugly tube trains.
How many Pints this week? > 20? They should triple life insurance premiums for UK LOSERS.
eternal_damnation , 01.06.2005, 1:12am link
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! this from the super christian puppet telling me i'm going to hell! i'll see you there then! i got whippings at six, dance and yoga at four. i know you'll be there, because you keep ignoring the one commandment from your lord jesus: Love thy neighbor as you have loved me! if you love us as much as you love jesus, you're clearly going to hell! i will remind you once again that being an atheist, i don't beleive in the scare tactic you call hell. it was made in the dark ages for the church to gain power by scaring the shit out of others to make them become christian. and hell is not hot. if hell is designed to hold infinite souls, then it must be infinitley large, therefore the heat is spread through out etenrity, thus hell is cold. not that bad if you ask me.

i laugh at you E_D (see above if you missed it because you're to focused on your dying religion) if this is honestly the best you can do to make more christian puppets, you'll have a better chance of convincing a biologist a carrot is a superior life form.

and if all UK people are drunks, all americans are fat, loud, lazy, and have to rely off of others to do their work. and i can say this all i want. i am american, and i'm sad to say that for a third of our population, it's true.

and what book are you talking about? you flawed book of life, the "bible?" read it and i don't beleive. go thump your bible at someone else, like buddhists. i notice taht you only seem to focus on atheists, and not others like buddhists or pagans. are you afraid? i already know the pagan way is much better then your bible slavery. "And it harm none, do what thou wilt."- witches creed, the first rule.

do understand jesus-slave, i would more liekly become pagan then a lemming of christian. pagans are awesome, nice, responsible people who actually do things in their religion to help others instead of yours, where all you do is yell "sinner" at passer bys.

Love thy neighbor as you have loved me. hmph, wonder what got you away from that rule? and is calling the UK people drunks really going to help? no, it isn't.
CJ , 01.06.2005, 2:02am link
eternal_damnation, you are an idiot. You donot even understand what i was talking about. what 25000 permutations, this is not the case here. But anyway, I am not going to waste my expensive time by arguing with someone whose is so stupid as. Take, probability course again, idiot.
Roman, Boston , 01.06.2005, 2:08am link
Well, actually spend some time to explain, so you might understand.
Say we have 30 different characters (i.e. letters etc.). So, you have 25000 character phrase. for each of position the probability that the character will be correct is 1/30. Now that means that would mean that something around 25000/30 = about 830 characters will be in right position just in first trial. but then we fix those positions and continue, so now we have about 24170 characters left, againg second trial will give about 24170/30 = about 805 charcters in right positions, which we fix and so long....
so, the probability that you will reach the goal after some number (like say a couple thousands) trials is very very high!!!

So, please, before typing your next dumb comment, THINK about it, and THINK YOURSELF, without bible and any other "popular" material.
Roman, Boston , 01.06.2005, 2:17am link
Oh, just one last thing. Of course, of course, of course. The numbers there not absolute, i.e. i donot expect exactly 830 characters be in the right position.But you can be pretty much sure that it will be something from 400 to 4000 (whatever the actual number will be) characters to be in the right position. So, i hope that will be clear to you!!!
Roman, Boston , 01.06.2005, 2:40am link
Look at these humerous religious cartoons on evolution i found

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1051/1051_01.asp
Dodge , 01.06.2005, 4:00am link
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp

these make me laugh so much.
Dodge , 01.06.2005, 4:01am link
i know chich.com. biggest load of religous bullshit you can find. i play D&D (Dungeosn and Dragons) and there is not a single incantation in any of the books telling me how to contact satan. once again, if any religion is satanic, its christianity. the whole thing on wiccans worshipping satan is a load of bullshit. the wiccan god was put in churches by the first wiccans who were thoguht to be "convereted" so that they could worhsip their god of nature infront of the inquisition and get away with it basically.

the wiccan gods are far more loving then the chrisitan ones. its christian ignorance that turns these loving gods into evil for the world. in their quest to prove the world is evila dn ugly, bible thumpers have made the world evil and ugly.

AND IT HARM NONE, DO WHAT THOU WILT.
CJ , 01.06.2005, 4:24am link
by the way e_d, do you have somethign against gays? i am part of the gay straight alliance, and they're just fine by me!

They win your elections
They die in your wars
who they sleep with at night
is no business of yours.
-hail to the cheif
CJ , 01.06.2005, 4:33am link
Eternal,

I would defend a brit before an idiot like you. All things considered the UK folks are damn fine people and a good ally.

You on the otherhand are a moron.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 01.06.2005, 6:25am link
Roman, you dumb ass, learn your math before you write. Do you know what a permutation is? Like some lotto's , order matters, just as in DNA and genetic sequences. 25000! is an enormous number, more than 10^100. Don't waste time, your high school moron. GIve me a mathematical proof that you can reach the goal in 2000 trials. If you can't then shut up and don't waste my time. Learn your math and then talk.
eternal_damantion , 01.06.2005, 11:43am link
CJ. Gay is not OK. Can't answer my question on physics? You got an A?
eternal_damantion , 01.06.2005, 11:44am link
SIERRA, GO COOK DINNER FOR YOUR BETTER HALF.

You are one of us, right-wing and god loving. You can't fool me with "there is no god".
eternal_damantion , 01.06.2005, 11:46am link
DODGE, you drunk, listen to Jack CHick and you might be saved. DID YOU AND TIM GET HOME FROM THE PUB?
eternal_damantion , 01.06.2005, 11:47am link
ED is a troll.. And no ED, that isn't a compliment.

Idiot
Gilgamesh [Email], 01.06.2005, 12:57pm link
resorting to petty insults are we e_d?
is that because you have no basis for your argument except a 2000 yr old book of fairy tales?
good work there, looks like you proved us right.
Dodge , 01.06.2005, 2:14pm link
Ok e_d heres the rsponse to your fallacies of evolution.

in a list
1.No Evolution at Present
2.No New Species
3.No Known Mechanism of Evolution
4.No Fossil Evidence
5.No Order in the Fossils
6.No Evidence That Evolution Is Possible
7.No Evidence From Similarities
8.No Recapitulation or Vestigial Organs


1- evolution takes thousands of years, you cant just expect to grow a pair of wings overnight, it doesnt work like that. We are evolving, we are gettin smarter (well we are, i dont know about you, your still in the dark ages), humans are getting taller and there are a few other examples i cant remember.

2- Darwins finches on the galapagos islands. There are 14 species derived from 1 in the space of about 500 years by allopatric speciation. There will be many other examples of this but this is the most famous. We have only been recording species for a few hundred years, which, in terms of evolution, is a relitively short amount of time.

3- called reproduction moron. When humans reproduce, there genes are spliced to create the offspring. During creation there may be a mutation which will lead to either positive or negative traits. If negative then the offspring usually dies, but if positive then this trait will survive and give this offspring an advantage over others, which will then be passed down when he/she reproduces. Thats GCSE biology, doesnt take a genius.

4- There is plenty of fossil evidence to support the theory of evolution, there is just not sufficient proof to show we evolved from apes. Only the tiniest fraction of any creature are ever fossilised, due to the unique nature in which they're created. if it wasn't for our rampant ecological destruction, there'd probably be less than a hundred human fossils in a few million years as an indicator of our existence.

5- fossils used to be dated by what layer of rock they were in, which can lead to inaccuracies, but nowadays we have modern dating tecniques such as carbon dating. This tecnique is proven and is accurate. This means fossils can be dated easily, so order can be found in the fossils.

6- Plenty of evidence, read other explanations. As for the sites arguement on entropy, i dont know how to answer that except for the fact that if it was true, then would that not make things such as reproduction impossible? particles should move apart not clump together and grow. As for the external force acting on that, i dont know, but it should be the same force that caused the original mircrobes to reproduce in the first place.

7-Bats, Wales, Humans etc all mammals have a carpel ulna radius i.e same bones in the arm just arranged differently to give a fin or a wing etc, shows decent from a common ancester. See Darwin Finches explanation.

8- Vestigial Organs are "useless" organs believed to have been useful in an earlier stage of evolution. can anyone say appendix ??
Dodge , 01.06.2005, 4:02pm link
im not a biologist so if anyone wants to add to this be my guest.
Dodge , 01.06.2005, 4:03pm link
Gay is awesome! Homosexuals are part of the economy as much as the next preist! christianity was invented (and copied/ mutilated) from other religions for power hungry freaks own gain. they doctored it so taht it would suit them, and wouldn't cha know it, he sees a pair of men kssing. he syas "ew" and gets his followers to go forth and smite like there's no tommorow. and i pass my science test with a 98.2% (i actually completely mixed up the fussion equation for the suns hydrogn into helium)second higest grade in the class. not bad if you ask me.

and as for gays, i am part of the GAy-Striaght Alliance (GSA) becuase i am one of the few people at my school hwo relaize homophobia is a waste of time. and it really is a GSA, we have three gays and lesbians, three bisexuals, three straights, and three people who are still wondering about that. thye are all nice people and don't deserve an eternity of hell as much as you deserve an eternity of paradise. no one deserves one or the other.

They win your elections
They die in your wars
Who they sleep with at night
is no business of yours.
the stregnth of our nation (USA) its power and might
rests with who our soldiers
may sleep with at night.
-Hail to the Cheif

Gay pride and somewhat hungry, CJ.

and nice point there dodge, i forgot about the appendix there for a second. it's a cute little nothing on the side of your stomach that doesn't do any good or harm for those of you who forogt their biology :)
and taht whole mysterious force taht causes particle to clump together may be explained with either the String theory (all atoms are amde of vibrating abdns of energy) or the dark matter laws ( or at least the part on dark energy. could explain alot)

and eternal, waht question didn't i answer? must've missed it earlier.
CJ , 01.06.2005, 10:04pm link
and jack chick is the msot predjudiced person i know of. he and the KKK should have a feild day sometime.

love thy neighbor as you have loved me. -Jesus.
why is it you people ignore your own rules for your personal gains? your still going to die at the end.

Jack chick did no research wahtsoever and relied off of stereotypes for his comics. kinda like E_D. i remember the buddist mafia and that wiccans worship satan. not the truth. i'm close friends with a wiccan, and he by far is one of the nicest people i know.

And it ahrm none, do waht thou wilt- withces creed.

if only christians could adopt this...
CJ , 01.06.2005, 10:09pm link
oh forogt to emntion: wiccans don't worship satan. nor is the pentacle evil the pentacle is the ultimate symbol for a anture absed religion, if you take a perfect pentacle and measure the sides of the pentagon on the inside and do a formula (i forgot waht it is, i'll post that tommorow) you get Phi. a number found throughout nature. doesn't seem satanic to me.

and the wiccan gods are found throughout the world under different names :the goddess (goddess of the cycle of life and birth, the moon, etc.) and the god (god of nature and animals, etc.)are found all over the palce,a dn not one of them tells you to burn your neighbors crops and rape their virgins. it's the christian god who says that.

go tot he humor section on this site and read "kissing hanks ass" christianity ina nutshell.
CJ , 01.06.2005, 10:14pm link
CJ -

Why is it so dammed impontant that gays throw their sexuality in everyone face?

Of all the posts I have read in here you are the only one who felt compelled to try and justify who they were sleeping with.

Why can't you be gay in private? If you want to be nasty and unnatural go ahead, but why can't you do it in private?

Gays seem to be demanding rights and recognition.

Why don't you insist on the RIGHT to a little public decency and the RECOGNITION that most people would prefer not to hear about your emotional struggle.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 01.06.2005, 10:28pm link
Wow Sierra,

you sound just like a right wing christian. Yea, bloody gays - why can't they do it in private I wish they would recognise that people don't want to hear about their emotional struggle. Just like people don't want to hear from blacks, women, the disabled, war veterans, children, immigrants, the elderly and other substandard outcasts of our society. We only want to see fat right wing white pricks demanding rights and recognition. And cash!
Yahoo , 02.06.2005, 12:08am link
Gays have a disgusting lifestyle and live short lives. They are most promiscuous group out there. Not surprised they are ravaged by AIDS.
FOr a pathetic 1% of the population they are, they don't deserve special rights.
Good going Sierra, come home and support us.

TIM, DODGE , go home, 10 pints is enough.
eternal_damnation , 02.06.2005, 12:23am link
CJ, your gay, and worship the gods of wicca. WHy don't you just admit it? You shouldn't be promoting homosexuality. The gods of wicca will seal your fate.
eternal_damnation , 02.06.2005, 12:24am link
Thanks for the compliment Gilgamesh.

TROLL AND PROUD
eternal_damnation , 02.06.2005, 12:25am link
EVOLUTION COULD NOT DO THIS

One research scientist, *T.A. McMahon, worked out the formula for the general size and height of trees. The mathematical formula goes something like this: "The diameter of trees will vary with height raised to the 3/2 power; that is the length times the square root of the length." That is surely a lot for a simple-minded tree, without any brains to keep track of. Here is more of the formula: "The mean height trees obtain is only about 25 percent of that which they could obtain and still not buckle. In other words, trees are designed with a safety factor of about four." Someone very intelligent did the designing. We should not expect that the trees figured it out.

Open challenge to you evolutionists. Prove that this process could evolve over time?

EVOLUTION NEVER HAPPENED.
eternal_damnation , 02.06.2005, 1:35am link
e_d keep off the insults, your not fooling anyone. That is not the way to prove a point, it only belittles yourself and shows to us that you and your religion are wrong. Fight with facts, not with insults.

e_d you dumbass, animals dont just think "hey wouldnt it be better if we had a pair of wings?" and then grow them, there is no choice in how you evolve. You dont have to be an intelligent being to evolve, its all a matter of environmental factors and breeding.

Sierra - being gay is natural. Many scientists belive that it is a genetic problem, cant get any more natural than that. Even if it isnt who are you to judge? They make them selves known and heard in public because even though they deserve as much rights as anyone else , they dont get them. I am not gay myself but i have no problem with them expressing themselves.

e_d AIDS affects many more people than just the gays. Being homosexual is not the only way to catch it, may hetrosexual people have the disease too. Look at africa, fastest spreading religion is catholisism which does not condone the use of protection during sex. That is the main reason why aids is going to fuck the world over, not being homosexual.
Dodge , 02.06.2005, 1:59am link
e_d all the trees that evolved with a different safety factor DIED becuase they were flawed.
Dodge , 02.06.2005, 2:02am link
sierra, im trying to get the message to E_D here that like it or not, gays are ehre tos tay. and another thing (cool report i read) that if we didn't grow up with our parents show us basic heterosexual behavior, we'd all be bi? adn waht do you ,mena "ravaged by AIDS?" gays never were the only people whog to aids. it wasa fricans first, then doctors and surgeons, then it was a myth that only gays could get aids. last i checked, the virus doesn't give a shit how holy you are. no amount of praying can save you froma slow painful death. and for soemthign "unnatural", quite alot of people have seemd to have been gay since humans began to make fire. it's not like you decide to be agy as you decide that girl is really hot. gays are here, and they aren't going anywhere. they a ren't asking for sepcial rights no more then you're asking to be castrated. all they want is to be married and not have to go to canada to do it. no shit gays want rights, even in america they're still getting the shit beaten out of them for being who thya re. didn't a gay man get tied to a fence and beaten, then left to die all alone? goes to show the love in ths world. whether it because your bible says to or not, it's still murder.
and no, i am not gay. i was responding to E_D previous posts up there. it seems taht you call everyone who wants to hug you gay. whatsamatter, did your dad never hug you?

and its not intelligence that doesn't cuase trees to buckle and break, their genetics make them rather durable and resistant to the dangers in their surroundings. like the red wood, and hardy durable tre here in california that has adapted a rather interesting bark to help it survive the fires that rage across this part of the nation.

and at I least don't worship your emotionally controlled, women-hating child beating ego freak of a god E_D.

still straight (as i've posted before)and still supporting the rights of gays, CJ.

PS. what do you mean disgusting? its not like men don't care about hygeine. AIDS never was just a gay thing. it originated in africa, not a homosexual.
And yahoo, you have quite a good point there.
CJ , 02.06.2005, 2:17am link
Dodge, your a moron, and drink too much. Finally get home after 15 pints of Boddington's?
How many did Tim have? He's probably still at the pub on this 20th.
So the trees with a different safety factor died? Your right, and the earth is trilions of years old for random chance and trial and error to get it right. Right Dodge, with an infinite amount of time, you can do anything. Question is, you don't have that much time.
You haven't refuted anything.

CJ, if your walking around with Shit on your dick everyday, your bound to get something. This aint no 24hour virus or cold. It's God's way of saying, hey fellas, wake up and smell the toast.
The anal cavity was not engineered for that person. Homosexuals are not monogamous. If you think they are, go back to fairy tale class you high school dimwit.
eternal_damnation , 02.06.2005, 2:47am link
"Present-day ultra-Darwinism, which is so sure of itself, impresses incompletely informed biologists, misleads them, and inspires fallacious interpretations."
Pierre-P. Grasse,

"It must be significant that nearly all the evolutionary stories I learned as a student have now been 'debunked'.

EVOLUTION NEVER HAPPENED.

http://www.evolutionisdead.com

"The creation account in Genesis and the theory of evolution could not be reconciled. One must be right and the other wrong. The story of the fossils agreed with the account of Genesis.
In the oldest rocks we did not find a series of fossils covering the gradual changes from the most primitive creatures to developed forms, but rather in the oldest rocks developed species suddenly appeared.
Between every species there was a complete absence of intermediate fossils."

WHERE ARE THE INTERMEDIATE FOSSILS DODGE!!
eternal_damnation , 02.06.2005, 2:53am link
MORE CRUSHING BLOWS TO EVOLUTION. DO YOU KNUCKLEHEADS NEED MORE?
COME ON TIM, CJ, SIERRA, CHALLENGE THESE CLAIMS. I'M KICKING YOUR BEHINDS TO PLUTO.
BROTHER JEFF, IF YOU READING THIS, I GOT THREE WORDS FOR YOU, BRING IT ON.

"The driving force behind Darwin's theory of origins was blatant racism, not science. Remember, the evidence that Darwin was a racist is easily discovered, he did not hide it. It can be seen in the subtitle selected for his 'The Origin of Species'. The words he chose to describe his effort were: 'The Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life'. That should be enough for anyone. Darwin was out to prove the superiority of the white race over the black. That goal was at the core of his stated thesis! He had an agenda, and that agenda was not scientific."


"It is not difficult for me to have this faith, for it is incontrovertible that where there is a plan there is intelligence - an orderly, unfolding universe testifies to the truth of the most majestic statement ever uttered - 'In the beginning, God.'"
Dr. Arthur H. Compton,
Nobel Laureate (Physics).

"The curious thing is that there is a consistency about the fossil gaps — the fossils are missing in all the important places."
Francis Hitching,
The Neck of the Giraffe or Where Darwin Went Wrong, Penguin Books, 1982, p.19

"Firstly, why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms?

Why is not all nature in confusion instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?"
Charles R. Darwin,

"The theory of evolution suffers from grave defects, which are more and more apparent as time advances. It can no longer square with practical scientific knowledge."
Dr A. Fleishmann,


"Ironically, although it has been over a hundred years since Darwin's time, we now have fewer examples of 'transitional forms' than we did then. Instead of having more (as Darwin had hoped for), we actually have less.
This is because some of the old classic examples of evolution have been recently disregarded due to new information and findings, and no new transitional forms have been found.
Despite these insurmountable problems, the dauntless faith of the evolutionist persists."
Scott M. Huges. PH.D


NEED MORE IDIOTS!!! GO VISIT THE SITE.

SORRY GUYS, THE BIBLE IS THE AUTHORITY OF GOD, AND THE TRUTH.

I REST MY CASE.
eternal_damnation , 02.06.2005, 3:05am link
"So the trees with a different safety factor died? Your right, and the earth is trilions of years old for random chance and trial and error to get it right. Right Dodge, with an infinite amount of time, you can do anything. Question is, you don't have that much time.
You haven't refuted anything"

wtf read my points, i think i refuted it perfectly well. The earth is not trillions of years old, as i can remember its about 2-6 billion years which is proved using carbon dating and other modern dating tecniques.

You can throw in as many quotes as you want, and we can find quotes for evolution too, bring in facts to the table. Also good work for the 23yr old quotes about fossils that mean didly-squat in this era.

Driving force behinf Darwin is racist ? last time i checked Darwin was ridiculed by most of the western popultaion for his theories, if so then why would they ridicule something that set out to prove their dominance?

As for evidence, as i said before, only the tiniest fractions of creatures ever become fossilised. And occording to your responses there were fossils before god supposedly created man, where did these come from?

As for your pathetic little biased website, i shall read it tomorrow because its 3:35 in the morning and i want to watch family guy.

Still slinging the insults i see. If you want people here to treat your opinions with respect and credibility you may want to stop that.
Dodge , 02.06.2005, 3:40am link
p.s. the bible isnt the authority of god, The new testiment was written half a century after jesus died and was edited extensively by the church. What you read today is a book full of fairy tales created to suit the reigion. The only teachings you can take from it are morality and values, it has absolutely no historical fact.
Dodge , 02.06.2005, 3:42am link
Exactly,

Trees with other height to strength ratios did not make it. Who knows...high winds...etc...so we arrive at the the ones we have.

Its just like a lottery. Millions of people buy tickets. Very few win, but for some HIGHLY IMPROBABLE things line up and they are rich.

As far as gays go, do as you like. I am just sick of hearing about it. I'm straight and proud of it, but for some mysterious reason have never felt the need to tell anyone at all.

I have never once stood around a campfire with other men and felt the need to announce that I preferred women, but for some reason, if there is a gay guy in the midst they feel compelled to tell you EVERY TIME.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 02.06.2005, 4:44am link
i agree. the bible is always being changed to suit the time/events/ region.

and one usually doesn't stand up and yell out "i'm striaght!" thats a a bit of a foax pah (or whatever)

and by the way E_D it says that your wife is unclean if she gives birth. if my wife gave birth, wouldn't shun contact with her, i wouldn't give a shit about waht anyone says about "she's unlean!" i have a baby! holy crap, awesome!

and i unlike you E_D know that AIDS when you get it is there to stay. no amount of holiness is going to save you when you drop dead from a cold.

and as for fairy tale class, i left it. it was called "church" there i learned all sorts of amazing BS! like walking on water, and that god has anger issues! and we're made of mud, oh joy!

dodge, which family guy is it? i always wanted to see the one where they survie the nuclear winter off of twinkies.

-silly american! you cannot harm a twinkie!-Apu, after homer crushes a twinkie in rage. the twinkie merely reinflates itself :)

Listen to E_D, for he spreads the "love" ^%@#&* that is god and jesus.

Still straight, CJ.
CJ , 02.06.2005, 4:57am link
ahaha that site is a joke e_d.
The top qoute and most rated on the quotes page states

"One of the most specious analogies that cosmologists have come up with is between the origin of the Universe and the North Pole.
'Just as there is nothing north of the North Pole, so there was nothing before the Big Bang.' "

and then it goes to say

"Voila! We are supposed to be convinced by that, especially since it was Stephen Hawking who dreamt it up. But it will not do. The Earth did not grow from its North Pole.
There was not ever a disembodied point from which the material of the planet sprang. The North Pole only exists because the Earth exists-not the other way around."

AHAHA what sort of explanation is that. Theyve missed the point entirely. The earth did not start from the north pole, but the quote doesnt state this. It sais there is nothing north of the north pole, theres a huge difference. Every point on earth from the north pole is in a southern direction.

its not even worth me reading the rest of that crap if thats the best they can think of.
Dodge , 02.06.2005, 1:42pm link
CJ - i was watchin family guy s2. I did watch that ep yesterday. I suggest dl the episodes off bittorrent/irc/overnet of however you like to dl stuff, cos family guy is amazin. Not as good as Invader Zim or Aqua Teen Hunger Force though, they rule !!
Dodge , 02.06.2005, 1:43pm link
Comments seem to have moved from country bashing to gay bashing.
I wrote about "homophobic rationale" ages ago on my other blog, if anyone's interested:

http://www.timsellers.net/winston/2004/07/almost-wish-i-was-gay.php

More on evolution vs. creationism in the next post!
Tim [Home], 02.06.2005, 2:44pm link
Like I said Tim, be gay all you (they) want. I'm just sick of hearing about it.

Gays and god-s helpers have a lot in common. In particular they both feel the need to prothletyze and force their beliefs on others.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 02.06.2005, 4:10pm link
gays dont force their beliefs on others, they want recognision and equal rights which is something they dont get.
Dodge , 02.06.2005, 4:31pm link
Sierra,

"I'm straight and proud of it, but for some mysterious reason have never felt the need to tell anyone at all."

that would probably be because as a straight person you don't get denied certain rights, have never had the crap beaten out of you by queer-bashers, or even had your straightness used to insult you. Tell me, back in the days of Martin Luther King, would you have thought him an uppity black man shoving his colour in your face and forcing his beliefs on you?

But enough! This website isn't called Homophobia is Bullshit!
Ben [Home], 02.06.2005, 6:06pm link
Ironically Iron Maiden as far as heavy metal bands are the least demonic devil worshiping band in existance. They haven't had the drink / drugs problems of other bands of their ilk and are well educated artists. Take Bruce the lead singer the utterer of the evil lyrics, he is an olympic fencer, has written childrens books and is tetotal and drug free, and doesn't even smoke....
redfred [Home], 02.06.2005, 7:05pm link
hes also a pilot.
Dodge , 02.06.2005, 7:15pm link
I'm sure he has plenty of other talents too, not least a pretty decent voice.
redfred [Home], 02.06.2005, 7:34pm link
Bullshit.

Name a SINGLE right a gay person does not have that a straight person does.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 02.06.2005, 8:12pm link
marrage.
If a couple are life long partners and one becomes ill or dies, then the other is not seen as next as kin so has no rights.

They are also discriminated upon.
Dodge , 02.06.2005, 8:32pm link
Sierra, I'm not getting into a gay rights debate on this website unless it's from a religious viewpoint. If you're desperate for a debate on the subject, my contact details are on my blog.
Ben [Home], 02.06.2005, 8:33pm link
i remember invader zim. my favorite line was when zim got his robot, GIR, who promptly started beating himself up.

Zim:um...is it supposed to be stupid?

Tall Ones: it's not stupid. it's advacned

:)

the only right a gay person is denied is a union, or marriage if you can call it that.

but lets move onto soemthing else. this is getting a little wearing :|

still straight and suppoting gay rights, CJ
CJ , 02.06.2005, 11:21pm link
Gay men can marry just as straight men can marry. In fact, every peoson has exactly the same right there - to marry a person of the opposite sex.

How is that unequal?

Sorry if that dosen't do it for them, but they are asking for a "special" right.

Tough.


There is no god.

D
Sierra , 03.06.2005, 12:24am link
Gay men can marry just as straight men can marry. In fact, every peoson has exactly the same right there - to marry a person of the opposite sex.

How is that unequal?

Sorry if that dosen't do it for them, but they are asking for a "special" right.

Tough.


There is no god.

D
Sierra , 03.06.2005, 12:26am link
people of the same sex cannot marry each other which is unfair if the couple love each other. The reason that governments refuse to allow this right is because of the churchs dominant role in society, and most in the church believe it is unholy.. blah blah blah [insert sack of horse shit here] because they all still live in the dark ages in terms of beliefs.
Dodge , 03.06.2005, 12:31am link
Bullshit. The bible may be against it, but lets be real.

I love my dog. He seems to like me. Should we be able to marry?

Can I marry a child?
Can I marry my sister or brother?
Should I be able to marry more than one person?

Society puts a few limits on marriage, but everyone has the SAME rights.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 03.06.2005, 12:37am link
i don't think there's any alw saying you CAN'T amrry an animal,though it would be absurd. you can't amrry a child, they are too young. i beleive you can marry more then one person (certain religions, regions,etc.) i think there's something against marrying your relative.

gay marraige (union) is another thing. gay people aren't allowed to marry due to religous persecution in the disguise of politics, because so many people in our ignorant governmant relies off of christian laws to decide their decisions.
"hmm, if the bible says there can't be gays, then the rest of america says there can't be gay marraige too! makes sense to me!" gay persocution is entirely christianity based.

can we move onto anoter topic? i'm starting to miss our arguments on politics and idiots around us, like goerge bush:|

poli:many
ticks:blood sucking parasite
therefore, politics=many blood-sucking parasites!

:) lol
CJ , 03.06.2005, 1:17am link
er, sierra, you appear to have repeated yourself there...

and not all gays get the same rights, not only marraige, bt the rights to life liberty and happiness. gays are denied liberty by banning thier right to marraige, gays are denied hapiness by persecution, and gays are often denied life. like that gay man who was tied to a fence, beaten, and left to die cold and alone.

there, now i'm done, phew!
CJ , 03.06.2005, 1:20am link
"poli:many
ticks:blood sucking parasite
therefore, politics=many blood-sucking parasites!
"

I've seen this on a forum for Civilization Fanatics.. :)

Whats it from?
Gilgamesh [Email], 03.06.2005, 12:40pm link
Given that marriage is a christian ceremony, why do gays want to "marry" when the bible says they should not.

Too many people take their "faith" buffet style.

It would be like if I lived in the UK and wanted to join the TALL ATHEIST HUNTING CLUB (I made that up) but in fact I was short, catholic and a rabid animal-rights advocate.

Peoples choices in life determine their options and untimately their life's outcome.

Poke butt if you must, but in doing so you must accept that it will affect your life.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 03.06.2005, 3:53pm link
Most people (except for the christians) do not see marrage as a religious event. Marrage is not just for christians, everyone in every faith (i think) has some sort of marrage or variance of it.
Most people use registry offices to get married as they are not associated with any religion.
Marrage joins to people together and gives the couple rights towards each other, such as inheritance and next-of-kin recognition. Gays are refused this right due to predjudiced people that refuse to allow them rights of any other couple. Homosexuals deserve these rights as much as anyone else.
Dodge , 03.06.2005, 5:21pm link
Homos have these rights. A gay person can may anyone of the opposite sex he chooses. He can also create all the legal paperwork to afford anyone else he wants the same constructive rights.

The gays complain because their sexual behavior is constrained. The people over at NAMBLA (look that one up) complain about the same thing.

Men should not be marrying other men. Period.

Lets be real.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 03.06.2005, 6:04pm link
ahahaha pedo club. Sex with children is WRONG and anyone that cant see that needs help. Im not even going to read that site, i think the southpark episode put it well enough for me.

A gay person does not want to marry someone of the opposite sex, they want to marry someone of the same sex which they are not allowed to do.



on another note, this just disgusted me when i saw it, check this out: -

"President George Bush is reported to have said that the US cannot sign up to UK plans to double aid for Africa in the next decade because it does not fit the American budgetary process"

original source
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4605811.stm

America are so into freedom and liberation, but when it comes to the lives of the millions of people in Africa, they dont give a shit as they have nothing to gain, theyd rather spend the money on war and even more weapons. They only cite these things when the purpose suits them, they have nothing to gain from helping Africa, but in the middle east they can get a larger cut of the oil.
Dodge , 03.06.2005, 6:23pm link
heres a better article on the debt relief.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4606197.stm
Dodge , 03.06.2005, 6:27pm link
But if we double aid presumably we are doubling intereference. I mean surely we shouldn't be obligated to give money to murderous regimes without insisting on change and then, once they have cashed the check we will catch hell for messing with their way of life.

Screw them.

On the gay thing:

I can not marry:

Children
Animals
Brother / Sister
More than one person (at once)
People of the same sex.

Gays can not marry:

Children
Animals
Brother / Sister
More than one person (at once)
People of the same sex.

THEY HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS!!!

Now, if we allow same sex marriages for them, by default then should we not allow plural marriages - I mean - thats the arrangement THEY want and presumably they are consenting adults who love one-another too?

Its all BULLSHIT. The gay rights argument is BULLSHIT and most importantly...RELIGION IS BULLSHIT.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 03.06.2005, 10:18pm link
gays don't want your rights to marry the opposite sex, they want the right to marry people of the SAME sex. it's been done throughout history and is done all over the world, except in america.

basically, a marraige is a joining of two lovers (legally) into a family. if two gay men love eachother, who's to say they can't LIVE with eachother? i'm pretty sure neither you nor i can't.

it's not the way anture works taht says they can't marry, it's our messed up christian infiltrated government that sayst hey can't because they want to "appeal to the majority of america" unfortunately for them, the minority of gays is growing rapidly. denying gays the right to amrraige is like denying a black amna nd a white woman to marry.

everyone in america is granted the right to happiness. the problem is that some people can't stand seeing two women kssing eachother on the hilltop. it's not for them to judge who they can't live with.

actually my friend has a lesbian parent married to another lesbian (long stroy there :|) and she owns her own business called "the gaming pears" ors oemthing like that, and she works at people soft. i can see why she divorced her husband though. her ex-husband is the biggest bitch you'll ever meet. all he does is scream at his kids.

and gilgamesh, i heard the politics thingy from my dad :)
CJ , 03.06.2005, 10:36pm link
Gareth: He should just get his wife to help him.
Tim: He doesn't have a wife.
Gareth: All farmers have wives.
Tim: This one doesn't, he's gay.
Gareth: Well, then he shouldn't be allowed near animals then, should he?

Sierra IS Gareth from The Office.
Ben [Email][Home], 03.06.2005, 10:39pm link
i wonder if would be considdered a crime in any other place in the world aside froma merica to smack goerge bush one in the face...

Goerge bush: monkey, living proof of evolution :) i wondered what he traded in? strength, intelligence for...oil? lol, not to mention, he looks likea onkey :)
CJ , 03.06.2005, 10:40pm link
im beginning to sense a connection here ben... THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE...
CJ , 03.06.2005, 10:42pm link
CJ -

You said "everyone in america is granted the right to happiness."

Really?

Where on earth did you get a silly idea like that?

Who granted that right? Its not in the constitution.

Perhaps that is why you are misunderstanding.

As far as gays marrying...no matter where you set the boundries of behavior in society, some people will still find themselves outside of them. If everything in the US were legal except...say...burning trash piles on wednesday's..some people would still end up on the wrong side of the law.

Lets be honest...gays was a NEW right, not equal rights. Call it what it is, lets vote on it and then EVERYBODY must accept the result.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 04.06.2005, 12:16am link
i'm so lost about what the hell you jsut said...then a gain, i'm rather tired :{|

i remember a similar incident a few years back with martin luther kind jr. he fought for the rights of blacks becuase they had to pay extra to vote, could only eat at cetain restaruants, and got killed and assualted. waht did the law do to stop racism? nothing, until Dr.King and his followers used peaceful protest to eliminate something they knew was wrong.

it's the same with gays. not only are they denied their right to marry their gay lovers, but they are discriminated and beaten for being who they are.

would you beat a gay man, but a not a black man for being who they are? this is another version of Dr.King's quest in the making.

who are you to determine who gay people can't marry?
CJ , 04.06.2005, 12:44am link
and once again, all gays want is to marry their gay lovers. nothing more. i don't see anything wrong with that.
CJ , 04.06.2005, 12:46am link
once again, i'm the only one talking :| my miatake above: we hold these truths to be self evident blah blah blah... that all men are created equal (and women!)...and among these rights are life, libery, and the pursuit of hapiness...blahblahblahblah...yeah, that was basically my 8th grade history class. the thing i stated above was my typo :)took long enough for my fat teacher to have a heart attack. all she ever did was yell and bitch at us :|
CJ , 04.06.2005, 12:49am link
Addiction To Unverifiable Speculation

"A long-enduring and regrettable effect of the success of the Origin was the addiction of biologists to unverifiable speculation.
'Explanations' of the origin of structures, instincts, and mental aptitudes of all kinds, in terms of Darwinian principles, marked with the Darwinian plausibility but hopelessly unverifiable, poured out from every research centre.
The speculations on the origin and significance of the resemblances between animals, or between animals and their environment and of the striking colour patterns they often exhibit, constitute one of the best-known examples." W. R. Thompson,
Entomologist and Director of the Commonwealth Institute of Biological Control, Ottawa, Canada

EVOLUTION IS DEAD.
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 04.06.2005, 1:00am link
EVOLUTION IS A HOAX!!! THE BIGGEST JOKE OF THE 20TH CENTURY
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 04.06.2005, 1:01am link
I simply cannot believe that there are people as appallingly ignorant as 'eternal_damnation'. He keeps saying 'Fred Hoyle says this, Fred Hoyle said that', on and on and on. So Fred Hoyle claimed not to believe that evolution takes place. So what? He is just another fallible human being (like your false prophet/demigod Jesus) who happens in this case to be wrong.
No matter how many people believe the bible to be 'the truth' it will still be wrong; the truth is not determined by popular consensus, but via an investigation into the facts.
Eternal_damnation, why don't you go away until you can actually make a positive contribution to this whole debate. Until then I suggest you go back to (primary) school, where some people actually still believe in fairy-tales.
PA , 04.06.2005, 1:03am link
One other thing; you prove your ignorance once again by stating that 'evolution is the biggest joke of the 20th century'. Wake up mister, it's the 21st century and evolutionary theory was actually formulated during the 19th, not 20th century. On top of all this, even if it did, in fact, turn out to be wrong, that would NOT automatically make 'creationism' (now THAT is one very sick joke!) correct.
I would rather DIE first than be converted to you perverted, sick, twisted ideology!!!!! Read the WHOLE bible before calling the rest of us 'losers' you pathetic piece of christian crap!!!
PA , 04.06.2005, 1:12am link
PA, YOUR AN IGNORANT FOOL. DIE TONIGHT, TRADE THE DUSK BEFORE THE DAWN FOR ETERNAL MIDNIGHT. EVOLUTION IS A PILE OF SHIT!
"There is no more conclusive refutation of Darwinism than that furnished by palaeontology. Simple probability indicates that fossil hoards can only be test samples. Each sample, then, should represent a different stage of evolution, and there ought to be merely 'transitional' types, no definition and no species.

Instead of this we find perfectly stable and unaltered forms persevering through long ages, forms that have not developed themselves on the fitness principle, but appear suddenly and at once in their definitive shape; that do not thereafter evolve towards better adaptation, but become rarer and finally disappear, while quite different forms crop up again.

What unfolds itself, in ever-increasing richness of form, is the great classes and kinds of living beings which exist aboriginally and exist still, without transition types, in the grouping of today." Oswald Spengler,
The Decline of The West: An Abridged Edition," [1926], Oxford University Press: New York NY, 1991, p.231. (Emphasis in original)
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 04.06.2005, 2:07am link
"We have proffered a collective tacit acceptance of the story of gradual adaptive change, a story that strengthened and became even more entrenched as the synthesis took hold.
We paleontologists have said that the history of life supports that interpretation, all the while really knowing that it does not." Niles Eldredge,
Chairman and Curator of Invertebrates, American Museum of Natural History, "Time Frames: The Rethinking of Darwinian Evolution and the Theory of Punctuated Equilibria," Simon & Schuster: New York NY, 1985, p144)

"No. It is not Christianity which need fear the giant universe. It is the creative evolutionist ... who should tremble when he looks up at the night sky. For he really is committed to a sinking ship.
He really is attempting to ignore the discovered nature of things, as though by concentrating on the possibly upward trend in a single planet he could make himself forget the inevitable downward trend in the universe as a whole, the trend to low temperatures and irrevocable disorganization.
For entropy is the real cosmic wave, and evolution only a momentary tellurian ripple within it."

EVOLUTION IS DEAD.
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 04.06.2005, 2:10am link
Don't Teach This in High School!

"One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary view, was ... it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years and there was not one thing I knew about it.
That's quite a shock to learn that one can be so misled so long. ...so for the last few weeks I've tried putting a simple question to various people and groups of people.
Question: 'Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing that is true?'
I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence.
I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body of evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said, 'I do know one thing – it ought not to be taught in high school'." Dr. Colin Patterson,
Senior Palaeontologist. British Museum of Natural History, London. Keynote address at the American Museum of Natural History, New York City, November 5

OPEN CHALLENGE: GIVE ME ONE FACT OF EVOLUTION THAT IS TRUE!!
COME ON TIM, JEFF, DODGE, TIME TO STOP DRINKING AND PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS.

EVOLUTION IS DEAD.
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 04.06.2005, 2:16am link
e_d

ok you want to disprove the theory, give us evidence of creationism. I dont mean bible quotes as thats all fiction, i want evidence.

Just because evolution hasnt been proven to be fact does not mean that creationism is true. Evolution is currently the only viable way that life could have evolved on earth. To my knowledge there is absolutely no evidence for creationism, other than you twisting fossil records to suit your puroposes.

you just stated you've been working on something for 20 years, how old does that make you? surely you have grown the mental capacity to argue with more than just petty insults, telling people to die because they dont believe in the same stuff you do.
For a christian you sure are aggressive, do your commandments not state to love your neighbour and not to commit murder? looks like you've gone against one and want to go against another. not very christian-like is it?

If you want people to take you and your views seriously then stop acting like such a twat.
Dodge , 04.06.2005, 4:29am link
eternal_damnation said: "Sir Fred Hoyle, British mathematician and astronomer, was quoted in Nature magazine, November 12, 1981, as saying “The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way (evolution) is comparable with the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a boeing 747 from the materials within."

Actually he was quoted talking about the origins of life, not evolution as so wonderfully "added" in brackets by your creationist/ID/lying sources.

Sir Fred was indeed a brilliant astrophysicist, but he wasn't a biologist. However, he did indeed believe in evolution, as from the following quote from his book on his hypothesis on how life on earth began;
"We are inescapably the result of a long heritage of learning, adaptation, mutation and evolution, the product of a history which predates our birth as a biological species and stretches back over many thousand millennia.... Going further back, we share a common ancestry with our fellow primates; and going still further back, we share a common ancestry with all other living creatures and plants down to the simplest microbe. The further back we go, the greater the difference from external appearances and behavior patterns which we observe today.... Darwin's theory, which is now accepted without dissent, is the cornerstone of modern biology. Our own links with the simplest forms of microbial life are well-nigh proven." --Fred Hoyle & Chandra Wickramasinghe, Lifecloud: The Origin of Life in the Universe, p.15-16"

Also, in his book Our Place in the Cosmos, on p.14 he says "The creationist is a sham religious person who, curiously, has no true sense of religion. In the language of religion, it is the facts we observe in the world around us that must be seen to constitute the words of God. Documents, whether the Bible, Qu'ran or those writings that held such force for Velikovsky, are only the words of men. To prefer the words of men to those of God is what one can mean by blasphemy. This, we think, is the instinctive point of view of most scientists who, curiously again, have a deeper understanding of the real nature of religion than have the many who delude themselves into a frenzied belief in the words, often the meaningless words, of men. Indeed, the lesser the meaning, the greater the frenzy, in something like inverse proportion."

And yet Eternal, like you say he's the greatest scientist of all time. I agree, when he describes creationists, at least.
AccursedAtheist , 04.06.2005, 5:39am link
ETERNAL_DAMNATION said "'I do know one thing – it ought not to be taught in high school'. Dr. Colin Patterson,
Senior Palaeontologist. British Museum of Natural History, London. Keynote address at the American Museum of Natural History, New York City, November 5"

I'm asking you Eternal_D if you would consider this Dr. Colin Patterson an expert in evolution to qualify the above quote? If so could anything that Dr. Patterson said be used as proof against/for evolution? Do you acknowledge he is an expert in his field?

I do need your answers to these questions, because if you're going to use experts to try to prove your points, I should be allowed to use those experts too, to prove your creationist claims are B#\\sh*t. Be careful though, your sources of the quotes you are using have been known to break that commandment thing you "True Christian ®" types are supposed to follow, "thou shalt not lie" (unless it's pimping for Jesus and they have no other way to get the message across).
AccursedAtheist , 04.06.2005, 6:37am link
ED is an admitted troll.. I doubt he even believes the bullshit he is posting..

Dont feed the trolls.
Gilgamesh [Email], 04.06.2005, 12:37pm link
dodge,stop drinking, go home . 40 kilkennys not enough.
Tell tim to go home.

EVOLUTION IS DEAD.

JESUS IS THE TRUTH
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 04.06.2005, 1:10pm link
Don't feed the trolls.

Mr. X is E_D, anyone notice that? lol

Don't feed the trolls.
Gilgamesh [Email], 04.06.2005, 1:50pm link
I'm not Mr.X gilgamesh!! Tim is Sierra. Your Jeff.
Mr. X is a bullshiting new ager.
Gilgamesh, stop taking drugs and drinking liquor.
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 04.06.2005, 3:34pm link
just got back from the pub, what did i miss?
MWAHAHAHAHAHA

Tim ban this loser
Dodge , 04.06.2005, 4:19pm link
GOOD BOY DODGE, YOU DRUNK. IS TIM ON HIS 40TH GUINESS? WELFARE NATION OF DRUNKS. UK SUCKS!!!
I'M A TROLL AND I LOVE IT. WITHOUT ME, THERE WOULD BE NO INTELLIGENCE ON THIS WEBSITE.

EVOLUTION IS DEAD.
eternal_damnation , 04.06.2005, 5:30pm link
Its really sad how religion warps a person's mind.

I think of it exactly like a computer virus.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 04.06.2005, 5:37pm link
I haven't posted much lately because there is too much hatred on this website. Tim, you attract this "hatred" because that's all you have to give away.
I will not respond to attacks against myself.
God is within and accessible to all.

May the lamp of love and light direct your path.
Mr. X , 04.06.2005, 7:30pm link
The only thing WITHIN me is ME. Confidence and self-belief is the foundation of the realization that religion is bullshit.

Yeah...I suppose I worship myself.

Me, myself and I - the holy trinity that has delivered a FANTASTIC life so far.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 04.06.2005, 9:43pm link
I agree with Mr. X. There IS too much hatred on this website. How nie it would be to have a good debate without people throwing around homophobic and unproven comments. Why does Dodge's habit of going to the pub (if he even does, I don't know) invalidate his point of view? Perhaps if there was more reason and less name calling we might have a bit of a better time. E_D in particular, cut the bollocks, listen to what people say, and reply with something more than "haha you're gay".
Latin_lover [Email], 04.06.2005, 10:54pm link
i like my high school because it doesn't teach us about burning people and sacrificing their flesh to a god because they failed to say "gesunteit." i'm happy with my high school for it's diversity. we have an ignited youth club (christian club) musklim, afghan, black student club, etc. and they get along jsut fine with eachother. E_D, if they were to teach your bible ins chool, that would be inflicting your delusions onto other people. it be the spanish inquisition in our schools. if they were to teach the bible, then they'd fairly have to teach the witches creed, the philosiphy of buddha, the list goes on. so isntead of putting in unfair conflicting veiws, they put in instead what the majority of the scientific community accepts as the truth, evolution. it has proof to back it up, evidence is still being found for it, not to mention, if you understand evolution, it opens up alot of jobs for geneticists, biologists, geologists, etc.

you cannot teach a religion in a public school. the toll it would take on society could not be solved by the bible, but rather with the removal of teaching the ten commandments from schools.

are you prepared to have wicca and budda and islam introduced into your schools E_D? i hope so.

and yeah, i'm actually happy Mr.x is back. mr.x doesn't bitch at us like E_D. mr.x is actually likeable. i miss our discussions on politics (blood sucking parasite! lol!) and i miss them not being filled with: oh yeah? well, you suck!"

too bad it seems as thoguh E_D's lamp is fueled by hatred. it's people like E_D that make me glad i'm not a bible thumper. it's also people like E_D that make me glad i'm not like them. it assures me that i'll be living a rather full and succesful life.

glad mr.x is back and latin_lover has a good point, CJ

and here's something for E_D in response to his last post: A casual stroll through the insane asylum will show you all religion has done for us.

killing people in the name of god is a good definition of insanity, isn't it?

and my favorite: we must question the story logic of an all knowing all powerful god who creates fualty humans then blames them for his mistakes.
CJ , 05.06.2005, 12:49am link
oh, and mr.x, it seems as though the culprit of hatred is not tim, but this E_D guy who seems rather determined to land himself a room in his hell. tim has put a grand total of three posts, where as E_D has put on at least ten times as much, and they're all filled with hatred.

what ever happened to "love thy nieghbor"? im begging for a response from E_D on this.
CJ , 05.06.2005, 12:55am link
To eternal:

I perfectly know what permutation is. Please, read again, what i was saying. So, once again for that case permutation is not the right answer.

REmember we FIX the correct characters and then continue with whatever left. PLEASE, THINK ABOUT it and don't just use the big words like permutation. You need to understand them, which you certainly don't.

Oh, and by the way, if human being could not be created like that, then for sure something much more complex (as God for instance) has even smaller chance to exist. I, of course, understand how evolution works. So the existence of the human does not surprise me at all.

But if you want to be church`s slave, please be. THat's your problem.
Roman, Boston , 05.06.2005, 1:57am link
Funny how Mr X shows up just after I comment about him.. lol

ED = Mr X..

Dont feed the trolls!

Roman, ED has no interest in learning anything. He is a troll and will keep spewing his nonsense no matter what you say.

Ignore it
Gilgamesh [Email], 05.06.2005, 5:52am link
I was reading an old post where Mr. X says 'Read the end of the book, we win' or something like that.. I remember somewhere ED posated something similar.. On Jeffs site maybe. If they are not the same person then they have the same Fundie troll brainwashing. Glory!
Gilgamesh [Email], 05.06.2005, 5:54am link
FUNNY HOW YOU SHOW UP GILGAMESH, OOPS, JEFF.
CHASING ME AROUND FROM JEFF'S SITE TO HERE.
I'M UNIQUE.
"I have said for years that speculations about the origin of life lead to no useful purpose as even the simplest living system is far too complex to be understood in terms of the extremely primitive chemistry scientists have used in their attempts to explain the unexplainable that happened billions of years ago." Ernst Chain,
Nobel Prize for Physiology & Medicine, 1945: Penicillin and Beyond," Weidenfeld & Nicolson: London, 1985, p.148
eternal_damantion , 05.06.2005, 4:16pm link
GIGAMESH, OR JEFF, ROMAN BOSTON'S ARGUMENT IS WRONG.
HE SHOULD LEARN HIS MATHEMATICS.
ETERNAL DAMANATION , 05.06.2005, 4:17pm link
chemistry has progressed a long way since 1945 e_d.
Dodge , 05.06.2005, 4:42pm link
christians are like those annoying phone calls, the ones where someone phones you and asks you to buy new double glazing and you don't want it. note to christians: if i wanted to believe in god, and live every day in fear of hell, then i would go to church. i do not need some wierdo trying to convert me!
uk girl , 05.06.2005, 4:56pm link
Christiantiy is like a stopped up toilet. By itself its full of crap, but suddenly it starts spewing all over and pretty soon you need a professional to clean up the mess.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 05.06.2005, 6:08pm link
To eternal:

That's you who should learn mathematics. Your arguments are pathetic as all your life!!!

I am loosing interest to argue with you, because you have no logical thinking.
Roman, Boston , 05.06.2005, 10:10pm link
Hey Roman Boston, you pathetic loser. In 2000 Trials a monkey can correctly generate 25000! sequence? Are you an idiot? Your losing interest because your an idiot. 25000! is over 10^100. A billion monkeys in a billion years can't do it.
Anything more Roman?

EVOLUTION IS DEAD
eternal_damnation , 05.06.2005, 10:37pm link
DODGE, SO HAS BEER, IT'S COME A LONG WAY SINCE 1945. GET A LIFE!
"Hundreds of scientists who once taught their university students that the bottom line on origins had been figured out and settled are today confessing that they were completely wrong. They've discovered that their previous conclusions, once held so fervently, were based on very fragile evidences and suppositions which have since been refuted by new discoveries.
This has necessitated a change in their basic philosophical position on origins. Others are admitting great weaknesses in evolution theory.
It is easy enough to make up stories, of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them to the test." Luther D Sutherland,
'Darwin's Enigma', Master Books 1988, p7,8, 89
eternal_damnation , 05.06.2005, 10:39pm link
"Today, a hundred and twenty-eight years after it was first promulgated, the Darwinian theory of evolution stands under attack as never before. ...
The fact is that in recent times there has been increasing dissent on the issue within academic and professional ranks, and that a growing number of respectable scientists are defecting from the evolutionist camp.
It is interesting, moreover, that for the most part these 'experts' have abandoned Darwinism, not on the basis of religious faith or biblical persuasions, but on strictly scientific grounds, and in some instances regretfully, as one could say.
We are told dogmatically that Evolution is an established fact; but we are never told who has established it, and by what means. We are told, often enough, that the doctrine is founded upon evidence, and that indeed this evidence 'is henceforward above all verification, as well as being immune from any subsequent contradiction by experience'; but we are left entirely in the dark on the crucial question wherein, precisely, this evidence consists." Wolfgang Smith,
Mathematician and Physicist. Prof. of Mathematics, Oregon State University. Former math instructor at MIT. Teilhardism and the New Religion: A Thorough Analysis of the Teachings of de Chardin. Tan Books & Publishers, pp. 1-2

EVOLUTION IS DEAD!!!
eternal_damnation , 05.06.2005, 10:40pm link
This site is awesome...You sound like my dad (which is a good thing by the way), before he was brainwashed into mormanism...

Religion is the root of all evil...?
Joe Bernard [Email], 06.06.2005, 4:20am link
er, if evolution is dead, why is it still taught in schools instead of your pathetic scare tactics? it's getting more proof all the time. please lsit your evidence for creationsim, adn then we'll start arguing some more.

and UK girl, same with me.

and mormans are pretty scary. one of my friends dad has a tactic for mormans. when he sees mormans on the street around his neighborhood, he goes home, strips to his underwear, grabs a beer and a cigar (i don't beleive he smokes) and turns on the football channel up REALLY loud, and when the mormans come and they see his beer, underwear, cigar,a dn hear his game on, they say "We can help you!" he promptly says "no you can't." he did this twice and that got him off their conversion hitlist.

and for our good (chokes) friend E_d: arguing on the internet against the majority is like running in the special olympics. even if you win, you're still retarded.

and does anyone here think that they are truly deserving of an eternity of paradise? an eternity of torment? i don't think a single one of us here deserves one or the other.
CJ , 07.06.2005, 12:56am link
lol, we have over 200 posts here. its like taht other post with the virgin mary incidents.

and who are you calling drunks e_d? isn't drinking your ass off part of your religion? i don't see what you're bitching about here.

wondering when we'll get another thread, CJ
CJ , 07.06.2005, 1:01am link
HEY CJ, YOU SHOULD BE MINISTERING TO YOUR GAY FRIENDS, NOT ENABLING THEM. GOSPEL PREACHING TOO MUCH FOR YOU? CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH LIKE TIM, SIERRA, JEFF, YAHOO, ROMAN BOSTON AND THAT NEW AGE CRACKHEAD MR. X? LOTS OF EVIDENCE FOR CREATIONISM. LOOK AT HOW YOUR BODY WORKS. WORKS PERFECTLY DOESN'T IT? YOUR EYES, YOUR HEART, YOUR BODILY FUNCTIONS? THESE EVOLVED AND CAME ABOUT BY RANDOM CHANCES. ALL THOSE QUOTES BY PHD'S WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU? TIM IS NOT AN ACADEMIC SCHOLAR, SO I'LL TRUST FRED HOYLE ANY DAY OVER HIM.
EVOLUTION NEVER HAPPENED. DEAL WITH IT ! GAY IS NOT OK. GO READ THE TRUTH ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY. FIND A CHURCH AND LEARN THE TRUTH.

"Big bang cosmology is probably as widely believed as has been any theory of the universe in the history of Western civilization.
It rests, however, on many untested, and in some cases untestable, assumptions. Indeed, big bang cosmology has become a bandwagon of thought that reflects faith as much as objective truth." G. Burbidge,
1992. Why only one big bang? Scientific American, 266(2):96
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 07.06.2005, 1:30am link
THE BIBLE IS ROCK SOLID AND THE ULTIMATE TRUTH.
IT IS THE ONLY VALID BOOK ON THIS PLANET.
"To explain biological design, we need more than Darwinism.
But natural selection does not initiate evolutionary changes in design. Like a jury, natural selection acts only on the possibilities brought before it." K. V. Kardong,
"Vertebrates: Comparative Anatomy, Function, Evolution," [1995], McGraw Hill: Boston MA, Third Edition, 2002, pp.13-14

"Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into an earth-bound, feathered dinosaur. But it's not. It is a bird, a perching bird. And no amount of ‘paleobabble’ is going to change that." Dr. J. Alan Feduccia,
Prof. Avian Evolution and world authority on birds at the University of North Carolina. Archaeopteryx: Early Bird Catches a Can of Worms by V. Morell, Science 259(5096):764–65, 5 February 1993.

OK, JEFF, TIM , ROMAN BOSTON, YAHOO, BEN , DODGE AND CO. WHERE ARE THE MISSING FOSSILS? WHY CAN'T THEY BE ACCOUNTED FOR?
HOW COME THEY CAN'T BE FOUND IN ROCK LAYERS?
THAT'S BECAUSE EACH AFTER IT'S OWN KIND.

DON'T YOU JUST LOVE THE BIBLE?
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 07.06.2005, 1:34am link
"The older textbooks on evolution make much of the idea of homology, pointing out the obvious resemblances between the skeletons of the limbs of different animals. Thus the 'pentadactyl' [five bone] limb pattern is found in the arm of a man, the wing of a bird, and flipper of a whale, and this is held to indicate their common origin.
Now if these various structures were transmitted by the same gene couples, varied from time to time by mutations and acted upon by environmental selection, the theory would make good sense.
Unfortunately this is not the case. Homologous organs are now known to be produced by totally different gene complexes in the different species. The concept of homology in terms of similar genes handed on from a common ancestor has broken down." William Fix,
The Bone Peddlers: Selling Evolution, Macmillan Publishing Co., New York, 1984, p. 189.

SORRY GENTELMEN,
IT JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN. YOU'VE LOST !! I REST MY CASE. VICTORY IS MINE.

CONCLUSION: THERE IS NO COMMON ANCESTOR.

GUYS, I'M NOT A BAD WINNER, YOU CAN COME BACK TO THE WINNING SIDE.I'M A GREAT COACH AND WILL TAKE YOU BACK.

WE WIN!!
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 07.06.2005, 1:40am link
TIM, JEFF, DODGE, YAHOO, BEN, MR.X, CJ, DO YOU KNOW MORE ABOUT EVOLUTION THAT Dr. J. Alan Feduccia?
ARE YOU A SCHOLAR LIKE HIM? IF YOU READING THIS ESPECIALLY YOU KNOW FROM THE OTHER WEBSITE, THEN TELL ME WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE YOU AND TALK - ORGINS WEBSITE, WHICH IS LOAD OF CRAP. GIVE ME ONE INDISPUTABLE FACT OF EVOLUTION? THE FACT IS YOU CAN'T DO SO AND NEVER WILL. IT'S A MYTH, PSEUDOSCIENCE AND FICTION.
IT IS THE BIGGEST JOKE OF THIS CENTURY.

EVOLUTION IS DEAD.
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 07.06.2005, 1:45am link
When you say "THE BIBLE IS ROCK SOLID AND THE ULTIMATE TRUTH.
IT IS THE ONLY VALID BOOK ON THIS PLANET." what you are really saying is that you are a tiny minded idiot.

Obviously the bible is dead wrong. Heck, even if there were a god even he would laugh at the inconsistencies in the bible.

The "truth" bullshit of the bible is best displayed this way...

Suppose a christian minister (or priest or whatever) sat down face to face with an Islamic cleric (or whatever). The both bring their "truth books" the bible and the koran.

Each is going to inist that his book is the truth, the word of god. Much of the evidence for this will be beacuse the book SAYS it is.

Who's right?

Both will say they are. Both will think the other is wrong. Neither will EVER concede the tinyest possibility they could be wrong.

The funny part....

BOTH ARE WRONG.

E-D will insist that he has the TRUTH and will point to a particular bible verse to support his position.

That would be like me opening may favorite cookbook, proclaiming that there is only one way to cook potatoes and referring you to the page in the book that says so. Not only that, I would steadfastly insist that this was the ONLY cookbook - all other cookbooks were lies that would lead to food poisoning.

SILLY SILLY BULLSHIT.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 07.06.2005, 2:39am link
e_d you can give us as many quotes as possibe, but without facts you cant back anything up. Just because many people (no matter who they are or how intelligent they may be) believe something to be true, does not make it true. There are many examples of this now and throughout history.

you have not given us any evidence for the theory of creationism. The bible is fiction, not fact so that is immediately discredited, and as for every organ being right in our body, that can be accredited to evoltion too.

Bible the only valid book?? nice joke but have you read any of it or the hundreds of contradictions it contains. Surely these contradictions would make it invalid?
With this statement are you trying to tell us all books are lies?

As for missing fossils etc - as i have explained before, only the tiniest fraction of living things ever become fossils, they are extremely rare, but they will be discovered.
If there is no transitional fossil as you say, then how does the new species come about, does god kill everything on the planet then make a new set of creatures?

Gospel preaching too much to handle? - yes it is, theres only so much bullshit i can take without getting up and kicking someone in the face, and if i get preached to thats whats going to happen.

"TIM IS NOT AN ACADEMIC SCHOLAR, SO I'LL TRUST FRED HOYLE ANY DAY OVER HIM" - with this are you saying that you have no mind of your own, and you will believe anything that your told aslong as its from someone who went to university? Just about sums you and religion up. Dont ask why, just accept without thinking.

e_d your really starting to bore me know, please stop repeating the same insults over and over at us, your pathetic.
Dodge , 07.06.2005, 4:10am link
LOOK - EVOLUTION AT WORK.......

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A group of dolphins living off the coast of Australia apparently teach their offspring to protect their snouts with sponges while foraging for food in the sea floor.

Researchers say it appears to be a cultural behavior passed on from mother to daughter, a first for animals of this type, although such learning has been seen in other species.

The dolphins, living in Shark Bay, Western Australia, use conically shaped whole sponges that they tear off the bottom, said Michael Kruetzen, lead author of a report on the dolphins in Tuesday's issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Science.

"Cultural evolution, including tool use, is not only found in humans and our closest relatives, the primates, but also in animals that are evolutionally quite distant from us. This convergent evolution is what is so fascinating," said Kruetzen.

Researchers suspect the sponges help the foraging dolphins avoid getting stung by stonefish and other critters that hide in the sandy sea bottom, just as a gardener might wear gloves to protect the hands.

Kruetzen and colleagues analyzed 13 "spongers" and 172 "non-spongers" and concluded that the practice seems to be passed along family lines, primarily from mothers to daughters.

"Teaching requires close observation by the pupil," Kruetzen said. "Offspring spend up to four years before they are weaned, so they would have ample time to observe their mum doing it -- if she is a sponger."

"This study provides convincing evidence that the behavior is transmitted via social learning," commented Laela Sayigh of the University of North Carolina Center for Marine Science.

"Such social learning appears to be widespread among the Shark Bay dolphins," said Sayigh, who was not part of Kruetzen's team.


So much for the bible.

Religion is bullshit.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 07.06.2005, 6:03am link
E-D - why do you think you can make a point by quoting people who you obviously know little about? Hoyle for example: a brilliant mathematician, but ridiculed by most scientists for many of his beliefs. And the fact that he didn't believe in evolution doesn't make him a creationist - he actually believed live started elsewhere in the universe and took a ride on a comet here.

"THE BIBLE IS ROCK SOLID AND THE ULTIMATE TRUTH. IT IS THE ONLY VALID BOOK ON THIS PLANET." - if you believe that you have even less intelligence than I initial thought. Have you actually READ this book? Here's a good place to do so:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

As for being "proud" of being a troll - I guess you don't entirely know what one is. So here's a definition:
"A sad, pathetic person with no friends who has nothing better to do than hang around websites with possible controversial content, talking complete bullshit that he himself probably doesn't actually believe, just to make himself seem important".

As you clearly fit this description I'm not going to bother to respond to you again and I hope other people don't either.
Tim [Home], 07.06.2005, 2:47pm link
Sierra - back to the "gay rights" issue - I've written about why homophobia cannot be justified here - http://www.timsellers.net/winston/2004/07/almost-wish-i-was-gay.php - but want to make an additional point.

You say that gays have the same rights - i.e. they can marry someone of the opposite sex just as the rest of us can. But asking for the right to marry someone of the same sex isn't a "special" right - hetrosexuals would be able to marry people of the same sex too. They just wouldn't want to, any more than a homosexual would want to marry someone of the opposite sex.

"Society puts a few limits on marriage" - should laws and rules always remain the same? Can they not change and progress? Should society be left to stagnate?
Tim [Home], 07.06.2005, 3:06pm link
Some of the basic underpinnings of our society should remain as constant as we can make them. The fact that divorce is commonplace now is no reason to abolish marriage for instance.

Regardless of the rantings of its proponents, homosexuality is an unnatural and biologically useless state. It is either a "choice of lifestyle" or a manifestation of a physical or physological abnormality.

In either case, the basic institutions of our society should not be torn down to accomodate it.

The members of NAMBLA advocate for their "rights" too using all the rhetoric of the gay movememnt. Many in Utah still practice their form of "religous rights" in the form of plural marriage. Other people mutilate themselves under the idea of "gender change" opeations.

A homosexual marriage is as contrary to the goals of society as asserting the idea that someone can undergo "gender reassignment" surgery. People actually promote the idea that "I was a woman born in a man's body".

How ridiculous!

In order to have a productive society there must be rules and boundries for behavior. No matter where those are set some people will find themselves outside of them. This fact alone is no evidence that the rules should be changed.

Speed limits should not be abolished just because many drive too fast any more than children should be emancipated simply because they "want to".

Gays like to announce "you won't force your morality on us" while they seek to do that to the rest of society. If it is a case of concern over passing property from one partner to another or setting up agreements for care and what-not this can be accomodated.

Beyond that, the idea of two men "marrying" one another is silly and disgusting. Regardless of what they call it, that purported "union" is suspect and will, I doubt, ever provide the legitimacy these people hope for.

Lastly, when you say "But asking for the right to marry someone of the same sex isn't a "special" right - hetrosexuals would be able to marry people of the same sex too. They just wouldn't want to, any more than a homosexual would want to marry someone of the opposite sex" what you are really talking about it choice isn't it? These people choose a "lifestyle" and that choice comes with consequences.

In the end there is no "gay marriage". Call it what you want and try and force it upon society, but in the end it does not exist any more than god.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 07.06.2005, 3:52pm link
"Beyond that, the idea of two men "marrying" one another is silly and disgusting."

And there - I guarantee - you have Sierra's entire problem with gay marriage, despite all his/her blustering about rights and society. Thinks it's disgusting. Wants law to reflect own revulsion. Sierra, I find homophobes disgusting, but I wouldn't want them outlawed.

Just a few more points to make about the various arguments you've used to back up your visceral disgust with consenting adults wishing to marry.

You try to use comparisons with paedophilia, bestiality and - bizarrely - speed limits to make a case for not allowing gay marriage. But the thing is I can easily find good moral issues for outlawing the first two and enforcing the last. Beyond some flimsy comparison, have you got any good reason - beside your churning gut - why the same sex shouldn't be able to marry each other? It's just the same sort of "smear by association" that the bigots like Santorum use.

Your statement that homosexuality is an unnatural and biologically useless state suggests that you've never read any of the scientific theories about its origins, or heard of the instances of homosexuality in animals (are they making a choice?). This is possibly because you begin to retch as soon as you get within 5 yards of something that might - oh the horror! - legitimise this unnatural state in your eyes.

Finally, you said a few times about straights and gays having the same rights - the right to marry someone of the opposite sex. This is just silly fucking word games from someone tapping away at a keyboard trying to be clever. If a right is granted to the population that is heavily skewed in favour of one section of society, I think any reasonable person would agree that the other section is perfectly entitled to wonder where the hell their version is - and don't start on with the paedophilia again, I'm talking about things that hurt no one else.

*deep breath*

In conclusion, Sierra, you're proof that not all atheists come by their stance via logic and reason - some are just intolerant of pretty much everything.

And Tim, apologies for such a long, non-religion related post. I've said my piece and will wait until someone not named eternal_damnation has got something new/worth arguing with to say about religion.
Ben [Email][Home], 07.06.2005, 9:08pm link
Look....

I believe in a world of absolutes. Some things are just absolutely wrong. I am not going to spend a lot of time trying to understand female genital mutilation in some countries before I announce that it should be stopped.

The gay marriage thing is like that. Tolerating the behavior of some small minority in society is far different from endorsing it.

Gays like to say 10% of the population is gay. I say thats WAY high, but lets assume its spot on. THAT MEANS 90% OF THE POPULATION IS NOT GAY.

Everything you need to know about gay can be learned from looking at a lamp and an electrical socket. Plug in the lamp and you get light. As neat and socially openminded an idea as it is, two lamps by themselves are useless as are two sockets.

We achieve nothing in society by pretending. Married gays is not a productive base unit for a healthy society and married gays adopting children is worse. Good god...what is this world coming to.

There have to be limits in society. I'm sorry, but thats another absolute.

Gays above all else seek to legitimize their relationships. They want to force society at large to accept them.

Like it or not, gays will always feel marginalized. They already have the freedom to love who they wish. The rest of us have the freedom to reject their "lifestyle" as inappropriate if we wish.

Don't believe me? Put it to a vote in the general population.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 07.06.2005, 9:37pm link
Again with the smear by association, and also a guest appearance from the argument ad numerum. Sierra, try to get through one post without using a logical fallacy. Just one.

And that really is my last word on the subject, honest! Sierra, again I invite you to email me if you've any interest in discussing this further, please remember that this website is about religion. I won't be answering again here.
Ben [Email][Home], 07.06.2005, 10:04pm link
Fallacy?

Lets be real. Any man that looks at another man's hairy ass and say to himself "I want some of that" has a problem. Society shouldn't be forced to legitimize that nonsense.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 07.06.2005, 10:37pm link
Sierra, I'm not sure you've entirely grasped Ben's point - you just sound like a bigot.

As for your "example" of female genital mutilation - I doubt many women would consent to such an abuse. If two men decide to have sex, it's because they want to do so - there is no abuse and no one else is harmed. If they then want society to recognise their relationship and have the rights that people in hetrosexual relationships have, well, why the hell not?

I want personal freedom - but I also want others to have personal freedom too. To do what they want. Which is not always going to be what I might want to do. We're all individuals, you know?
Tim [Home], 07.06.2005, 10:58pm link
And you don't find "another man's hairy ass" attractive because you're not gay.
Gay men may well find another man's hairy arse attractive. That's because they are gay.
Tim [Home], 07.06.2005, 11:14pm link
218 comments ... evolution ... homosexuality ... all because I wrote about a documentary I saw on Iron Maiden! A psychologist would have great fun at this site.

Great album though.
Tim [Home], 07.06.2005, 11:11pm link
Right on sierra.
How the hell can I guy want some other guy's ass? These people are sickos.
Hey Tim, if you could sing like Bruce Dickinson, you might be somewhere right now.
I'm proud to be a troll.
eternal_damnation , 07.06.2005, 11:59pm link
"A random change in the highly integrated system of chemical processes which constitute life is certain to impair - just as a random interchange of connections in a television set is not likely to improve the picture." James F. Crow,
Radiation & mutation specialist. "Genetic Effects of Radiation" Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, Vol. 14, p. 19-20

SIERRA, YOU BELIEVE IN A ABSOLUTES, WHICH MEANS YOU WILL ACCEPT GOD. SIERRA, YOUR ONE OF US, COME HOME. ON THE GAY ISSUE, YOUR KICKING THE UK DRUNKS BUTTS TO MARS.
TIM, AREN'T YOU HOME A LITTLE EARLY. WHAT HAPPENED, DID THE PUB RUN OUT OF "OLD SPECKLED HEN"?
HOMOSEXUALITY IS SICK AND ABNORMAL.
SIERRA, THEY ARE LESS THAN 1% OF THE POPULATION. A RECENT GOVT STUDY IN CANADA PROVED IT.
eternal_damnation , 08.06.2005, 12:09am link
Tim,

I am not a bigot. I just call it like it is.

One of the beautiful things about atheism is that it allows you to appreciate the simplicity of the universe without all the BULLSHIT humans pile on to try to justify themselves and their behavior.

The absolute pinnacle of the gay argument are those proudly announcing that they are “transgendered”. What silly nonsense. “Oh, I’m a woman trapped in a man’s body.” Sure. Whatever. And then they run off and try to have “gender reassignment” surgery. How absurd.

You were born male (or female) and you will be so every day of your life regardless of how you mutilate yourself. Its funny that animals do not seem to have a problem with this.

Now, in the light of simplicity of nature, which is more likely – that you are really a female but every cell in your body somehow got the wrong chromosome and “poof” you ended up in a mans body which you hope to correct with surgery? Or, option B, you have a screw loose and for whatever reason or psychological problem are unable to accept what you are?

I vote B. Anything else is the same hypocritical “gee I wish it were true” made up human rationalization that got us the bible.

And Tim, “If two men decide to have sex, it's because they want to do so - there is no abuse and no one else is harmed”……….hey, whatever you know, but just because two people consent to something does not in any way ameliorate the fact it is unnatural. Pretend all you like.

“If they then want society to recognise their relationship and have the rights that people in hetrosexual relationships have, well, why the hell not?” Why not? WHY must I recognize their relationship? Why is it so important that they be recognized? What about MY values and social mores? When do THEY get recognized?

“I want personal freedom” …. So do I, but I also accept limits on my freedom as part of living in a society.

“…but I also want others to have personal freedom too.” …. So do I, but life is not a free-for-all. They must accept limits as well. Why must I accept their rights and freedoms and they not have to accept mine. Why do they get to say what rights we afford people in society? We deny lots of people rights all the time and often take invested rights away. It’s a function of social order. Since they represent a minority why are their concerns to prevail to the exclusion of the majority. What about MY right to live in a society where only men and women marry?

“To do what they want. Which is not always going to be what I might want to do.”….true, but then they have to accept some of this from me. Perhaps I don’t want to change the character of the institution of marriage. Why don’t I have a say?

“We're all individuals, you know?”………true, but we all live together in a society. Tha society requires rules.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 08.06.2005, 1:15am link
Sierra

"homosexuality is an unnatural and biologically useless state" It is either a "choice of lifestyle" or a manifestation of a physical or physological abnormality"

In that case so is a man and woman living together or married who use birht control. WHy are they together if they don't want kids? Why should de-factos or childless couples have the same rights as "normal" couples?

You are so right! I think we should ban contraception, ban de factos, ban marriages that can't/don't produce children, ban IVF becasue obviously childless couples are biologically unnatural. I'm sure you have lots of other grea tideas for our society.

Wow, you should try out for Pope!
Yahoo , 08.06.2005, 5:49am link
Oh get real.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 08.06.2005, 6:41am link
I take back my suggestion that E_D is Mr, X.. Apologies to X.

After reading some of his posts, Mr. X no longer seems to be like E_D, he seems much more intelligent
Gilgamesh , 08.06.2005, 1:00pm link
Wading in briefly on the Homosexuality issue.

Meh.. ok yes homosexuality may be unnatural, it may be the result of brains gone haywire.

Still no reason to deny them a happy and peaceful life. If they wanna get married let em. I don't care, it doesn't affect me.
Gilgamesh , 08.06.2005, 1:03pm link
Sierra the world isnt all you, you, you. There are other people and you should respect their wishes. Im not gay but i think its a good idea to let them mary. Just because you think its unnatural doesnt mean they shouldnt. As Yahoo said there are many things unnatural that we do as society. Most medicines were unnatural - my body doesnt produce penecillin (first drug that came to mind) so that must be unnatural and we shouldnt use drugs. Also what about surgery? if we get a disease isnt it caused naturally so with your logic we shouldnt operate on people and let them die? Machines and electricity dont occur in nature, therefor unatural - should we give up everything and start living like the omish??

and whos to say being gay is unatural? there are theories arond that suggest it is a genetic condition and scientists are trying to isolate a gay gene. You cant get more natural than that can you?
Dodge , 08.06.2005, 1:48pm link
Sierra, you'd be better off leaving aside the rhetorical bullshit and just admitting that you find homosexuality disgusting and that this is your reason for opposing gay marriage. Most people have some sort of predjudice after all. You made some valid points initially regarding religion but have destroyed your credibility recently by keeping on about this.
Tim [Home], 08.06.2005, 2:11pm link
Dodge,

"Sierra the world isnt all you, you, you. There are other people and you should respect their wishes."....If that is true, then I have wishes that need to be respected. Why are my view subordinate?

Tim - when you say "you'd be better off leaving aside the rhetorical bullshit and just admitting that you find homosexuality disgusting and that this is your reason for opposing gay marriage" you miss my point. I don't care if it is disgusting. All kinds of people do disgusting things. THe people who live down the street from me are slobs and have shit strewn all over their yard. It looks like a dump.

The issue for me is that I do not believe every social institution should be torn down (or substantially modified) because they do not suit a small minority of the members of society.

I believe that gay marriage harms the idea of marriage in the same way that lowering the hoops to (say) eight feet to accomodate short people would fundamentally harm the game of basketball.

Part of the idea of a democracy is majority rule. There is no majority rule if the minority can force their desires on society irrespective of the will of the majority.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 08.06.2005, 4:19pm link
gay marriage does not harm the idea of marriage, unless you go by the christian definition which is under god, who apparently hates gays, although there are a large number of gay/paedophilic vicars out there.

Why shouldnt we introduce gay marrage, even if it is catering for the minority as you say, it does not effect the majority in any way. What about racism laws etc they are inplace as the minority wants them, should we abolish these?

Marriage is the lifelong union of two persons, please give me a valid reason to why gays cannot do this other than its disgusting or you dont like it.
Dodge , 08.06.2005, 5:56pm link
I am opposed to redefining the underpinings of society to accomodate the special needs of a minority.

I oppose it when in politics parties try to change the majority needed to pass certain legislation from 2/3 to a simple majority.

I oppose it when people suggest that government forms should be printed in every language as opposed to the language of the VAST majority.

I oppose gay marriage for the same reason I oppose plural marriage.

I believe that for a society to exist as a nation there must be basic social constructs to which all members adhere. These constructs need to be ridgid and unchanging if the society is to have a long-term static identity. The alternative is reflected in 3rd world nations that change name, identity and government every 30 minutes.

As soon as those static pillars form, some people will chaffe against them.

The bill of rights in the US constitution represent examples of some of these pillars. The more people start screwing with them the worse off society will become.


You definition that "Marriage is the lifelong union of two persons" is only good until the pluralists come along and tell you that a marriage is the lifelong union of people who love each other.

Marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Period. There is no such thing as gay marriage any more than you can have gender reassignment surgery.

If gays want legal rights and what not, we can create civil unions.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 08.06.2005, 7:49pm link
I guess I'm just a whiney liberal who wants to break down barriers, progress, grow ...

Civil unions - fine. Perhaps gay AND straight people should have civil unions and save marriage for the religious.

Anyway, this is getting nowhere - can we move on now please?
Tim [Home], 08.06.2005, 8:19pm link
Fundies are 666. St Paul corrupted the words of the historic human being Yeshua. Stickc your finger in Jesus's hole and believe...:)
David Holmes [Email][Home], 08.06.2005, 8:52pm link
Tim, fine.

I just get sick of being called a bigot or homophobe for opposing some fundamental changes in society.

I think the British monarchy is a bit silly, but I would urge restraint before fundamentally re-engineering British society. That does not make me a abolotionist-phobe.

Constantly changing the rules of society gave us religion and religion gave us the abuses we have throughout history.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 08.06.2005, 10:20pm link
You don't get called a bigot or a homophobe for opposing fundamental changes in society. You get called that for statements like "married gays adopting children is worse. Good god...what is this world coming to." and "the idea of two men 'marrying' one another is silly and disgusting" and "Any man that looks at another man's hairy ass and say to himself 'I want some of that' has a problem." and comparing homosexuality to bestiality and paedophilia.

And damn you for constantly topping yourself in the dumb statement stakes and making me break my silence!
Ben [Email][Home], 08.06.2005, 10:31pm link
Ben you make me laugh!!! : )

I compare homosexuals to pedophiles and beastiality beacuse I see them as threee cases where people seek to express their sexuality based on their own terms.

Pedophiles have NAMBLA and I don't care what you say, they openly advocate for loving, consenting relationships between adult males and young boys.

Originally the gays crowd was closely associated with the pedophile movement and NAMBLA. As the gay movement gained acceptance and came more into the mainstream the disassociated themselves with NAMBLA.

The point is, it is a spectrum and to me an issue of where do you erect the fence of civility. With my fence the gays and the pedophiles are on the outside. Marriage is a man and a woman.

What people resent and I oppose is the gay desire to "re-set" the fence so they are inside and the other deviates are outside. In short order the plural marriage advocates, pedophiles, and who knows who else will also try to move the fence.

Whether or not you wish to accept it, homosexuality is a sexual deviation. It is not normal, natural or biologicly appropriate. If people wish to practice these behaviors fine, but they must accept some limits that their choices have on their lives.

By example, I may have to tolerate the practice of religion, but I should not have to adjust the laws of my society because a loud MINORITY or a particular faith decide that they need to practice consentual human sacrifice in order to express themselves.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 08.06.2005, 11:42pm link
Yeah Tim, the bruce dickinson wannabe.
Lets talk about great UK beers you enjoy and why alcoholism is a problem in the UK.

STRYPER rules!!!

SOLDIERS UNDER GODS COMMAND.
WE WIN WITHOUT SIN!!


EVOLUTION IS DEAD.
eternal_damnation , 08.06.2005, 11:58pm link
Lets talk about the NBA championship.
SAN ANTONIO SPURS
2005 NBA
CHAMPS
eternal_damnation , 09.06.2005, 12:15am link
"Now, after over 120 years of the most extensive and painstaking geological exploration of every continent and ocean bottom, the picture is infinitely more vivid and complete than it was in 1859.

Formations have been discovered containing hundreds of billions of fossils and our museums are filled with over 100-million fossils of 250,000 different species.

The availability of this profusion of hard scientific data should permit objective investigators to determine if Darwin was on the right track. What is the picture which the fossils have given us? ... The gaps between major groups of organisms have been growing even wider and more undeniable. They can no longer be ignored or rationalized away with appeals to imperfection of the fossil record."

CONCLUSION: EVOLUTION DIDN'T HAPPEN. NO INTERMEDIATE SPECIES = NO EVOLUTION. VERY SIMPLE ISN'T IT.


"My main criticism of Darwinism is that it fails in its initial objective, which is to explain the origin of species. Now, let me explain exactly what I mean by that.

I mean it fails to explain the emergence of organisms, the specific forms during evolution like algae and ferns and flowering plants, corals, starfish, crabs, fish, birds.

Darwin turned biology into a historical science, and in Darwinism, species are simply accidents of history, they don't have any inherent nature. They are just 'the way things happened to work out' and there aren't any particular constraints that mean it couldn't have all worked out very differently." Brian Goodwin,
Professor of Biology, Open University, UK, "An interview with Professor Brian Goodwin by Dr David King," GenEthics News, Issue 11. March/April 1996, pp.6-8.

"Much evidence can be advanced in favour of the theory of evolution – from biology, biogeography and paleontology, but I still think that to the unprejudiced, the fossil record of plants is in favour of special creation.

Can you imagine how an orchid, a duckweed, and a palm have come from the same ancestry, and have we any evidence for this assumption? The evolutionist must be prepared with an answer, but I think that most would break down before an inquisition

"Considering the way the prebiotic soup is referred to in so many discussions of the origin of life as an already established reality, it comes as something of a shock to realize that there is absolutely no positive evidence for its existence." Michael Denton,
Molecular Biologist. Evolution: A Theory in Crisis. Adler and Adler.

"I would rather believe in fairy tales than in such wild speculation. I have said for years that speculations about the origin of life lead to no useful purpose as even the simplest living system is far too complex to be understood in terms of the extremely primitive chemistry scientists have used in their attempts to explain the unexplainable.
God cannot be explained away by such naive thoughts."


EVOLUTION: THE GREATEST JOKE OF THE 20TH CENTURY.

ENOUGH OR DO YOU NEED MORE.
eternal_damnation , 09.06.2005, 1:27am link
e_d

there are many theories on how life began on this planet, with the one i seem most probable is that simple amino acids formed in gas clouds which were then brought to earth on the back of a comet.

Darwins origin of species was written over a hundred years ago, he didnt have all the answers then, and we still dont now, and we probably wont ever know them all. There is only so much evidence we can gather without travelling back in time to see for ourselves, but there is still more evidence for evolution than creationism. The absence of a few intermediatry fossils does not disprove evolution, it merely does not prove it, and it is still a valid theory.

You fail to give us any evidence for creationism. You believe in your fairytales if you must, but dont spread the shit about without backing it up with substantial evidence, and not quotes from intellectuals expressing their OPINIONS.



Sierra
why does a marriage have to be just between a man and a woman?? its because the bible sais so. society has been based around the bible, and now most people see it as a fraud why should we keep to its bullshit rules. You only see it as wrong as you have been brought up to believe it is wrong. Homosexuality is normal, natural and whos to say what is or isnt biologically appropriate. As i have said before scientists now believe that being gay isnt psycological as you say, but genetic, which would make it natural. as for biologically appropriate - what about contraceptives according to you they would be inappropriate so why not abolish them like the catholics??
as for your fence, young boys are not able to make the relevant sexual decisions when it comes to man-boy relationships and under the law they are not able to concent to it, but two adults of the same sex can concent to doing whatever they want, and if they both want it it should be deemed acceptable. There should be no limits on there lifestyle as you say, they should recieve the same rights as any hetrosexual relationship, its just backward thinking people like you that disagree.

what do you have to fear from gay people? you need to accept them into society and not cast them aside like scum, they are exactly the same as you and me in every way except in thier sexual preference, does this make them so different that they dont deserve the same rights as you and me ??
Dodge , 09.06.2005, 2:19am link
Dodge, did you just get home from the pub. How many "Stella Artois" did you down tonight. You had a few too many. Don't drink and post on the website :)
Those intellectuals have a higher IQ than Tim and your's multiplied together. There are holes in the theory of evolution. Creationism is more logical.
Just like Sierra, I'm sick and tired of being labelled a homophobe by left wing do-gooders like you and Tim. I don't have to accept their disgusting lifestyle and neither should anyone else.
Dodge, sleep off the booze buddy. Make sure Tim gets home ok. HOpe he wasn't trying to impersonate Bruce Dickinson in the pub. Tim, his new album is pretty cool.
Too bad you can't sing like him.

EVOLUTION IS DEAD. DEAL WITH IT.
eternal_damnation , 09.06.2005, 2:27am link
Ok Dodge, lets go through it line by line:

1. "Sierra
why does a marriage have to be just between a man and a woman??"

I dosen't HAVE to, but anything-goes marriage creates a society unlike that in which most people wish to live.

2. "Homosexuality is normal, natural and whos to say what is or isnt biologically appropriate."

You need to carefully define these terms. It may be natural (the part of some natural process) but it is certainly not normal. As far as biologically appropriate, last time I checked the mouth and anus were not sex organs. I have seen no gay rectal pregnancys and no anal deliveries. Therefore its pretty obvious what is biologically appropriate.

3. "As i have said before scientists now believe that being gay isnt psycological as you say, but genetic, which would make it natural."

Yes, but certainly not normal. Savants and downs syndrome are natural too, but certainly not normal.

4. "As for biologically appropriate - what about contraceptives according to you they would be inappropriate so why not abolish them like the catholics??"

Contraceptives are products (not behaviors)people use on their bodies just like tobacco, alcohol, medicine etc to get a desired effect. If you will remember, people DID try to abolish alcohol.

5. "As for your fence, young boys are not able to make the relevant sexual decisions when it comes to man-boy relationships and under the law they are not able to concent to it"

Thats not what THEY say. How does that differ from the gays?


6. "But two adults of the same sex can concent to doing whatever they want, and if they both want it it should be deemed acceptable."

Really? Then why all the fuss over assisted suicide?


7. "There should be no limits on there lifestyle as you say, they should recieve the same rights as any hetrosexual relationship, its just backward thinking people like you that disagree."

That is your opinion.

8. "What do you have to fear from gay people?"

Who says I am afriad of anything? Perhaps that is just not a direction I think society should move in. I'm against religion too, but not afraid of it. Are you about to call me a religophobe?


9 "You need to accept them into society and not cast them aside like scum, they are exactly the same as you and me in every way except in thier sexual preference"

I do accept them. I simply insist that they accept limitations based on their choices.


10. "Does this make them so different that they dont deserve the same rights as you and me ??"

No. I accept limitations on my freedom based on my choices. They must also.

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 09.06.2005, 5:25am link
Sierra

the fuss on assisted suicide is bullshit. If both parties agree then it should be acceptable. These right-to-live people need a good slap. Just look at that Terry Scvaio (or woteva) case, brain dead for 7yrs but wanted to keep her alive unnaturally using machine against her wishes stating peoples right to live and not to interfere with gods work etc. Forgive me if im wrong but werent we interfering with 'gods' work when we put someone on a life support machine or perform surgery or something like that. To be honest Id rather die than live as a vegetable.

why should there be limitations on freedom. I agree that we cant be free to do whatever we want, killing people without any reprocutions (technically that isnt free either as if murder was legal everyone would be living in fear), but for things that do not effect other people such as gay marriages, then why should we not allow it? there is no just reasoning for this except other people feeling disgust for gays.

anal and oral sex are normal there are plenty of people that do these. Whos to say what is and what isnt normal, there are many different cultures with many different ways of life, all with different definitions of 'normal'. Just because you dont do it doesnt mean that it isnt 'normal', but it also doesnt mean youre not 'normal'.

as for contraceptives - people still use these products out of free will to get a desired effect therefor using them is unnatural as it induces and unnatural effect.




e_d

your pathetic, if you want a discussion grow up first.
Im not going to waste my time on you.
Dodge , 09.06.2005, 1:07pm link
e_d

seems to me you keep quoting a lot of British scientists to 'prove' your point about evolution - but aren't all Brits, like Fred Hoyle, alcoholics whose mumblings don't make sense?

Sierra

maybe you should round up all the gays and then stick them in the middle east so your bombs kill them too, you hate mongering, bigoted fascist

Tim

Number of the Beast is a fantastic album, but personally I have always liked Powerslave more
bogue , 09.06.2005, 2:09pm link
i think this was mentioned previously by CJ but i would like to back it up. if like E_D says, evolution is stupid, then why (especially in british schools) science including the evolution theory is taught more than religious education? in my brothers school they don't teach RE because everyone believes its a waste of time. Lets just agree that religion causes mor problems than it solves. In my opinion religion is a comfort blanket for thick people who can't work out the hard answers in life and so believe a mythical being that controls everything!!!
uk girl , 09.06.2005, 8:50pm link
oh and Bogue, not all brits are alcoholics, i don't know anyone who is! i am a typical student however, so i do go out every friday/saturday, but i don't always get drunk! american wanker
uk girl , 09.06.2005, 9:06pm link
uk girl, you have misunderstood Bogue, he was merely regurgitating (in a sceptical manner) that which e_d has been spouting for a long time.

And Sierra, I still don't understand your opposition to homosexuality. It will not bring about a moral collapse of society, it's simply how some people are.

For example, in the armies of Ancient Greece, they often had units of homosexuals fighting together with their lovers! This didn't bring about the collapse of the city states, that was our friends the Romans. Incidentally, Julius Caesar himself was rumoured to be having a same-sex relationship with a foreign dignitary.

So you see, homosexuality is not a new or present threat. The greatest threat to society is bigots and ignorami. And yes, it may be "useless" in terms of furthering the genetic advancement of the human race, but really, I like to think people are free to do more than simply existing to further their own existence.
Latin_lover [Email], 09.06.2005, 9:46pm link
Oh, and don't sompare gay rights movements to NAMBLA NAMBLA is flawed because of its breaking of the age-limit laws. These are in place for a good reason, to prevent irresponsible sex among young people, reducing HIV/AIDS cases, and reducing teenage pregnacies which place a strain both on the individual and the state. (While I acknowledge that NAMBLA is unlikely to cause any pregnancies, I still think people should be made to wait until a responsible age so they can make these decisions with a proper degree of thought.)
Latin_lover [Email], 09.06.2005, 9:55pm link
Hey UK girl, drunk. Are you back from "Hen" night where you your friends get plastered every week?
Down a dozen Kilkennys?
BRITS ARE DRUNKS.
eternal damnation , 09.06.2005, 11:56pm link
Latin,

RE: “And Sierra, I still don't understand your opposition to homosexuality. It will not bring about a moral collapse of society, it's simply how some people are.”

Who cares if you understand it. I don’t understand how some people could have voted for John Kerry or believe in the necessity of a monarchy, but just because I don’t understand it does not automatically mean their opinion is invalid.

RE: “For example, in the armies of Ancient Greece, they often had units of homosexuals fighting together with their lovers!”

Wouldn’t you love to have been there for that? I imagine a whole lot of squealing and carrying on and not much fighting. Everybody looking at everyone elses legs, ass and wondering who “looked the best for the battle”

RE: “Incidentally, Julius Caesar himself was rumoured to be having a same-sex relationship with a foreign dignitary.”

Well, when we have definitive proof one way or the other we can discuss it.

RE: “So you see, homosexuality is not a new or present threat.”

Never said it was new or a threat.

RE: “ The greatest threat to society is bigots and ignorami. And yes, it may be "useless" in terms of furthering the genetic advancement of the human race, but really, I like to think people are free to do more than simply existing to further their own existence.”

Don’t quite understand that last sentence, but you can “like to think” anything you like. Personally I see no reason to elevate oddball sexual practices to a recognized “lifestyle”.

Some things change the character or society. In the US some want to give drivers licenses to illegal aliens. Of all the BULLSHIT…..

There is no god.

D
Sierra , 10.06.2005, 12:40am link
Tim,
somewhere in Time is better Iron Maiden CD. You still can't sing like Bruce Dickinson so stop trying.
Sierra is not a bigoted fascist. He's one of us, and makes perfect sense. Right on Sierra, let the UK alki have it.
eternal damnation , 10.06.2005, 12:52am link
Actually, the homosexuals were amongst the most respected and feared on the battlefield, as they would fight and die tirelessly rather than betray the pride of their lover. Andmy point about Julius Caesar was not just that he himself may have been gay, but simply that the Roman people did not make a big deal out of (or at least, no more that would come with a common affair in those days).

And actually, you have inplied homosexuality is a threat- a threat to moral standards of out society.
Latin_lover [Email], 10.06.2005, 8:42am link
All Maiden CDs are awesome, but for the full effect you really have to see them live. They are without doubt the best live band I have ever seen.
redfred [Home], 10.06.2005, 12:54pm link
I wish I'd seen them c. 1985 (i.e. Live after Death era) when they were probably at their best - and the albums up until then were better than the ones after (IMO).

I've said all I can about the gay issue - I guess that my idea of utopia is rather different to Sierra's.
Tim [Home], 10.06.2005, 3:32pm link
uk_girl

sorry, you seem to have got the wrong end of the stick re the brits/alcoholics thing (as latin lover mentioned, thanks). I am british, not an alcoholic, nor is anyone i know either, but e_d seems to have decided that we all are for some reason (see his various posts), so i was trying to see if he could see the absurdity of his rantings in that a lot of the scientists he quotes to 'prove' his point are brits and therefore, in his view of the world, are alcoholics.

Of course deep reflection on what he says is not one of e_d's strong points.

and Tim, live after death, now there's an album - i agree that seeing them at this time would have been fantastic. I did get to see IM a couple of times in the late eighties, after 7th son was released and they were excellent, but to see them around the mid eighties would have been something else...
bogue , 11.06.2005, 6:14am link
bogue, go back and drink some more "old speckled hens". Not all the scientists I've been quoting are Brits.

Make sure Tim gets home safely. Those tube trains don't have toilets.
ETERNAL_DAMANTION , 13.06.2005, 2:07am link
e_d

I wish I could, but very difficult to find in Tokyo so I'll have to make do with Asahi.

Also did you know: Alcoholics Anonymous was founded about 30 years ago by a guy from New York and a guy from Ohio so tell me, which country has the problem...?
bogue , 13.06.2005, 8:04am link
thats ok bogue, sorry bout that. E_D, no-one in their right mind drinks old speckled hen unless their over 70, and "kilkennys" im guessing is irish because i've never heard of it! and thirdly a "hen" night iv'e never been on because im too young to no anyone that has got married! i recommend you do some research about british nights out, because you are obviosly very deluded!!!
uk girl , 13.06.2005, 10:28am link
just got back from the download festival 2005, i saw Black Sabbath, they were amazing. Ozzy was a hell of a lot better than Bruce, with Iron Maiden and Children if Bodom being the best live performances ive seen.
Dodge , 13.06.2005, 5:05pm link
Hi Dodge,

I've seen Sabbath 3 times, twice with Dio, in October 1980 with Blue Oyster Cult, at Joe Louis Arena in Detroit (the Black and Blue Tour), in August of 1982 at Toronto's Canadian National Exhibition and with Ozzy during the Reunion tour in February of 1999 at Toronto's Skydome. Sabbath has been my favourite band since I was 10 years old. I never had a chance to see them with Ozzy in the 70's, but was ecstatic when the Reunion Tour happened. Ozzy has always been amazing. I saw him on July 24th, 1981 in London, Ontario, Canada, my hometown, with a crowd of 3500 or so, with the amazing Randy Rhoads on guitar and 1982, after Rhoads died, in Toronto as well.

I saw Iron Maiden in 1981 when they backed up Judas Priest at Cobo Hall in Detroit, and again at Toronto's Maple Leaf Gardens on November 30th of 1984 with Twisted Sister backing them up (Ticket price at the time $17.50, I still have the ticket stub, had almost 200 stubs but most got ruined when my basement flooded in 1990). Maiden was incredible at the time. I remember after the concert a bunch of Fundies passing out some kind of "evils of Heavy Metal" Jack Chick-like tracts afterwards. It was too funny looking back, I wish I'd kept their silly propaganda, I remember it told me I was going to hell, for Christ was coming back soon as the end times were here. 21 years later, no end times and still no Christ. I guess another biblical prophecy not happening, who'd have thought?

<E_D mode on>And E_D, Stryper sucks cock. Are you a better musician than any of the members of Maiden? When you have the talent of Iron Maiden and sell as many albums as they have, and receive as many platinum and gold records, we'll listen to your critiques of metal, otherwise shut the fuck up about a subject you know fuck all about, CHUMP.<E_D mode off>

AA
AccursedAtheist , 13.06.2005, 6:42pm link
you lucky bastard, ive only seen maiden, priest and sabbath once, although maiden are at the leeds festival this year so i think im going for that. A band that i really want to see is AC-DC, we need more classic bands like this touring. The "spreading the desease" line-up for anthrax has reformed and they were at donnington, i cant wait for them to begin touring the uk, aswell as slayer, they rule, seen them 3 times last year, best band ever !!


just ignore e_d, he has nothing relevant to contribute and just tries to take the piss out of other people to hide his failings.
Dodge , 13.06.2005, 11:17pm link
AA, your a piece of garbage.
STRYPER RULES, they can contend with any Heavy Metal band.
Metallica is a better band. When you sell as many records as they do, you intellectually, and psychologically challenged moron.

EVOLUTION IS DEAD.

SLAYER IS A GARBAGE BAND. ONLY PEOPLE WHO LISTEN TO THEM ARE DRUG ADDICTS LIKE YOU.
eternal_damnation , 13.06.2005, 11:57pm link
DODGE, GO BACK TO THE PUB AT PICCADILLY CIRCUS AND DOWN SOME MORE GUINNESS. YOU HAVEN'T HAD ENOUGH. BRING THAT DRUG ADDICT, AA WITH YOU.
UK GIRL SHOULD BE EASY AFTER 10 BEERS.

AA, DON'T DRINK AND POST. STOP SMOKING CRACK LIKE YOU DO AT THE CONCERTS.
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 13.06.2005, 11:59pm link
WE ARE THE SOLDIERS UNDER GOD'S COMMAND.
WE WIN WITHOUT SIN, IT'S NOT BY OUR MIGHT.

WE ARE FIGHTING ALL THE SIN, AND THE GOOD BOOK, SAYS WE WILL WIN.

KEEP THAT IN MIND, TIM,
WE WILL WIN
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 14.06.2005, 12:02am link
Hi Dodge,

AC-DC are awesome in concert, the first time I saw them was in June of 1979 in Toronto, Canada just before my 18th birthday with Bon Scott, they played fucking hard then, really raw, Bon was great live. The second time I saw them was here in London, Canada, in 1980 just after Bon's death. Our shitty stadium at the time had a capacity of only 3500 or so but 6000 fans were there. At that time for some strange reason, AC-DC sold more records per capita in the London, Canada area than anywhere else worldwide. They rocked, five fucking encores, probably the best concert I and a bunch of others ever saw in the the old arena. I wish I could've seen them two years ago in Toronto for the SARS benefit concert(500,000 people). Hey, I don't worry about E_D I think he makes for great entertainment, and in person I bet he's the kind of person I'd like to go hunting with <evil grin>.

Speaking of Eternally_Dumbwitted, E_D I actually agree with you, Metallica (seen them twice) is a better band than Maiden, I've not said otherwise. I especially like Metallica's anti-fundamentalist lyrics in Leper Messiah not to mention their awesome sound. As for drinking, can't touch the shit since it'd kill me, never tried crack, no cigarettes in 5 years nor touched a joint in over 20, and I still don't hallucinate about a big bad imaginary god as you do. Go figure. Stryper still sucks, unless your a 14 year-old baptist girl from Texas, no matter how many times you post their so-way-cool deep lyrics. <cynic mode on>Now pass me that crack pipe you Bee-yatch E_D I need to take the edge off of this meth.<cynic mode off>

"I see faith in your eyes
Never you hear the discouraging lies
I hear faith in your cries
Broken is the promise, betrayal
The healing hand held back by the deepened nail

Follow the god that failed."

~Metallica~

AA
AccursedAtheist , 14.06.2005, 7:13am link
ahaha e_d metallica are a pile of shite. They havent released a good album, since the black album in 1990 (except for s+m which is a live album so doesnt really count). They also dont perform well live, ive seen them live twice and both times they were pretty poor. On one of them Lars couldnt even be arsed so they had to recruit other drummers like Joey Jordison and Dave Lambardo to do a 50 mins set out of the allotted 2hrs.

SLAYER ARE GODS. they are the one of the greatest bands ever, you cant deny this when they've been around for 20yrs and are still as big as ever. They'll have more fans than any of your stryper stuff will ever have. There the definition of hardcore metal.

Picadilly Circus is in London, and im in Manchester so u got the wrong place, sort ure geography out retard, and i dont even like guinness.
What do you drink then e_d?

lyrics dont make the band good, i like christian metal stuff such as nightwish and living sacrifice, but i dont pay attention to whatever bullshit their spreading.
Dodge , 14.06.2005, 4:02pm link
E_D you should change your name to 'eternally demented'. AND WHAT'S WITH THE CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!!! Is your Caps Lock stuck?
'Soldiers under god's command'??????? E_D, you are truly sick, sick, sick, (and perverted)! And lost. And a bloody wanker.
PA , 15.06.2005, 11:59am link
Hey you Brits!!! Try alittle King Crimson, the original Heavy Metal Band!!! and Micheal Giles, one of the best Drummers ever!!!
MAD MONK , 16.06.2005, 2:27am link
hey im back! ah, yes. e_d is spreading the love that is christianity the only way his tiny little mand can. hatred and screaming like and autistic child. very effective.

and for a dead theory, evolution seems to be accepted world wide by many people (and i mean the majority) please list your proof for your flawed ideas on how we were made of mud.

and the joke of the century is the blindfold called chrisitanity. sucks for them. i just cut eye holes in mine.

i just had to come back from a camping trip in a car for five hours listening to the chrisitan rock channel. i'm so happy i was asleep.

e_d is a representation of what christianity has to offer. ask yourself: is it really worth listening to brainwashed homicidal misanthropes like e_d?

e_d, not you or me or anyone on this site is deserving of an eternity of paradise or an eternity of hell.

i will not bow before a women-hating child-beating emotionally controlled lying ego-freak.

finally back, CJ
CJ , 16.06.2005, 9:05pm link
DISTURBED RULES!!!!

DOWN WITH THE SICKNESS.
ETERNAL_DAMNATION , 17.06.2005, 2:35am link
wtf?
CJ , 17.06.2005, 5:26am link
CHRISTIANITY IS GROWING FASTER THAN YOU THINK CJ. CHECK YOUR STATS.
BIG WORDS FOR A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT.
IF YOU ARE REPRESENTATION OF ATHEISM, THEN ATHEISM IS DEAD.
YOU OFFER NOTHING, NO HOPE, NO SALVATION AND NO FUTURE. JESUS OFFERS A LOT MORE.
READ YOUR BIBLE.
ETERNAL_DAMANTION , 18.06.2005, 1:29am link
last i checked chrisitanity has been decreasing in northern america...

and if you're a representation of "god" then i can see why your numbers a re dwindling. i wouldn't want to follow a god when his followers area as mature as you.

and i can't read my bible. i threw it in the trash weeks ago while cleaning my room. considdering all the bloodshed and violence it has brought, it seemed like a fitting end.
CJ , 19.06.2005, 4:14am link
Hey E_D, PROOF THAT STRYPER SUCKS:

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=37259


Priceless interview with self admitted no talent bassist of Stryper, Tim Gaines. Check out these quotes:

"I am not allowed the freedom to even think for myself,"
(Just like anyone afflicted with the god belief system.The voices say do this!)

Or this gem:"Most of the time for me I feel very limited as to what I can play in heavy metal"
(You said it yourself Timmy, limited)

And again:
"Someone else dictates to me how and what I am supposed to play."
(Would that someone be god?WWJPlay?)

Or best of all:"I have to lip synch to sampled vocals."

The comments after the interview are funny as hell, I especially like the one from 'mywar138' it says:
"I talked to God last night and he said Stryper sucks."
Or Kull's:
"It doesn't take that much talent to play in strypper.

PERIOD."

And E_D you said this:"they can contend with any Heavy Metal band."
Really, lip-synching, sampled vocals, etc. and you post that Stryper can contend with the likes of Maiden, Judas Priest, Slayer, and especially the Gods of metal Black Sabbath. Bullshit. Many basement metal bands are more talented than your heroes. Survival of the favoured and the most adaptable even occurs in the world of heavy metal. Evolution marches on... unlike those soldiers of god.
Maiden Rules, Sabbath Rules, and Stryper still sucks.


AA
AccursedAtheist , 19.06.2005, 7:07am link
AA,
MAIDEN, PRIEST AND SABBATH ARE WIMP BANDS COMPARED TO SOUL FLY.

SOUL FLY DEDICATES HIS CD TO GOD.

STRYPER CAN CONTEND WITH ANY HEAVY METAL BAND OUT THERE.

SOUL FLY, DISTURBED RULE!!!

BACK TO THE PRIMITIVE,

DOWN WITH THE SICKNESS
ETERNAL DAMANTION , 19.06.2005, 11:39pm link
Soulfly are an amazing band, i agree there. Not a big fan of disturbed though. Maiden, Sabbath and Priest are no wimps, its just a different style of metal.
Dodge , 20.06.2005, 1:10am link
Now I don't mind Disturbed, I actually rather like them, Donnegan's guitar work is not bad at all, you can tell especially on 'Down with the Sickness' that no doubt with the drop D tuning and weird syncopation he's listened to Sabbath's 'Children of the Grave', although Iommi tunes way, way down to C# or maybe even C for it.

I'll always like my old school metal, but I still try to listen to newer stuff too, but E_D, Stryper just don't cut it with me, I guess I just see through their 'god gimmick', I always felt that they were just an average 'hair metal' band using that as a marketing tool and now they're stuck with it. Maybe it's because I remember them dressed in their stupid yellow and black spandex, looking like goofy dorks, in their early videos. Hell, they're probably the reason I haven't watched music videos since the mid 80's. 'Hair metal' bands just never cut it for me, shit like Motley Crue, Poison, Ratt, they're all cast from the same mould, not that much talent (way more than I'll ever have though, I started playing guitar about two years ago, I'm not very good at it, but I do suck less at it than I did two years ago) just what the corporate media can market.

Soulfly, I haven't heard, so I can't say if I 'd like them or not. How about you guys recommend something from them, and I'll have a listen. I like heavy shit but not super fast, so recommend something they do that kicks but with technique. I don't really give a shit if they're religious or not, the music will speak for itself. It's like Black Sabbath, their music was called satanic, they were accused of being devil worshippers, all kinds of shit like that from the fundamental religious folks when they first came out. But their music wasn't 'evil', it may sound dark and sombre, but their lyrics were suprisingly almost christian rockish.You can call old school metal wimps if you want E-D, but they did it all first. Like Dodge said, it's a different kind of metal, but it's influencing a whole new generation of musicians.

Sabbath= first true metal band, influenced EVERY other metal band...PERIOD. They are the gods of metal, all others bow to them.

MotorHead=first successful speed metal band. Death-metal, hardcore, etc. all spin offs from Lenny and company.

Judas Priest=first 'anthem' metal band. Raise your fists and banged your head at a concert? Probably cause JP led the way.

Epic rockers Deep Purple are playing here in London, Canada tomorrow night.I'd like to have seen them when they were filling the big stadiums with the Mark II line-up (with Ritchie Blackmore, whom I saw when he played in Rainbow). I saw their playlist, I'm suprised that 'Child in Time' isn't on it. I like that song best of all the songs they do.

Dodge, it's too bad that Metallica sucked when you saw them, the times I saw them, they put on good solid 2 hour plus shows. To me, Master of Puppets is their peak, though, I'll agree there hasn't been the same 'tone' or 'presence' I guess I'd call it, in the band since Cliff died, but they've had a few moments. I liked that they payed homage to their influences in the Garage Inc. disks, I thought they did a good job, but the BoB CEE-gar 'Turn the Page' cover thing was a little offbeat.
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AccursedAtheist , 20.06.2005, 6:12am link
i recommend the album "primitive" by soulfly, thats my favourite. I love the songs, "bring it", "boom" and "terrorist". The singer from soulfly used to be in sepultura and nailbomb, so they sound a lot like that, but they are "more in touch" with their brazilian roots so there is a lot of tribal sounds in their music, it works really well with the heavy guitars.

Motorhead are amazing, i saw them at the download festival aswell. Lemmy is still an amazing performer. There touring with In Flames later this year so i may have to go see them again :)
Dodge , 20.06.2005, 2:10pm link
The album primitive is very good and I recommend it.
I like Motley Crue, Quiet Riot, Iron Maiden (brave new world), metallica (re-load), megadeth etc..
I'm an 80's boy and grew up in the best decade in history.
Long live the 80's

.
ETERNAL DAMANTION , 21.06.2005, 2:13am link
I know I'm taking a rather unpopular line here, but fuck metal! I don't like it. My favourite bands are Radiohead, the Beatles, the Pixies, Nirvana, Travis (I know, what wuss) and the Verve. Other types of music all seem so... predictable. Perhaps I'm being narrow-minded, but there you have it.
Latin_lover [Email], 21.06.2005, 5:30pm link
Hey dodge and e_d, thanks for the soulfly recommendations. Boom kicks, and I like the tune prophecy too.
I found out that they do a Black Sabbath cover(Under the Sun) on their Soulfly 3 European disc. Like I said, old school is influencing a whole new generation of musicians.

Don't get me wrong e_d 80's metal is probably the best out there,that's when my album collection peaked (I had about 800 metal albums, until my basement flooded in 1989, some were saved luckily). It's just that some of the bands seemed to follow a kind of cookie cutter coporate clone 'formula'. Crue and quiet riot (ever listen to Riot?) had some happening tunes back in the day, and I agree the 80's rocked.

L_L, it's okay not to like metal. I feel the same way about the bands you mention, except Nirvana, and much of general popular music in general. Hell, back in the 70's I used to listen to punk, but I don't now for the same reason you say, it became predictable. Basically later in life we listen to stuff we were influenced by when we were 18 to 25 years old. Or so it seems to me and many people I know. But once in a while I still wrap my ears around other stuff.
AccursedAtheist , 22.06.2005, 7:18am link
np, spread the word of metal. Save the brainwashed masses from the god-awful rap and hip-hop crap thats forced down our throats by radio stations and tv.
Dodge , 22.06.2005, 3:51pm link
I would agree. Rap and Hip Hop are absolute excrement, but metal is not the answer! Ok, it's not "bad" (in the way J-kwon, Usher, Snoop Dogg, Britney Spears, etc. are), but it's so... empty. I believe in the supremacy of rock, alternative and Britpop (that's Radiohead and Blur, not Fame Academy). Still, could be worse. Could be "Disturbed". "Oh-wa-ah-ah-ah", they said. "What rubbish", I replied.
Latin_lover [Email], 22.06.2005, 10:19pm link
AHAHAHA Fame Academy and Pop Idol are as bad as hip hop. More corporate bullcrap being forced down our throats, i cant stand it.
I am a metal fan but enjoy the ocasional rock/alternative band, ive been listening to starsailor alot recently.

What the music scene needs is more artists and less people winging it on other peoples success. Almost all of the major pop artists do not write their own songs, showing to me that they have absolutely no talent. ALso its all about image, females strip to their underwear to try to sell records, does this not seem wrong to anyone else? if the music was good enough then this shouldnt be needed.
Just look at the rap industry, most of it is fueled by the same producers giving out the same sound and the rap artists themselves have to get other more famous rappers in to do duets (not really duets are they but i dont know the word) to help promote themselves.

What i really hate is that new J-Lo song where all she does is wail, that makes my head hurt and sends me into a rage everytime i hear it.
Also whats funny is Akon with the chipmonk voice in his song, im ashamed that got to no.1 in the UK. Whats even worse is that mother-fucking annoying son-of-a-bitch frog ring tone got to the top spot aswell. God knows who bought that ringtone, let alone the single ! If i hear anyone with that im going to rip their head off and shit down their neck.

sorry for the swearing but it had to be said.
Dodge , 23.06.2005, 12:22am link
I agree with you Dodge about the talent thing. It's all about image. It's what the corporate boardrooms can sell to stupified masses.

But it's been that way for a long time, it's what sells, not what's talented. Take a gimmick, dress it up, pimp it to the public, and rake in the dough. Sell 'em what that don't want or need, consumers are what drive the economy. It's not just music that is affected by this attitude. Consumer goods (cell phones with cameras, MP3 players - of course with shitty or non-existant reception many times), automobiles (with built-in pay for use location systems ie. GM's stupid OnStar, 'oh how could we live without it?'- haven't people ever heard of a fucking roadmap or stopping and asking for directions), popular literature (look at how small the science section is at most bookstores in relation to say the self-help new-age wacko section)... most of it we don't need, but there's a whole world of credit-card wielding, popular media-brainwashed, resource-wasting, skepticism-deficient, spending automatons out there waiting to hear the next talent-challenged, dress-up-a-pig and market it 'Idol' to be put in the spotlight. If we as a society take the handlers and the marketers out of the equation, by at least refusing to allow them to decide for us, the talent should come flooding back. If only...




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AccursedAtheist , 23.06.2005, 5:35pm link
Nice wee rant about crass consumerism there.
Latin_lover [Email], 23.06.2005, 9:13pm link
yeah, alot of thsoe abnds have real talent. i particularly like metallica, but i've never been a real metal fan. the russian exchange student, however annoying and cruel he was to MY computer (107 viruses! what the fuck man?) he did introduce me to a rather itneresting abnd from finland or something called Nightwish. rock, metal, gothic, and the interesting part is the lead singer is a women. not like screaming your ass off, but kinda opera-ish, but without the excessive wailing like you have an orange forced down your ear.

looks at dodge: O_o-! lol!
CJ , 23.06.2005, 9:52pm link
Sorry L_L, I do have a thing about the wastefullness of consumerism and how its tentacles invade our economies, causing wastes of energy, resources, money, etc. I'm not against artists (or anyone) making money, it's just if society would pick up a few critical thinking skills, then the consumers should decide what they want, instead of being hand fed useless goods, services and songs.

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AccursedAtheist , 25.06.2005, 5:39am link
i am smarter than fred hoyle
kevin , 04.07.2005, 5:28pm link
Mr.Sierra,
What you mean by saying that there is no god? To accept or to deny something one should know what is that he is referring to. What is god in your definition so that others can also understand the meaning of the word god as understood by you.
M , 17.07.2005, 3:57pm link
i think you're missing something here, Sierra does not bow before, kiss ass, or obey any god the world can provide him or he can provide himself. he does not need one, it's not required to have one, and with gods comes trouble and pitiful attempts to justify it.

he probably doesn't beleive in a supreme intelligence determining the fate of the universe through lies and deception, or a physical being with immense power, as this "god" i'll call it can't even solve the problems he made without wasting half the worlds population at a time, or at least the stories say, because to quote sierra 'there is no god'. gods are figments of the human immagination made by gullible people to pin the blame on and explain things they are to lazy to understand or try to find out.

simple enough?
CJ , 18.07.2005, 4:52am link
louise

hey i don't really belive in god but i think everyone needs something to belive in. life with nothing to holed on to or to have faith in sames meaningless if you agree let me know. Religion isn't total bullshit.
lu lu , 23.09.2005, 11:51am link

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